cba fan

Is anyone really paying attetion here.? Pats and Saints wanted to trade Butler for Cooks straight up, but since Butler had not signed his tender they could not include him. Pats instead gave Saints their 1st rnd pick #32,replacing Butler in the trade and establishing what they think Butler is worth. That is the pick the Pats want back. If it was as simple as you say in your estimation Saints can decide to give whatever 1st rounder they want like the lesser valued #32 1st rounder to Pats if they do not match, then Butler would have already have signed Saints offer sheet and Saints would have given it to Pats, and Pats would have announced they will not match and get the 32 pick. Done deal. So tell me how this works. Why do Saints get to decide, why can't Pats decide? see my logic? It has to be in cba that original team 1st rounder is what is in play here. for ex if Browns have 1st pick in a draft and also picks #29 30 31 and 32. Does this mean they can sign 4 players with 1st round tenders and ship off only the 29 30 31 and 32 for ea player? While keeping their original #1 pick? And who decides which pick goes to which team? It can only be original team pick in play. or as I just found out in the links below, if possible if you traded away your original pick previously and acquired a beter pick in 1st round NFL would likely allow you to use that pick to sign a 1st rnd offer sheet player. PS This is all I can find on this subject http://sports.stackexchange.com/questions/532/what-are-the-rules-for-nfl-restricted-free-agents-that-have-a-first-round-tender https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf article 9 sec 3

That is why Butler is in a corner. After what they told him and then did opposite by signing Gilmore why would Butler believe them. If he signs the tender he is stuck with NE for 3.9 mil or about 1/3 his market value and Pats have been dicks in this case not talking about it and Bellycheat getting snarky. Although to be fair about it all he is subject to tender due to cba so his market value is not like a Gilmore UFA.

So in this scenario the QB drafted would be wasted on PS and some other team would sign him off the PS.

Cheating because the first round tender would have been a lie. This reduced Butlers market value. If the two teams had a secret deal in place that is cheating also. This would be precedent setting and first time this has happened. NFLPA will be all over this if it happens the way it is portrayed. Why would a team agree to take less? If the offer sheet is signed and Pats do not match,WHY would Pats then listen to Saints calling them to offer less than the offer sheet signing requires Saints to give Pats? pick#11 It would be like Chargers signing Groy to offer sheet and then calling Bills and asking them to not match and accept a 7th round pick for Groy instead of the 5th rounder Bills are required to receive if they do not match. I don't think this is cba legal. Saints must be asking Cheats to sign Butler themselves and then trade him back to Saints for less than the #11 pick this year. Again this is not fair to Butler. Once Pats sign him they could refuse to trade him to Saints. They have lied to Butler already with Gilmore deal, why would Butler believe them now? Tell me why you do not think this is cheating?

Yes it is a 4 yr deal avg 6.25 mill a yr., pricey but not as bad as OP mistakenly stated 3 yrs 25 mill which would have been insane. 1st yr 3.9 mill then avg 7.03 for 3 yrs.

Latest talk is Saints have a deal in place and want to negotiate with Pats on compensation. That they wish to give Pats the later 1st rounder (#32)Pats had just given them for Cooks. Internet says they can not negotiate until Offer sheet is signed. This is stupid. Why would Pats then negotiate for less compensation when they automatically get Saints #11 pick if they do not match the offer sheet? Saints lose all leverage once they get Butler to sign offer sheet and they submit to league. All leverage shifts to Pats once offer sheet is signed and we all know how that goes. These internet sites are either inaccurate or crazy. http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2017/03/patriots_could_still_trade_mal.html If this report is true this sounds like cheating the procedure if Pats and Saints have a secret agreement that would effectively change(reduce) the compensation for 1st round tender. NFLPA would and should take a dim view of this as it lessens players value. IE: if Pats had put a 2nd or 3rd round tender on Butler he would already be a Saint at higher salary or Pats would match. This negotiation period was really intended for an ex like Groy signing offer sheet with Chargers for 5th round compensation. After offer sheet was signed teams had 5 days to talk and Chargers could have improved the compensation in return for Bills agreeing to not match. Like also agreeing to swap positions in a later round or something small as not likely anyone was giving up a 4th rounder for Groy.

Same Dr that gave advice to Stevie Johnson how to rehab groins, McCoy how to rehab hamstrings, and, did Watkin's ankle, Byrd's foot, and Marrone's brain.

two words: DEAD!! CAP!!

No Butler is not going for a #1. Saints are negotiating a deal with Butler and if they agree will then approach pats for a trade. Likely a 3rd.

This is interesting. Never knew teams had to submit offers to NFLPA. Why? Why purpose does this serve? Team can change offer at any time. How does this work. Every 5 min in the negotiation they must fax the numbers as they change to NFLPA?? Do the two parties agree to a contract and then they both send the contract to NFLPA and it is only an offer if only one sends it in and the other side backs out?? Can players about to visit a team get the numbers the team has offered other players?? Anyone know?

Heavy sigh.....If they cut him next yr it is only 1 mill dead cap. vs if he does well, then in in your scenario where you have valued him at a 2nd round tender he would command a lot more next yr to retain. Probably 3.5 to 4 mill per yr. I am not risking that for a couple hundred thousand. This guy is trending up and could be a player and at worst is good depth for 2 yrs. Whaley hit a home run here.

Great that is a plus for comp picks.

He can be molded with that score. Like a blank canvas.

great points. I guess we all go on league the rankings which are done by experts watching tape.

Ok here we go. I have explained this many times to BBMB members so I will give it a go here also. These BBMB users start this by saying "why do you care how much(insert player name here) makes? It's not your money" NOBODY cares how much of Pegs money goes to players. NOBOBY cares how much a player makes. All we care about is how much cap space the player takes up. All we care about his how mistaken allocation of salary cap space prevents the team from getting better by reducing its ability to sign more and better players. Think of a team full of Aaron Maybins preventing signings of actual players who can play. a exaggerated example is Browns this yr. They amassed so much extra cap space they did an NBA style trade for Brock from Texans and gained valuable draft picks in the process.

There really is no offer. He gets 6 million from Jets regardless if he plays or not, unless a team agrees to pay him more than 6 million. The offer is either vet min with no bonus more than 80 K. or a deal worth more than 6 million. Is he worth more than 6 mill for 1 yr??

So he went from refusing to play for less than 8 million to willing to play for vet min. After tt Rex Ryan at Daytona. He lost 10 lbs and feels the hunger. And is ready to go to Steelers. Yeah sure. Sounds like a Bernie Madoff deal. Likley he wants 10 million dollars of likely to be earned incentives. I would sign him to vet min of 1.015 million/yr which as a 10 yr vet would only be a 600,00 cap hit for Bills. Then let him try to be a safety, if all else fails keep him on roster all yr as a backup and then don't resign him next yr so he counts for a comp pick. As Revis was a 1st rnd pick. Trick with this is all bonus like sign/workout.....etc etc can not be more than 80,000. So no funny business with incentives and bonuses. On second thought if he washes out he likely is retired and no comp pick then. I would probably just pass.

I don't believe there is a 'right of first refusal". All I can find is any team can sign any PS player with no compensation going to original team if they sign him to 53 man roster.

Not going to happen. Gilmore already is a 13 mill cap eating space nugget. Pats don't usually pay full market once, let alone twice.

TBD

To be fair there has been a fair amount of talk from NFL they wish to do away with compensatory draft picks. This will probably put a thousand people out of work and lower Microsoft's stock price as that computer(that no one understands or can explain how they award these picks other than NE gets a couple good ones every yr..) will be shut down.

Solid guy but not a game changer except one game vs Seahawks. Will miss his great run blocking and steady play.

This is good news for Bills. Pats just sunk 15 million a yr in cap space for a slightly overdrafted(by just 1 round), above avg cover guy, and poor tackler. Good luck. I like Gilmore but only at about half of what he will be taking up in cap space now.

Christie played in a different "Era" literally. The big video and scoreboards, corner clubs, the restrooms towers, flags, Global warming. All those likely changed the wind patters in the stadium since Christie was killing it. Christie could have contacted Carp and worked on what ever he wanted whenever he felt like it, so stop with the crying. You just look silly. Christie post is knocking Carp for not being receptive to Christie. There is no proof that Whaley was lying to him.