transplantbillsfan

Funny, I've seen posters referring to you as the board Troll. I'm not one to label like that, but your simple, narrow-minded posts probably lend credence to that belief. Serves me right for spending the time responding thoughtfully to you... It's your job to prove your wild generalization, not mine to disprove it. As I challenged another poster recently, go watch every play from every QB in the NFL and chart the % of plays at least 1WR is "wide open" and the QB doesn't throw it to him. Do that and it's fair to talk about whether TT is as bad at this as you believe he is. I know it's going to take time. Making strong, well-reasoned arguments often take time. Good thing it's the offseason. Your move, Skippy... Wow... you're just sad... But then again, you serve as a good way to wean off the countless trolls over at BBMB. Going cold turkey would be tough... so thanks for being here!

Sorry but no. Find a comparative study. Or do one yourself. You guys act like Taylor missed wide open WRs he was supposed to throw to based on his reads more than any other QB in the NFL. The very first play of the season is one of those plays is a good example. Woods, who ended up streaking wide open to the left of Taylor, was on a side of the field Taylor never looked because his first or second read was open on the opposite side of the field. I hope you're not pretending you've watched the All-22 of every play of every QB in the NFL? Or that you understand where a QB is supposed to go on every play? Or that a bird's eye view from the comfort of your living room is the same as the perspective on the field with bullets flying?

These are the kinds of baseless, denegrating comments that are really annoying.

That's fine if that's how you want to define it. Though it's incredibly weird to call stats a QB racks up in a come from behind victory due to a successful onside kick "garbage time" stats. But if this is the case you're opening Pandora's box because now you need to go out and analyze the defensive schemes because, according to Thurm (and you, since you're agreeing with him), it's the fact that the defense is in a certain scheme more than anything else. Pretty humorous, actually. Frank Reich's wildcard comeback oughtta be labeled "The Greatest Garbage Time Comeback in NFL History."

How about macadamia nuts?

1000 to 1, huh? http://archive.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html?m=1 I'm not a betting man, if I go to Vegas would 1000 to 1 odds be the equivalent of 20%? Because that's the chance of successful recovery of an onside kick when the other team is expecting it. And so by your definition, Tom Brady's 90+ yards, 70+% completion %, and 2 passing TDs in the last 2 minutes of week 14 of 2013 when the Patriots got the ball with 1:38 left in the 4th were "garbage time" despite the fact that the Pats won...? Really a head-scratcher there, Thurm...

I 100% agree Taylor was not good in that game (though unlike the Cincinnati and Bengals games there were a handful of excellent plays he made), but calling a game that the Bills had a chance to drive down and tie (or win) with over a minute remaining in the game if they converted an onside kick full of garbage time is misguided. There's a reason a game is 48 minutes. Not 40 or 42 or 45. In 2013 the Patriots were down the entire game against the Browns by multiple scores... all the way until the last 4 minutes of the game when the Patriots scored and converted an onside kick. The Patriots went on to win. Say all you want about Brady being the GOAT, except there would have been no chance to win that game without the conversion. Blowouts that end with lopsided scores have garbage time. But there's no garbage time in a game like that. That's what we love about the NFL and why the players keep playing... anything can happen.

A bye week to brood over a heartbreaker of a prime time loss might have played a part.

Ravens game and the Cincinnati game were the worst whole games from Taylor this year for sure and probably in all the games I've seen him play as a Bill. We went 1-1 in those 2 games.

PS: Thanks for the thread and the link Erik! I'm a TWD newbie but I actually read and found these articles before joining. I like being able to talk to the author himself. So, question... How high do you think Taylor's ceiling is and what do you realistically think it will take to help him reach that ceiling and play closer to it with more consistency? See, this is what I think, too. But some here think exactly the opposite. Don't get it...

I think it's weird the way some people lump Taylor in with Kaepernick or RG3 as athletes who play QB and aren't comfortable being traditional pocket passers. Taylor has work to do for sure, but he sure looks like a "pass first" guy to me. And when he has a clean pocket, it sure looks like he can be a traditional pocket passer, too.

I don't get it... Agreed Why? Honestly, Taylor's "lowlights" aren't nearly as bad as most other NFL QBs. His biggest thing is he needs to get more consistent. Don't mind him... Thurm's always Mr Cranky Pants who thinks he knows everything but can't see the Forest for the trees.

I'll take your "Huh?" and raise you one

Hindsight is 20/20. It's absolutely hilarious the universal hype both of those guys got back in 2012 constantly being touted as the future of the NFL and as Elite players. Very few (if any) were predicting a precipitous decline for either guy because they were already "Elite." Now look at all the backtracking. Same thing but in the opposite trajectory for Kirk Cousins. The NFL is so year to year and unpredictable. That's why I think everyone who makes such factual predictions are so funny. You don't know. None of us do. In fact, I'll make a prediction just for fun that I think will further demonstrate how fickle the NFL is if it happens. It's only a prediction, not me prophesizing: Matt Ryan is going to struggle next year to a degree where questions will rise as to whether he really deserves the "Elite" moniker he was given this year or if he was just elevated significantly in Kyle Shanahan's system.

Holy crap if this is true it'd be amazing!!! The Bills are starting to resemble a real NFL team again... getting more excited about the draft

Actually no. I don't want or need supportive responses. I want responses that provide substance to counter my own points. Stats. Plays. Specific reasoning from beginning to end. RF and Larry are 2 I appreciate (I suppose I could say that more often) because I feel like they at least do the specific reasoning thing consistently. You and Bangarang are capable but often choose the simple responses. Thurm has some good stuff mixed in with a lot of arrogance that seems to lead him down the path of tunnel vision and getting lost in convoluted and contradictory arguments and arbitrary criteria. Everyone agreeing would be boring. I don't take things personal until they become personal. Why does it seem like so many make everything personal.

I don't really know what to say... I'm not the only one keeping this thread going, ya know. What exactly is a message board for? So you would prefer when I post anything to just make vague baseless statements? It's odd to me that the posters most clearly sick of my threads (and this is the first one I have ever started over here and the last for a good while) like you, RF, Crusher and Thurm are the ones who so often find your way into them and become the most vocal. I ignore all the threads I don't want to read. And maybe you think my actions do otherwise (that's a you thing) but I didn't call a single poster out by name in the OP.

Dude... there's a difference between an opinion and a prediction stated as fact that doesn't happen or statement of fact that's not true and can actually be proven false. In the first few of these all I did was point out the fallacious previous prediction of an arrogant poster who publicly stated how gleefully he would shoot down every pro-Taylor poster once he was inevitably cut (that was multiple posts as he's going back and forth with me... like I said, I'm guilty of the back and forth), point out a blatantly incorrect stat, which last I checked is not an opinion. Another thread of the dialogue is with a poster regarding a subject last year that was put to bed by actual facts he continues to ignore. The very last one is me simply responding to a poster who stated a bunch of opinions directly as facts by saying opinions aren't facts. I read most, not all. I click through and see that a lot of these are me responding to your own posts... do you have an issue with civil disagreement? If you're the same poster by the same name over at that other board we still reside at, you seem overly sensitive over here.

Am I trasplatted? If so, can you point out where I come out and say someone's opinion is flat out wrong? I admit that I greet hostility with my own hostility... of that I'm guilty. But can you point to a post where I just literally say someone's opinion is wrong? Much appreciated!

Oh...forgot to look at your profile. You're just another BBMB refugee. I don't feel so bad anymore. I thought you were a TWD vet and I stepped on your toes. Carry on...

Sorry. I truly am... Is there another thread here like this one? I've seen a ton of Taylor threads just scrolling through pages... so the multiple threads on one topic being frowned upon is either crap or a scare tactic for newbies. I was hesitant to actually create this thread... that's why I took my time to make it as comprehensive as possible...

What are you even talking about? No, one game doesn't outweigh 4. I didn't ever say it did. I've told you time after time after time why I start Taylor threads. QB is about all I enjoy talking about extensively. You think I'm not being objective. I say neither are you. Objectivity is impossible in this case. I'm a lot more objective than some, though, unless you think I made up the research... I didn't.

Well, I agree, but you're also the one who asked to rank them in order of importance... and it sure seemed like passing yards was #1 on your list based on the nature of the question. So, what's the order for you...? For me, I think this argument boils down to efficiency vs volume. In an ideal world, you have both probably. But for me efficiency trumps volume any day of the week. Now cross reference Taylor's bad games with bad games of all other NFL QBs... How low is his floor compared to say Jay Cutler or Alex Smith?

This is a fun exercise so I'll take a stab at it. Can we just preface this with expectations that these "most important stats" are for starting QBs, obviously? Not some WR who throws 7 passes on the season: #1- TD/Turnover ratio #2- YPT (Yards Per Touch) #3- completion % #4- total yards Something like that I'd say.

Why does it have to be that you're either "gushing over" Taylor or you think he sucks? You've had your mind made up on Taylor for a long time and you and many of your ilk view any changes in perspective on him as a bad thing. I'm sorry, this is the real world, not politics. If I want to change my perspective after seeing Taylor play probably his best game on the football field in his last game from "I don't think Taylor's maybe an NFL starter, but not good enough" after what was a bad 4 game stretch to "I still don't think Taylor's our long term answer, but he can capably be our starter for the time being and has the opportunity to prove he's more, but I want Whaley & Co to draft a QB high," then I'm going to do it. You remain admirably steadfast, that's fine by me. But if you think just because I started a thread about positive areas on the field for Taylor in 2016 while stating directly in the beginning I don't think he's the long term answer and view him as a Bridge QB that I'm gushing over Taylor... then whatever...