transplantbillsfan

Yeah... that's what's going to happen when you have Sammy healthy for 12/14 games you play in 2015 vs a hobbled Sammy in only 7/15 games in 2016. Do people honestly not understand this? Taylor is not Brady. He's not going to elevate the guys around him. Those guys are incredibly rare and if that's the bar you're setting, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. But what Taylor might be (and there's evidence to support this) is a guy whose play itself will be more than adequate for a serious playoff run if he has some legitimate, healthy weapons and an above average (not Elite, but definitely above average) defense. This team has been snakebit in so many ways. Just gotta hope it stops. As I just said, everyone who has their bar set at "1st ballot HOFer" like Kelly or Brady should brace themselves for likely being disappointed for the rest of their lives. That's a mighty high bar. And it's unnecessary for it to be that high.

Clock is ticking for everyone. Clearly you don't have a clue how much longer Taylor will be in Buffalo, though. Remember how stupidly adamant you were that he'd be gone and how giddy and excited you were about insulting those of us who thought he'd be back? You can "lol" all you want about Taylor vs Wentz. Taylor outplayed Wentz in 2016, so I don't know why you would arrogantly call people out if they chose Taylor over him. Wentz might very well have an RG3 nosedive. Who knows?

I gotta say people are too quick to label players. Remember what seems like ages ago now when Ryan Tannehill and Colin Kaepernick and RG3 were constantly called "Elite" and Kirk Cousins was one of the worst QBs in football? I'm sorry, but we're too quick to put these types of labels on players. It's utterly ridiculous to do it after one year. Wentz has the potential, that doesn't mean he's going to meet it. He could bomb out like rg3 or Kaep. And the fact that Taylor has almost 2 full NFL seasons under his belt and has been at the very least a competent NFL starter indicates Taylor has more potential, too. He could improve drastically like Cousins did. In a vacuum, I take Wentz. But it's not as cut and dry as you're making it and not a quick decision.

264/415 (63.6%), 3430 yards, 8.3 YPA, 27 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 105.2 vs 248/402 (61.7%), 2628 yards, 6.5 YPA, 10 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 82.8 One of those is Taylor's numbers with a real #1 & #2 NFL WR in Watkins and Woods. The other is with one or both missing. Guess which is which... *Hint* It makes your post foolish

Saying something is a fact doesn't actually make an opinion a fact. You know that, right?

Thanks man... much appreciated! I'm really not going to start threads much at all over here since I know the general animosity some posters have towards the subject, even over here. That's why I just concentrated all my efforts into a single long thread. Any other stats I find and/or compile I'll just stick here.

Yes, it was also widely reported that the Bills would inevitably be moving on from Tyrod and finding a new QB when last season ended. How did that work out? I'm actually really surprised those guys have jobs because it's really just mostly a joke.

I do. All the time. I love it. And I do it sporadically and randomly for other NFL QBs as well because it's good to have a feel for what other NFL QBs are doing when you're arguing about your own QB. Do you?

Well, draw your own conclusions, but in the games where Taylor had both Sammy and Woods playing over 2 seasons, his stats were: 264/415 (63.6%), 3430 yards, 8.3 YPA, 27 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 105.2 vs games without at least 1 of them, his stats were: 248/402 (61.7%), 2628 yards, 6.5 YPA, 10 TDs, 6 INTs with a Passer Rating of 82.8 Almost the exact same number of attempts in 2 years with both Woods and Watkins on the field together as without. Look at the difference.

Dude, seriously? Like I said, take a breath and turn your world sideways because that's what you need to do in what you're saying here. Your obsession is the 4 yards going horizontally inside from the numbers. That was what I was talking about in the post you responded to and you turn the argument sideways as though I was talking vertically. Saying more isn't always better. You have a tendency to get lost in what you say. It's okay, it happens to me sometimes, too. I'll admit when it happens to me, though. You don't.

Thurm, on page 5 you ask why I bring up YAC. I think you need to breathe sometimes in the middle of spewing all of this out. Think about it, Taylor has the 3rd highest YPA out of all those QBs, which is calculated very simply: Total Passing yards / Total Passing attempts = YPA. With all those other QBs like Rodgers, Newton, Carr, Mariota, etc. accumulating less YPA over the middle of the field, it means that when they throw to the middle, they accumulated fewer yards than Taylor. So, logically, with Taylor's WRs getting some of the lowest YAC in the NFL, there aren't many reasonable conclusions. Either Taylor threw the ball to the deep and intermediate middle and completed his passes more frequently and efficiently in terms of the % of those total "middle" passes (behind the LOS, short, middle, and deep combined) than those other guys or the throws to the deep and intermediate middle of the field were the one area of the field where WRs got tons of YAC for Buffalo. And your focus on that middle 33.33% is comical at this point and really misses the mark if you can't provide data or any evidence whatsoever comparatively for other QBs in the NFL, not just Taylor. Considering that there's data out there for between the hashes (ESPN) and between the numbers (PFF) that demonstrate that Taylor is at the very least NFL competent throwing to the deep and intermediate middle of the field (he has a 120.4 Passer Rating and a 60.6% completion % in 2016 there, according to PFF), your obsession over the place where Taylor has a problem throwing (that fraction of the field that's excluded by PFF "inside the numbers"... those 3-4 yards your talking about) is 14% of the field. That's it. What were you saying about that 11.5625% of the field I brought up? We have evidence, across the NFL, for that 11.5625% of the field. We have tons of PFF passing charts you can easily find on the Internet that access that 47.5% of the field I referred to. Your saying Taylor's just fine throwing the ball between the hashes (which ESPN's evidence points to when you compare him with other NFL QBs) and is just fine throwing the ball inside the numbers up to about 3-4 yards (which PFF's evidence points to), but he's just absolutely terrible when throwing the football to a span of the field totaling about 7.4 yards. 14% of the field. That's your obsession. And it might not even need to be. All you gotta do is go do another study (yep, suggesting another one you'll need to do to make a complete and legitimate argument) and go out and chart every NFL QB to that "middle third" you already say you did for Taylor in 2015.

Why on earth would I do a study of something that's your own incomplete and flawed argument? It reminds me of last summer when you constantly brought up how the deep middle third of the field was a huge problem for Taylor. The central aspect of your argument was that QBs need to throw to all sides of the field evenly to become less predictable. Your argument was about frequency. I remember it very, very well. Last Summer I did the work you should have done yourself. I went across the NFL and found every passing chart I could find for ever QB I could find. Do you remember what I found? I'm not asking that as a rhetorical question, because your persistence on constantly mentioning the deep middle still tells me you just seem to block out arguments with proof that counter your own. What I found was that QBs across the NFL throw to the deep middle of the field VERY LITTLE. Like less than 10% if I remember correctly. Translation: Taylor was (and is) pretty much on par throwing the football to the deep middle portion of the field. I gave you numbers. I gave you evidence. It was stuff you should have been researching yourself because your argument was utterly incomplete without it. You ignored and continue to ignore it. That's why I'm not going to put in work for another argument your making that's utterly incomplete. Do it yourself, or understand that your argument is little more than a house of cards. ​Glad I'm the first to call you narrow-minded. Maybe tunnel-vision would be better just because of the connotations of the other. Maybe you'll broaden your perspective a bit.

You're so lazy... and wrong. Guess you won't do the thing I just requested in my edited post. Truth here Thurm is you're very narrow minded. I don't think I'm the first to say that to you. I won't be the last.

Out of everything you said, which I'll try to get to, the first is the most sad and telling statement about your approach to this Tyrod discussion. It is provable, just go watch the plays for every QB to gain the context in the same manner you did with Taylor. And do it with an objective eye, which I'll assume you had with Taylor's plays. That's going to provide the necessary context for your argument. I look forward to reading this comprehensive post from you. As to your 2nd statement, what you proved was nothing except that Taylor didn't meet your arbitrary benchmarks for throwing to the deep "middle third" of the field when, in fact, you were proven time and time again that your benchmark was wrong. QBs don't throw to the deep middle (even the middle third) of the field very often at all, and Taylor's very close to the norm for that. You think I'm wrong? Again, get some context, take some time, and go look at other QBs as points of comparison. Crusher I have to come back to this post to emphasize how barf-worthy it is. It's literally like I watched you drink someone's blood while sitting in a circle with 6 other naked dudes.

Because maybe buying things on sale for cheaper than for what they're worth is considered smart... I bought a 55' 4K 6 series Samsung TV for $470 a month ago. Literally nothing wrong with the TV, Costco just got a new shipment in so they were moving stuff out. I didn't not buy it because l figured the price was too good to be true. Sooo...is Brady only as good as his annual salary? Simpleton logic...

Jesus... idiotic and just plain sad... Ignore feature? ANYONE?!?!

So sad (and ironic)... it's clear TWD just found a new cult member in Crusher... You guys are really creepy

No. I can already see you and Thurm belly-laughing, but you guys labelled me that way because everyone needs to be somehow set in camps in your worlds. If I were a Tyrod extremist, wouldn't I be calling him our Franchise QB? Wouldn't I be out buying a Taylor jersey? I already said this about 1000 times, I was disappointed overall by Taylor in 2016 and the 4 game stretch from Cincinnati to Pittsburgh was a true low point for him. However, I really think this becomes a larger question of which is more important: how high is your ceiling or how high is your floor? What I think we're quite clear on is Taylor's floor, and although some will argue otherwise, his floor is significantly higher than many NFL QBs (yes, that does largely go back to protecting the football), but what I don't think we know for sure is what his ceiling is or (if you think games like Seattle and the 2nd Miami game are his ceiling) whether he can play more consistently to his ceiling than his floor. I don't think I'm an extremist. I just like talking football and QB is the most interesting position to me. Sorry, I don't like talking about Kickers and Kick Returners or Offensive Linemen. That's why I stay out of those threads and type out posts about our QB. I figure I just get all that out in a single post and I don't have to irritate old-timers with another thread for a long, long time.

Why? I don't know. I don't have answers for anything that happened. Neither does anyone else. I said when the season ended it was going to be one big game of chicken until someone flinches, from the moment Taylor said he would have been willing to restructure on clean-out day was. Once he said that, he lost a lot of leverage. And yeah, he talked to other teams, but we don't know anything more than that. Maybe you're right (that is, if you're one of the people here claiming you know why Taylor took less money) and Taylor found out few teams would be interested and they wouldn't offer much. Or maybe the teams interested were offering him significant money, but the teams themselves weren't teams he wanted to be with for whatever reason. Or maybe he was "going through the motions" and telling his agent to go talking to teams but make sure it gets back to Whaley that he's doing as part of that larger game of chicken. I don't know, do you? Or are you just guessing?

Oh, trolling now I see. What's the point of using logic and thought (which I did) if you aren't even going to read it? Take your own advice.

I can see this CoT thing is gonna get real old real quick. Let me ask this question since I'm new here, over at BBMB there were a bunch of posters who would just see a title or a topic and chime in with some randomly vague statement without ever even reading the post... Is that you? ... I guess I have my answer. Please read it and tell me what's convoluted about a guy who likes where he lives, likes his working situation, and understands that he'll still be making plenty of money in that working situation but will also be helping to improve it... ? Does this message board have an Ignore feature?

Oh... so you know what happened and what the motives were for all parties? Look, I'm no mind reader, but I can speak from personal experience that sometimes where you are and who you're surrounded by and working conditions matter more than the money. And I'm not talking just a few thousand dollars here or there, I'm talking about doubling your paychecks. I choose less and I'm happier for it. I'm not going to make the argument that it's obvious that Taylor took a paycut because he's a team guy, but at the same time, that's what he says: http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/09/said-buffalo-bills-transcripts-sean-mcdermott-tyrod-taylor/ Q: What convinced you restructuring was the right thing? A: Just going back and meeting with Coach McDermott, the relationship I had with Coach Rico, (Offensive Coordinator) Rick Dennison, working with them before – actually getting a chance to work with (Quarterbacks) Coach (David) Culley at the Pro Bowl, that was a quick week, but just being around those guys. Actually been up here for the two months I was here for my rehab and being in the facility every day for close to six hours and getting a chance to know the coaches and their vision for this team. Just thought moving forward, if we could work out something for both sides, it would be beneficial. This is the place to be. Like I’ve said from day one, my commitment is to this team, to this community, to do whatever it takes to get a winning tradition back and I’m still committed to doing that each and every day. Q: Did you explore other options and was it a case where you didn’t see anything financially better? A: There were a few teams out there but I mean I’m still under contract. It wasn’t like I was released or anything, so I mean I couldn’t do too much and I wasn’t looking to do that. My focus this past offseason was to get healthy first and foremost with having the surgery early in January. My sole focus was to get healthy and let my agent find a way to make things work here and we were able to get something done yesterday. I’m excited to be back. Q: You expressed some concerns and worries about your future in Buffalo after being benched in Week 17. How did you reconcile what happened with that and where you are now? A: At the time, did I know that I would be back? No. I didn’t know what the next step for me was but I’ve learned from that situation and I’ve put it behind me. It’s a new coaching staff in here. Like I said, there’s some coaches that I’ve worked with before. Got a chance to talk to Coach McDermott since his first day here and like I said, the vision that he has for this team and our conversations have been very good since day one. Like I said, I put what happened with the last week of last year’s season behind me. Was I happy about it? At the time, no. Will it still fuel me during workouts and moving forward? Yes, but ultimately I’m happy that I’m back here competing with the guys in this locker room. Q: Sitting out of practice that week and seeing how that played out, did you ever envision being where you are today? A: I didn’t sit out of practice. That was for injury reasons. But like I said, I didn’t know at the time. I don’t think anyone knew at the time. There was uncertainty as far as with what the head coaching situation would be this year coming up, there was a lot of uncertainty. I think a lot of questions were unanswered at the time and we had to see what the next step was going to be as far as coaching-wise. Like I said, once I met the coaches and seen what they were putting in, definitely a place that I wanted to be and like I said, I’m happy that I’m here. Q: After signing that contract last August, did you play this year with the thought in your mind that you might not see this thing through? How did that factor into your thinking throughout the year? A: I didn’t really focus on that. Once I signed the deal, my focus was on to do whatever it takes to help win games. Our season didn’t go as well as we would have liked it to last year. On the personal side as well, too, I could have been better. They chose to restructure – we chose to restructure – and I think moving forward as far as the team, to help bring in more pieces, it was the best thing for both sides to do. It's constantly about how excited he is to be back in Buffalo and how much he just wanted to make things work. At no point does he say he wasn't going to get much on the open market. If you want to infer that's what he means, that's fine, but your just guessing. I know in the world of modern sports where everyone just goes to the highest bidder it's virtually impossible to comprehend that some people would actually take less to help a team, but when you're talking about the amount of money Taylor is guaranteed, you're talking about a guy who is already set for life. If he's grounded (maybe he is, maybe he isn't), he understands that (maybe he does, maybe he doesn't). I don't care why he restructured. If I take him at face value, it's because he really likes Buffalo (City, team, coaches, etc.) and views it as the best fit for him, both professionally and personally. If I start making guess based off generalities about human tendencies, it's because there was some tampering going on behind the scenes with NFL GMs who were giving him and his agent a significantly lower-than-expected market value and so he tucked tail and ran back to Buffalo. I know that you think the 2nd is the obvious truth, but forgive me if I remain skeptical and continue to call people out who choose to call that unquestionable reality.

I see that this place really is pretty much BBMB 2.0. Same lunatic extremists who can't read or find the middle ground. Too bad.

It's false? Wait, so you're saying he did have his top WRs despite the fact that Woods and Watkins missed a combined 11 games this NFL season? Are you saying that Goodwin, Hunter, Powell, and Tate are his top WRs? I know you can't be saying that, because the fact that he didn't have his top WRs is 100% true. So, what you must be saying is that all those other guys were constantly open in the way true #1 and #2 WRs get open... am I right? If that's what you're saying, I think you should spend some time going and watching #1 and #2 WRs across the NFL and examine not only how they get open but the types of contested catches and plays those guys make on the NFL field. Heck, you can just examine Watkins and Woods themselves. There's a reason Taylor was significantly better as a passer in every statistical category when he had both Woods and Watkins on the field. Sure, you can point to individual plays where those other scrubs got open. But you aren't providing the context of your argument when you do that... are they getting as open as consistently as #1 and #2 WRs across the NFL? How often do those other QBs across the NFL simply not throw a pass to those guys? That's what you really need to look at. Your argument is one I've seen made by Thurm when we were over at BBMB. And it's an argument in a vacuum, with absolutely no context whatsoever. Provide the context if you want. Otherwise you're just making a claim that has little meaning. CoT'er. Cute. At least it's creative, if childish.

What are you talking about? When was Taylor available for all the other GMs around the league to go after? I winced. Taylor sucked in those games. In fact, after the Steelers game, I wanted him benched and I wanted Jones to start the rest of the season. I did all that, while also blaming the defense... I can't stand it when people think it's gotta be only one or the other.