Success

I really don't get the angst of the KC fans on this one. My team just won 3 titles, my QB is universally regarded as the best & some are even saying GOAT, things are looking good for the upcoming season. They're on top of the football world, and have been for years. But a few fans on a Bills message board like Allen better, and that simply doesn't sit right. They've gotta have it ALL.

I'll put it this way, Billl: I haven't seen a fan on either side try to claim that Allen doesn't do more for his team than Mahomes does for his team. On here, we're generally pulling our hair out, because Allen CARRIES this team. As I've said, I don't see the big defensive plays we've had in the playoff matchups, especially compared to KC. For the one incredible game, every single person agrees that Allen's D let him down. And I'd argue that they let him down this past January, also. I like Allen's skillset more, I like his attitude more, and he's just more exciting to watch. So, my mind is unlikely to change. I'd encourage you to enjoy all of the titles and all of the accolades for Mahomes, rather than concern yourself with trying to change the mind of one Bills fan, on a message board for Bills fans. The vast majority of football fans think Mahomes is better. I don't think I'd care if I was a KC fan about a few fans in Buffalo.

I think Brady IS the GOAT. But I don't think he'd have more titles than Manning if they switched places. I agree w/ you that Manning wouldn't have 7 - but I'd put his total at around 5 if he had Brady's circumstances.

Patriots fans used to move the goalposts all the time in the Manning/Brady debate. For a long time, it was the head-to-head - as though they were playing each other in tennis. Then, Manning ended up w/ the better record over Brady in the AFCCG. But, by then, Brady had won so many that it was a moot point. Now, Pats fans hype Manning up bigtime, after calling him a one & done choker for 2 decades - because it helps Brady's legacy if he had to get past another all-time great to get his titles. I happen to agree w/ consensus on that one - that Brady is a better overall QB than Manning. Titles do have something to do w/ that; at a certain point, it reaches a critical mass. But Brady DID have the best coach of all time, while Manning played for 5 different coaches, only one of whom I would consider near the top tier. That's a pretty big differentiator. If you look at title-winning teams, there are generally great coaches hoisting those trophies w/ the top players. It's much more rare that average coaches are carried to titles by great stars (it happens, but not much).

Brady still favored? Gotta disagree there. That means the greatest coach in the game ends up with 3 rings, with a QB who was pretty close to top of the league in terms of talent.

Okay. I'd still take Allen over Mahomes. Not that Mahomes is a bad QB or anything.

So, from what I can tell - you're arguing on one thread that McDermott is a middlin' coach at best, which apparently makes no difference to the success of the team compared to KC w/ Reid? The difference between Allen and Mahomes in the playoff game this year was that the Bills defense - sans their LB's and most of the secondary - gave no resistance whatsoever. The disparity in average yards gained on 1st down wasn't because Mahomes is so wildly better than Allen. And the Bills were still a missed FG from tying that game at the end. If you & others just want to gauge by end results, with literally nothing else factored in - I can't convince you, or make any good argument that can counter that within that limited parameter.

After reading through the thread, it seems to shake out this way: If you believe football to be a sport of individual achievement - say, tennis, golf, maybe the high jump - you think Mahomes is clearly better, because of what KC has accomplished. If, however, you see football as a team game, where coaches, key contributions from other players, and injuries can have an impact - you might think Allen is as good, or even better. I'd conclude w/ the following: I can name a few players on KC's defense who had impact/game-changing plays in this past year's playoff match-up, including the pressure from Chris Jones at the end, which I believe changed the outcome. Can anyone name one such play from a Bills defender? I'd count the goal-line fumble as a bit flukey, and balanced by the terrible coaching decision to fake the punt. I can't think of another single play anyone on the Bills defense made that game.

Well, you got the "paired w/ a HoF coach" right. But, I guess we're to conclude that makes no difference in a QB or team's success.

You lost me at "win/loss is a qb stat." That ain't football. If it's the perception of some football fans or pundits, they're not being logical about the sport. It's an emotional reaction, which I understand many have, but it's meaningless in a debate of "better QB," unless either QB clearly outperformed the other in the games.

As though its apples to apples? I thought hard about it. I'm good. Thanks, though.

What is this supposed to teach us?

How so? Mahomes has more TD's, because he has had more playoff games. Otherwise, they've both been pretty great. Are you talking about team accomplishments like advancing further?

Ah, yes - the ol' "Dilfer is better than (insert every QB who was clearly better but didn't win a SB)" argument. It's not golf.

I mean, you asked. KC fans were over the moon that Scantling came through - and they were great catches. Your narratives aren't working, which is why you keep changing them. But it's fine. You think Mahomes is a better QB. I disagree w/ that. The world will keep on turning.

Scantling had 2 catches of about 30 yards each that were probably his best catches of the season. If Diggs hauls in a perfect 60 yarder, KC probably doesn't repeat. Mahomes isn't better than Allen, imo. He has had better teams, better coaching, and better circumstances. And better luck.

Because KC's receivers actually played a lot better during the game. The guys who were dropping passes all year made spectacular catches. Meanwhile, Diggs & others were dropping dimes.

So, it's not a team game after all. Who knew?

These debates always sound like people are comparing golfers, or tennis players. Most agree that Reid is the best coach in the league. Few have McDermott in the top tier. The discussion ends there for rational fans. But, perception is everything in football. Mahomes has titles, Josh doesn't. So Mahomes is obviously way better. Gosh - that really does sound like it would tough to deal with.

Three is a reason three have been no threepeats. It won't be the Chiefs this year. I'm picking Buffalo. Ravens possibly, but I think this could be the year we finally stay kinda healthy and make that deep run.

This is on sort of a different track - but one of my son's first years in little league, the coach had him batting 9th in the order for a few weeks. He had shown some flashes, so the coach took a chance and moved him up to the clean-up spot. It was the last inning, the team was down by 1, another player was on base, and he hit a home run to win the game. Watching my other son catch the last out for a win was also big. In terms of sports viewing, watching our playoff game against the Pats few years ago was tops.

I mean, what are you basing that on? He's a boomer, for sure. How are his directional punts? How is he when it comes to pinning teams inside the 20?

A big leg isn't everything for a punter. Some scouts didn't like him because his kicks would outdistance the coverage. He's also just a boomer, from what I understand - not good at directional or pinning inside the 20. And yes, I'm rationalizing. It works.

Trevor "plays his best only against Buffalo" Lawrence? Good. Let another AFC team waste some money.

Watching the Celtics on this run, it has occurred to me that they had to EARN this year, by having the same kinds of repetitive failures as the Bills have had. They got scars along the way, but without those hardships and disappointments, they wouldn't be where they are right now. They didn't have a consistent nemesis like the Bills have had - but other teams have. Jordan's Bulls, Manning's Colts. The question is, will the Bills' previous failures harden them, and make them more determined? Or will they wilt under the weight of their history? I'd go for "wilting" if not for Josh Allen. Allen is among the toughest QB's I've ever seen, physically and mentally. He will lead this team over the KC hump, and to a title.