Rochesterfan

Is any part of that the fact the Browns were willing to trade a 2nd and a 3rd for AJ less than 6 months before? More draft capital than they traded for TT. I do not really care - I think similar to here - TT will be hard to beat out because he makes so few mistakes - so he does not lose games. The Browns will be hard pressed next year to remove that from the lineup to replace with a rookie. The worst part for the Browns is that I do not think the GM feels Hue is the long term answer and would have replaced him if the owner did not open his mouth; therefore I think that you are teaching Mayfield a system and preparing him and next year a new coaching system come in to replace that and try to design a system around his college strengths that he has started to grow out of. It will be an interesting couple of years for the Browns.

Agreed - would not pay for the Buffalo News team, but Fairburn, Vogl, Cover 1 and Kris Baker pushed it over the top. All aboard -

I think this will be very interesting because a ton of people complained about the subscription model with the Buffalo News. If the Athletic can succeed on that model - which it has elsewhere- then I think it shows more about the staff at TBN like Bucky and Sully not connecting with the modern fans. The line-up the Athletic is putting out seems like a great group with excellent Bills and Sabres coverage from some great analysts (with the possible exception of thin skinned TG), but it should blow away what the TBN was doing and was much more in line with what the Fans have asked about in TBN threads before. I think it will go to show how important the staff is and the fact that guys like Bucky and Sully lasted as long as they did was more harmful than helpful to the TBN long term.

Great except that defense held the Giants to 10 points at halftime and had a Safety. If Dickerson was complaining about the defense in that game - he needed to look in the mirror because the offense forgot to show up after blowing up the previous game. If he complained the next year - he might have a point as Washington just man handled the Bills, but he also had a special place in that because although they were told to provide no bulletin board material - he went out and got quoted making all the pig noises and insulting the Washington OL - which was seen as a huge issue and lead to his firing. He did have good sources because he had built some friends on the team, but those started evaporating as the offense and defensive coaches and front office starting changing, but he kept acting like he had sources.

Thats Bull - he started shortly after being fired after the 2nd Super Bowl. The Bills were great through the early part - he was negative because the Bills fired his butt after the Redskin Super Bowl because he could not keep his mouth shut. He was spiteful that he was scapegoated because of his loud mouth and brash talk - went to Radio and essentially destroyed any remaining bonds with that staff. The man knew his stuff, but he did not know when to tone it down or rein it in.

His takes were legendary, but typically for the wrong reason. He was a complete blowhard that chose to purposely go against what the Bills were doing out of spite. I could not stand him then when he knew what they were doing - I doubt I would listen now when he is just another person. I would rather listen to old takes of Art Wander rather than the “coach”.

I agree - I also think timing had a lot to do with the struggles he had. He came from a timing offense and got a lot of throws just after the breaks and as he was running free. TT was late on throws and I think they never got into a good rhythm- that then lead to him getting into his own head and created stone hands. Mix it all of that with his injury and I think it was just really bad. I don’t know what he will give us, but I suspect he and a bunch of these young guys mixed with the new QB and offense are going to surprise some people.

Seems like both are making a lot of plays - nothing would shock me at this point, but I am really starting to like what I hear.

Cool - I have never seen that - good to know

I think a lot like coaching - training tends to lag behind because people do what they have always done. When TO broke his leg and started using hyperbaric chamber and that was like witchcraft at the time even though it was used to aid recovery outside the NFL. Suddenly NFL teams like the Cowboys were investing in that. It would not surprise me if TB12 has some great ideas, but it has also been shown to be full of crap before. I think he mixes some fresh ideas with some risky alternatives and for some people that works and for others it does not. I also think he is way ahead what NFL teams are doing and things like yoga on their days off would help the players more than some of the excessive lifting, but much like ballet in the 80’s - even though that helps balance - it is not manly enough for these players.

Would not mind #1, but do NOT want the network halftime show. Those are a total waste and I skip them at home - rather see more Red Zone Action or highlights from our game. I dislike the idea of doing celebrations pregame. Halftime is not bad, but there is a ton going on pre-game and I feel like you will be just trying to fit it in with no good time for it. I would like to see more replays on the screens and less volume on some of the things like the train horn. More scores and more fantasy numbers/highlights. I don’t mind some of the ads, but the volume control is all over - many times you can’t hear anything and then something blasts so loud that you think you are going deaf. More security patrolling the lots and better control over some of the rowdier groups both in and out of stadium. I would also love to see more checkpoints around the stadium stopping the drunk drivers. Bigger family areas with with restrictions on drinking and in a better location than the end zone corner. I hate that I can’t bring my daughter and son and actually enjoy the game. Even the preseason kids days had 2 drunk idiots fighting in our section and swearing at each other until the cops broke it up and dragged them away, but then others just start. A designated area for Uber/Lyft to come in and pick people up or drop them off. Provide some access to help get drunk people home.

I agree fully with with you on Moss - there was enough issues on the field - his attitude in Oakland - basically admitting that he was not trying because he was not enjoying himself and his 2nd time in Minn basically throwing the coach under the bus and adopting a him or me attitude that cost both of them their jobs. Overall that attitude was still better than TO’s and with similar numbers shows that the voters rightly took that into account with TO. I think Moss also had a lot more off the field issues than TO again showing the voters did not take that stuff into account - which is consistent with what they have said. I personally do not think either of them were worthy of being 1st ballot HOFs, but Moss had less baggage on the field and in that regards was more worthy to me. Maybe it is for the best- we will see how disrespectful and disruptive he is as we approach the day.

Flamboyant? The guy was suspended on 3 different teams for on the field actions. It is the writers responsibility to take that into account. I think they should be transparent, but to me a 1st ballot HOFer needs not only to be a great player, but he should be the best of the best in most accounts. The fact that teams like Philadelphia signed him, but then due to TO’s actions suspended him for 1/2 a season and cut him - is a huge sign of the type of player he was. He fought teammates, called out Jeff Garcia and insinuated he was gay, he called out McNabb on multiple occasions, got into a fist fight with Hugh Douglas, the list goes on and on. All of that is legitimate actions that should be taken into account when deciding on his worthiness. To me they do not exclude you, but they also make it so that if you do not want to vote for him in year 1 it is acceptable. Then for him to act like a petulant child after lobbying for the honor just speaks to his character. This is a celebration of the honor and it is a celebration of all of the HOF players - he is dishonoring the ceremony ad his classmates. It is all about TO.

Definitely- I think Baseball is even worse than Football for these types of votes, but if you are going to be on the committee- then be open about it. You have some writers that treat it like a joke - I believe it was Lebatard that was willing to allow a fan to fill out his Hall of Fame ballot. That is the kind of junk that ruins the integrity of the vote.

None - other than can you imagine the backlash in today’s twitterverse. I think they they should all be required to provide the exact card they are voting from and then be asked to account for their decisions. I believe that many of these media members that are on good terms with each other make agreements to help so and so this year and I will help your guy next year. Ideally they would make it more transparent and allow scrutiny of the process, but alas they are mostly a bunch of keyboard jockeys that prefer to spew venom than answer for their decision- that is my opinion.

Agreed - I have heard the media guys talk while the Bills were getting inducted and it covered more than just the on the field stuff. I do not remember ever hearing about things away from the game being talked about, but things like player interactions, media interactions, along with the playmaking. My guess is that individual voters take each thing into consideration and some parts weigh more heavily on some voters than others. May not be totally fair, but the voters are human and if you treat them like dirt - that colors their opinion long term. He was also suspended by multiple teams for conduct detrimental to the team. He missed over 1/2 a season due to team initiated suspensions because of that attitude. That has to say something to these guys that are making a decision - a team like Philadelphia decide after 2 years into a five year deal (with half of one of those seasons spent on the suspended list due to comments and fighting team leaders) that the team was better off without him. All of those things need to and should be taken into account.

It was not money as much as teams that would take him. He was technically traded from SF to Philadelphia after his agent screwed up. In SF - he got in repeated arguments with teammates and basically told the media he though Jeff Garcia was gay. Not exactly a great teammate. Philidelphia he got a 5 year contract - went to the SuperBowl in year 1, but called out his QB and effectively ended his Philly career. Year 2 got in a fist fight with Hugh Douglas and was suspended and cut following the season - again a great teammate. His one real FA push got him to Dallas for 3 years after which he was released. Then 1 year in Buffalo and 1 year in Cincinnati and neither team nor any other teams wanted him really at that point. He repeatedly had issues with teammates and other teams - including His celebrations in Dallas as a 49er and the sharpie incident, the football as a camera, etc. those do not endear you to other fan bases and media to help your induction chances. He was suspended multiple times in his careers for conduct detrimental to the team and for his actions on the field - all of which should be taken into account when voting for a HOF candidate. His numbers make him worthy - his actions and antics deem him questionable and in the end it took a couple of years, but they decided he was worthy and once again his antics make the media question that decision.

I disagree - I think these voters understand they are making decisions that reflect on the legacy of the player and what a huge honor it is. TO deserves to get in, but if he is going to once again disrespect the process, the other classmates, and HOF by not showing up and calling them out again - then give the spot to someone that will appreciate it because there are other worthy candidates that will have to wait. I can totally understand his position and I am guessing that it impacted others previously and that he is not alone in wishing he could take back his vote. I think the HOF got it right - we are going to ignore this and we will celebrate those that attend. I also think someone like Moss or Irving will get in TO’s ear and tell him to get his butt there as this is special and in the end he will show up.

This simply is not true - the OP was off on 300 yard games as proven multiple times. I cannot tell if the OP was just bad at research as it was a quick find or trolling people.

I agree - this is exactly what I was thinking.

It is not about who would attend- it was about as they are deciding on these guys - they each get one person that stands up in the little room and puts together a promo of why this guy is deserving. Typically it is a local sports media figure that presents all of his positive stats and the things he did as a player, awards, etc. It is a huge deal and they talked about Larry Felser doing this for the 90’s Bills and the way he presented to the voters and the way he humanized the players helped get them votes. TO had a contentious relationship with the media - I am sure someone put together his numbers and made a case, but if that person was not as passionate as other - it could cost him votes.

I think this is a huge point - if you have listened in the past - these guys have a surrogate that stands up and goes over their accomplishments and what makes them Hall of Fame worthy. TO was a selfish prick as a player - so who is standing up making that passionate plea to get him elected. Stats are are a huge part, but it also matters how you were respected as a player and how your play impacted others on the field. A first ballot HOF not only had to be great, but needs great support from others to get the ground swell of support going. The NFL also limits the number of entries and sometimes as in TO’s case there are other worthy people at your position that deserve to be in also. This is TO’s decision and I respect that, but it also totally reinforces the me-ness he displayed as a player and why he did not have the respect as a player he could have gotten.

It depends - if you really believe Dennison was the biggest reason the offense was bad last year - then if Daboll is a better coach - even with a few weaker players - he should easily be able to get more out of the offense. If Dennison was only part of the problem and TT was another big piece - both were replaced - so again you have Daboll and a new QB that is a question mark. The WRs are bad, but I don’t think they are worse than our starting WRs last year to me they are a wash. The interesting piece will be OLine - it looks weaker on paper, but in the past Groy replaced Wood with no drop off. So you have either Groy or Bodine at center - maybe a slight drop off. The big loss is Cogs and the Bills obviously did not grade him as high as places like PFF. I expect a small step back as the new guys work to function as a unit, but I think a good game plan can counter most of that. I expect realistically to see the Bills offense much as it has the last 3 years struggling at times and making plays at times - the hope is they can make plays when they need to to win a few close games.

Agree 100% - He played hard and well here - I do not like him, but I can wish him the best in terms of recovery.

That is bull - it is all in the relationships- Metta was well connected with Rex in NY and that even followed when he came here - Metta had several Bills things break under Rex - FA and other moves including changes to the coaching staff. Vic broke the news about Rex being fired 1 week before it finally happened. Long before any national guys even had a sniff. Mary Kay Cabbott in Cleveland is Schefters go to source for most things Cleveland. She typically gets the story and then Schefter puts it out to the masses via the ESPN engine. John Kryk from Toronto- Mike Rodak- Tim Graham all have had several stories over the last couple of years. Matthew Fairburn out of Syracuse is another guy that provides a ton of info and has broken news. The issue is unless you are following those guys on Twitter - you almost always get the story out of ESPN or CBS first because those sites are where the masses are looking.