transplantbillsfan

Top 3???? Yes. Absolutely. Probably top 2 on the Chiefs... maybe the best for that team Your honestly telling me you would take any of Jahon Dotson, JuJu Smith Schuster, Skyy Moore, Justin Watson, 2024 DeAndre Hopkins, Xavier Worthy over Khalil Shakir? There's no point in having a conversation about this if you really would swap Shakir with any of those guys right now. And like I said, I think he’s also a better Wide Receiver than Hollywood Brown.

How can you expect anyone to read beyond your 2nd sentence when this team was just 3 points away from playing in the Super Bowl??? Silly take.

You seem to base all of your evaluation on Groot on the Chiefs game. If you want to do that we should probably cut most of the defense. He was really good throughout the entirety of the season. In terms of all edge rushers in the NFL throughout the year, according to PFF, he had the 3rd most Forced Fumbles, 10th most Stops, 19th most sacks, 18th most hurries, 2nd most QB hits, 3rd most QB pressures and 11th most batted passes all while ranking 25th among players at his position in total snaps. That type of production is the type of production that should earn a contract in the 10th-15th pass rusher range, which is exactly what we're talking about. And then just imagine what will happen for his production when we get someone better than what we had in 2024 on the opposite side of the line?

You just aren't being realistic about your expectations. Groot was an Elite NFL DE when it comes to run Defense and a B-B+ pass rusher. He had 8 sacks, 16 TFLs, 3 Forced Fumbles, 1 Fumble Recovery and 3 Passes Defensed. If he gets paid $22m AAV, that would translate to about 8% of the 2025 CAP. % of the CAP at signing is really what we need to look at when it comes to these contracts and lucky for us, that's easy to find: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/_/position/edge/sort/average_league_cap_pct/dir/desc If Groot signed a contract for $22m AAV, he'd be 15th in the NFL in terms of Edge Rusher contracts at signing when it comes to % of the CAP. He'd be just behind Harold Landry and just ahead of Joey Bosa.

Did you mean tango or is there some kind of messaging I'm missing with this word?

You must not pay attention to Edge Rusher numbers. $22m is what Bradley Chubb is making right now and he's the 10th highest paid Edge rusher. $22m would actually be a good deal for Groot. I could see us paying him as much as $25m though.

This is such an awesome deal! $15m AAV????? Are you kidding! I thought it would be more like $20, but was hoping he'd take a little discount and get down to something like $18. One thing I hope we all agree on with Beane is that he's been pretty good about extending the right players early.

Fair enough. For the record, I liked Beane’s move to get Von a few years ago. And it was working out great before the injury. I don't begrudge Beane’s move so I guess you're talking to another camp. That said, Garrett is a lower injury risk.

We are clearly talking about something that is 3 1st round picks or less. Myles Garrett has missed 5 games in his NFL career for injury. 1 for a concussion and 4 for a high ankle sprain. Are you saying odds are more likely that Garrett will suffer a season ending injury than the combination of all the draft capital we trade for him? I would argue that Garrett would be more impactful to the team than all those draft picks you're talking about. Scouts always say draft the ceiling, not the floor. In other words, hope for the best. With Garrett, we know what his best is and it's amazing. Not so much with any draft pick.

Dude... a rookie 1st round pick could have a catastrophic injury and never live up to their potential. Or they could get multiple concussions in their first couple seasons and retire early. Absolutely anything can happen. What you get with Garrett is the security you don't get with ANY rookie you draft in knowing that he's an Elite, HOF player. What you also get in Garrett is a guy who's just built differently. Von won with speed, agility, and bend off the edge. A player like that is more likely to get an ACL injury than a guy like Garrett who has his own speed and bend but wins mostly with power. The guy is 25 lbs heavier than Von and only an inch taller. Maybe we should track people's opinions on NOT trading for a guy like Garrett instead. If the picks we make for players we otherwise would have traded for Myles Garrett don't cumulatively impact this team as much as Myles Garrett would have on his own, maybe we should point the finger at those folks. I mean... you can't have it both ways, right?

Actually the Diggs trade was more than a 1st. It was a 2020 seventh-round pick in exchange for a 2020 first-round pick (No. 22 overall), a 2020 fifth-round pick, a 2020 sixth-round pick and a 2021 fourth-round pick. And Diggs was nowhere near the caliber of player at the time of the move that Garrett is now.

This I don't agree with. McDermott's scheme has historically been predicated mostly on getting pressure with the horses up front and allowing the back end to drop into zones to cover. We've just never had the horses. The Eagles played a ton of zone in the Super Bowl and destroyed the Chiefs because of the horses up front. Myles Garrett would make a massive difference on this Defense. I don't know how you could argue otherwise. And then suddenly Groot becomes a fantastic complementary Edge on the other side. Find your 1 tech in the draft with whatever draft capital remains for day 2. Like I said in the OP, Dane Brugler had a ton of guys on the DL in his top 100. But the notion that an Elite, HOF Defensive Lineman in his prime might not be the difference for us is losing their mind. See Chris Jones and all of the playoff games where he actually made those handful of plays that absolutely were the difference. Buffalo lost to KC by 3 points in the AFC Championship game. Are you seriously saying that if we substituted Von Miller out for Garrett opposite Groot that the results probably wouldn't have been any different? And people need to stop using that "soft coverage" term. Go listen to the guys who watch the film like Joe Marino and Anthony Prohaska and Bruce Nolan... these guys all emphasize that it's just zone that we run, but it's a zone defense that's predicated on the idea of getting pressure with 4. We just can't do that. It's not "soft coverage," it's just zone coverage.

So what's your cost? There are a range of opinions in terms of what it would take to get Garrett... from only 1 1st rounder and not much else to 3 1st rounders and potentially a player. I think the reality is that the trade will be in the middle. It will be 2 1st rounders plus probably a player and/or a draft pick. I could see this year's 1st and 2nd and next year's 1st for Garrett being the ball park of the price. I'd do that in a heartbeat. And as some have already said, Garrett is in a different category from everyone else, including even Von Miller. And first of all, the Von Miller trade was actually working out very well until he tore his ACL. That said, Von was 3 years older than Garrett and Garrett plays the game in a way that will probably allow him to be Elite for much longer in his career. He's big and powerful and plays similarly to the way Bruce Smith used to and Bruce was playing at an Elite level into his mid 30s. As for the response from Thurm and what you're saying here as far as the criticism of my "or bust" portion of my statement, all I'm really asking is if you'll spend most of the offseason disappointed and skeptical if we don't get one of those guys as opposed to spending the rest of the offseason in optimistic excitement. I'm not saying it's one of those guys or next season is an automatic failure.

Go with your gut on this one. Genuinely curious because I just started with the draft class now that the season is done. Holy cow! This might be the draft to need anyone on the DL!!! On the other hand... for once it looks like we have CAP space and some Elite to generational talents might be available in a trade... but that will cost draft capital in an incredibly deep DL class... (In Dane Brugler's top 100 there are 17 edge rushers and 13 DTs) but Brandon Beane fails consistently in drafting Elite players early... but drafted players who hit are cost controlled and we can ensure more years of competitive rosters in Josh's prime... How do you guys honestly feel about this? I'm a little torn right now, but my gut says I'm going to be pretty disappointed if we don't get Garrett or Crosby this offseason.

I'd rather have him than Elam right now

Bass is fine. He's redeemed himself already. Moving on...

Yes, I think I would and it would be fair for all of us to blame him because it would be the complete opposite action of every word and action we've seen publicly and semi-privately. I understand your thought process behind starting this thread. If Josh were a Robot with no feelings or emotions, I wouldn't blame him. If real world Josh left, I'd rightfully blame him. Thanks for making me feel like crap about something that's not happening though...

Take a look at Shaw's comments right after, but I wonder how much people really paid attention to Josh in the run game this year. I don't have any advanced metrics on me, but I bet wherever you find them you'd discover that this year Josh became more of a pure pocket passer than any other year in his career. We already know he got more YAC out of his WRs than any other year, so he became more of a point guard than he was previously. Also, Allen had the lowest number of rushing attempts per game of any season of his entire career... and I bet once you subtract all of the tush push/QB sneaks, the number of designed QB runs and scrambles become staggeringly low compared to the rest of his career. Personally, I've always wanted our OCs to virtually get rid of designed QB runs other than QB sneaks while encouraging Josh to scramble, because that's when he's most effective. But I think if you're honest with yourself you'll realize that Josh is much more of a traditional pocket passer than he's made out to be.

Let's be honest, Big Ben notoriously took HORRIBLE care of himself and had great seasons in his age 36 and 38 season... So no... you're probably wrong.

Well he sounds bitter for just missing out on team success.

You have the ability to change the title ya know. And the answer is Benford. He's maybe the 2nd-4th best player on the team.

As much as I want to say it's too much, I also think it's still in the ballpark. If Brady finds a way to utilize Cook more in the passing game this offseason and turns Cook into the 2025 version of Thurman in the 90s K-Gun locking him up at $12-$13m per year might not be a bad idea. And is that really so far off from $15m? What's good is that if this is his negotiating tactic, we know what he wants. And both parties in negotiations never get exactly what they want. They'll meet in the middle. The question is where is the middle?

I think anyone watching the Chiefs in the playoffs understands this. If Houston had a pulse on offense they would have won. Myles Garrett please.