transplantbillsfan

Wait. If you want to include sacks in this discussion, that's fine. Those were passing plays, you're right. Let's include the other passing plays: the scrambles. The plays where the QB is pressured, escapes pressure, and gains positive yardage instead of negative yardage. Happydays recently posted a football outsiders study that examined all passing plays. Including sacks and scrambles. On such plays, the bills had of the second highest DVOA in the NFL, behind only Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers. I can tell you from having done my own scrupulous research, Taylor gained 8 yards per scramble in 2016. Those are passing plays. I agree. Just like sacks are. The problem is that people want to talk about sacks as the negative without talking about scrambles as the positive. And when Taylor scrambles, he gained more yards per scramble and all but the top five QBs in the NFL in the category of YPA. What you're doing here is cherry picking.

Is "Tyrod" the 2015 or 2016 "Tyrod"?

If his play changes in what way? The bills were at the bottom of the NFL and "passing offense" essentially because they pass the ball less than anyone else. And I know above you guys were pointing to examples like the Falcons and chargers and Steelers having a "balanced" attack, but the bills were absolutely an incredibly dominant as a run offense in 2016. The head coach was a ground and pound head coach. The approach was clearly to stick to the ground. There is only one football. The team was an incredibly effective running offense last year. That was a reflection of the offensive approach. The 2016 Falcons were a rarity and having an elite passing and rushing offense. I don't know where Teeflebees was getting his numbers above but the Chargers and Steelers certainly weren't really high in the ranks in terms of both passing and rushing offenses. The Chargers were at the bottom of the league is rushing, actually. There is only one football. There are only so many snaps in a game. What you want is much more passing. Shady is one of the best backs in the NFL. It's kind a hard not to give him the ball, isn't it? I think Taylor is going to get more passes this year and we are going to see what he does with 30 to 35 passing attempts per game. But it's really just in the offensive approach.

I think you've missed my point.

I bumped it for Thurm so he doesn't lose track of something that seems so easily found

Just so you don't forget, since I know you're in a unique time zone, i'll do you a favor and bump this post so you are sure to see it. Remember, you said 50, just give me 10 names that fit that criteria should be easy, right?

Are you really feigning ignorance now? I know that you read the post. But since you need a reminder: -Rode the bench almost exclusively for the entirety of their rookie contract (4 years) -Given the opportunity to start in year five after earning the starting job -After earning the starting job, plays a significant number of games at "NFL starting QB" level Almost everyone of those guys on your "list" got a significant number of snaps by year five. And very few of them even ever played at "starting QB level" for an extended period of time the way that Taylor did over the span of 29 games. That was the criteria I originally set forth. And I set it forward because of your arbitrary "hasn't proven self as franchise QB by sixth year" rather than fifth, or fourth, etc. My point was simply to establish how unique Taylor's case is. That was the criteria you responded that there were at least 50 other guys in the NFL who met it. So I ask again, name 10...

What a joke! Steve Young started zero games and his fifth year and threw 92 total passes. That year established him as a franchise QB?!?! Are you nuts? You're being stubbornly ridiculous.

Wow... this might be the biggest pile of crap I have ever read from you. Not even going to try to put some lipstick on this pig? You can't separate his running from the whole QB thing because it's obviously part of it, much like it was/is for Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck, Marcus Mariota, etc. The escapability and scrambling and running are all part of the whole QB thing for Taylor. It factors in. You don't separate it as you just did. And, I'm sorry, full stop? What you say here is speculative at best. The fact of the matter is that McDermott not only decided to keep Taylor but also passed up opportunities to address the QB position all the way until the team's 2nd 5th round pick. Say there weren't feasible options if you like, but you're reaching and creating your own narrative because it suits you... or because you lost your keys Go back to dressing the pigs up a little... makes it more presentable Since you brought this up, do you remember that question I asked you recently about quarterbacks that fit certain criteria that Taylor fits? Remember how you said there were about 50 guys? I asked you to come back with a list of 10. I'm still waiting... And don't try to make up some new criteria. Find the post, it was in one of our recent interactions; you likely ignored it because you knew you were actually mistaken but find it impossible to admit fault. Find the criteria that you yourself said about 50 other quarterbacks fall into. Name 10 of them...

Okay... so your definition of franchise QB has nothing to do with level of play, it's purely about tenure...? Rojah:thumbsup:

Dak and Jameis on that list already? Seriously? Seems like a real prisoner of the moment mentality to me. Kinda like back in 2012-2013 when everyone was calling Kaepernick and RG3 and Tannehill franchise and even elite QBs. And that talk was widespread. wait it out. Despite what you may have a label to me, I don't think Taylor is a franchise QB, much less an elite one. But it's still too early to know for sure. He's done some things and has some tools that indicate he could to be, which is a sentiment apparently shared by McDermitt and OBD. I think the most outlandish belief on this message board is that Taylor is no better than a good backup.

At this point in time he's still auditioning. It's that simple. Minds (other than random message board guys mind) have not been made up yet. 2018 will go along way to determine what he is. What we do know is this: he played well enough in 2015 and 2016 to earn another year of audition. Taylor is in the middle of his career. Right now, he just looks like an average QB who will never be elite but will never be horrible either. Maybe 2018 changes the narrative. I'm eager to see it unfold

Kind of a reactionary definition, isn't it? So let's go through this logic: you're a bills fan as we all are and all of us are looking for a franchise QB, correct? If that's the case, you would be content (by your definition) with Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, or Jay Cutler (if we could coerce him out of retirement) if we could acquire them and hand them the reins to the franchise for the next several years over Taylor without hesitation?

We don't know if Taylor is above average, really good, below average or what, yet. In 2015, at worst, he was above average. I think he was really good. Really good being a top 10 to 12 QB. In 2016, he was average to below average. I'd say he was in the 15 to 20 range, despite the fact that there are some metrics like total QBR and PFF that put him in the top 10. But the problem is that in 2016 there were a ton of variables that came into play and may have seriously affected his play. Robert Woods and Sammy Watkins missed a combined 11 games. Rex was a disaster. There was a change in OC after week two. The list goes on. We need to find out what he is. Personally, I don't think he's any worse than an NFL starting QB, but I don't know if he's the answer for the franchise. This year should answer that question.

Except that the defenses valleys were much lower than Taylor's valleys. When you give up three different 200 yard rushing games, it's virtually inevitable you've lost three games. The defense was abysmal and multiple games in 2016. Taylor was bad against the ravens and the Bengals. Those three games with the 200 yard rusher's are mostly on the defense. Not entirely, but mostly. I think you could throw in there also the first Jets game where the defense allowed Ryan Fitzpatrick to pass for almost 400 yards. And then the defense blows a 15 point lead in the second half of the Raiders game allowing the Raiders offense to score and score and score and score. And while those three and outs that came on consecutive drives in the third quarter of the game didn't help, the defense literally had no excuse for not being rested on the first two Raiders touchdowns of the third-quarter. They had an entire half to rest, and then the Raiders had the ball for less than a minute before the bills offense put us ahead by 15 points. When the defense was good, they were really good. But it's hilarious that people dismiss Taylor's victory against the patriots because of who is starting QB on the other team. I'm sorry, were the patriots missing any of their defense? If that game should be dismissed for anyone in terms of praise, it's for the defense. The defense when it was bad, it was abysmal. Taylor wasn't. Like it or not, QBs who don't turn the ball over really aren't ever abysmal.

Buh Bye then. Got to say, I completely disagree. Year after year after year we've had that same middle of the road record. So putting your money on it happening again is probably a decent bet simply because it's the safe one. But I have a pretty sneaky feeling that this year is going to surprise a lot of people in a good way. Playoffs, here we come! ...too bad you'll only be watching the highlights

He's a backup... who cares?

You aren't actually Noogie75, are you? Step away from the ledge!!!

Someone find Noogie75 and lock him in a rubber room! He's officially on suicide watch!

Enjoy being a Chargers fan now.

The problem, ironically, is similar to the issue with Taylor. When the defense was good, they were quite good. Against the Bengals, the defense bailed out the offense the whole game. I think that's about the only time that happened all year. However, the lows of the defense were much lower than Taylor's lows. The Bills defense arguably single-handedly lost four games in 2016. When you allow 200 yard rushers, you are most certainly are not going to win. And the bills allowed and historic three of them, two of those to the same player. On top of that, for whatever you want to say about Taylor not playing well in the second half, the defense just had to be decent against the Raiders for us to win. But they weren't, they fell apart. I should probably throw the first Jets game and allowing Ryan Fitzpatrick a career game as the fifth, but the offense couldn't stay on the field despite scoring points and racking up yards. Taylor had lows in 2016 for sure. Baltimore, the Bengals, most of the Pittsburgh game, 2nd half of the Raiders, etc. But his lows simply weren't as low as the bottom of the defensive lows.

Are you trying to start something?

Sooo... how good do these things need to be for you? You realize Taylor is already 14th in 3rd down % and 6th in RZ Passer Rating, right? I think the fact that people are so dismissive of the 2017 QB draft class is kind of funny. Weren't three QBs drafted in the first round? Didn't all three QBs have their respective teams trade up to draft them? The bills had an opportunity to draft two of those three quarterbacks. They didn't. I understand that no one wants to see that as any kind of faith and Taylor because of the draft picks they acquired for next year. But if anything, it was a team demonstrating both faith in Taylor while also hedging their bets and understanding that the NFL is a win now league and Taylor isn't proven enough to hold onto after this year if he fails. That doesn't mean anything other than the fact that all QBs fail at some point in their career mainly and largely if you're thinking about team success. Philip Rivers has been for years. Drew Brees. Andrew luck. Joe Flacco. Cam Newton. But all of those guys are proven to varying degrees. Taylor hasn't built up the cache to be even just average this year and stick around. He's going to likely need a top 10-12 year to stick around. Just watch next year turn into the same "week QB class" we had this year. Too funny

That Taylor throws less to the middle of them other QBs in the NFL is pretty much fact. That it's his weakness in the sense that he's just not good at doing it is, on the other hand, debatable. In a lot of ways I think it was offense of design. When Taylor through to the middle especially in 2016, he excelled. I'm really looking forward to an offense that focuses more on those short crossing routes.

Well... evidently Taylor's one of the biggest reasons he's interested. So, there's that