transplantbillsfan

I actually think that's a pretty good deal. KC got a pretty good deal to trade up for Mahomes, but they still gave up their 3rd that year along with 2 1sts. The Julio Jones trade from 27 to 6 consisted of 2 1sts, 2nd round draft picks in consecutive years, and 4th round draft picks in consecutive years. If Buffalo traded up for Odunze or Nabers in the top 10 and only gave up their 2nd this year and 1st next year after swapping 1sts, I'd be pretty ecstatic, honestly. Then we can just root for Minny to tank next year to make that 2nd round pick we acquired from the Texans more valuable and maybe use one of our comp picks combined with that pick to trade back into the late first, where we (hopefully) would be picking anyway. And we still have 7 picks in rounds 4-7 this year for Beane to play around with and use as ammunition to trade back up into the 3rd or earlier than his picks to get guys he wants. I just don't think that would be enough trade capital to trade up. Can you blame them?

That's what happens when you acquire a new Pro Bowl WR via trade. Remember all the videos of Tua to Tyreek? We haven't done that since 2020.

Why do you need JA videos so badly? That's just creepy

We need PR stunts, now??? Mahomes loves the spotlight. You can see that based on the QB Netflix series and all his commercials. Josh... not so much. Just because you don't see it don't mean he's not working.

So maybe the Falcons are a cautionary tale, maybe not. After that Julio Jones trade, the Falcons still made the playoffs in his rookie year, losing the Wildcard. But the next year, they only lost 3 games and made it to the NFC Championship game. The problem is, they bottomed out the next 3 years not making the playoffs and winning 4, 6, and then 8 games before Ryan's MVP Season in 2016 and their SB loss. I think Sammy Watkins would have been a pretty good NFL WR if he had a QB. C'mon man... after yesterday I think everyone would have learned their lesson in speaking in such absolutes.

You should listen. When are you going to come out with your own WR Big board?

He doesn't only like Legette... he seems to love him. He actually ranks Legette as his WR #4 ahead of Brian Thomas Jr. and Adonai Mitchell. He didn't seem to have a negative thing to say about his game. The question mark was just the 1 year of production. For value I almost hope we trade back from #28 to draft him, but who knows what actual NFL teams value him as? Maybe just draft him at 28 if he's there.

So it seems at least on 47% of the passing plays as I mentioned in those previous advanced stats that Allen gets the ball out quickly and efficiently to his 1st read since he has the highest completion percentage in the NFL. That leaves 53% of remaining plays and 23% of ground for him to meet your 75% benchmark. Seems we can establish he's extremely effective getting the ball out to his 1st read. You don't really think he NEVER gets the ball effectively to his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th reads, do you? Considering he's EXTREMELY effective getting the ball to read #1, dropping the % down to him getting the ball to his 2nd read to something like 10% would be a ridiculously large drop and then to something like 5% for 3rd and 4th reads would be a lot, too. But even with that Allen would be over 70% of those in-structure plays you were talking about in terms of distributing the ball to his playmakers. Obviously his completion % wasn't over 70%, but I'd assume you wouldn't put drops on Allen, right? Or routes that were miscommunications on WRs? And what about when those plays are blown up by defenders that get through the line immediately. Those are the plays you said Brady would take sacks on. Josh gets plus plays instead. Shaw, you're right, Allen needs to be better. That's fine. I have no problem with anyone saying that Allen can be better. The issue is that you put Burrow in a different tier from him saying he's a better QB and I just think that's patently false. Also, I'm quite sure there are passing plays where coaches coach Allen to scramble, and I don't consider that Sandlot Football. Michael Vick has talked about how his coaches used to coach him up for the times he should run the ball. It would be complete negligence for Harbaugh and McDermott not to do the same with Lamar and Allen.

Shaw... I understand you think I missed your point. I think you missed mine and we're just talking around each other. You think the offense is predicated strictly on the ball being spread around to the 4 or 5 offensive weapons on the field on pass plays. I think any OC that has a weapon like Josh or Lamar at QB would be a complete idiot to not coach them up in some way on when they should use their legs on passing plays. You think McDermott and his OC by extension just grit their teeth and allow Allen to use his natural instincts to run on passing plays at the times he needs to. I think McDermott is smart enough (in fact, "buttoned up" might be the right term here) to understand it would be incredibly foolish to not try to coach Josh up on the times he should take off, since it's part of his natural ability, anyway. We disagree. That's plain to see. I really think you're being too old school in your mentality of pigeonholing the QB position--especially the modern QB--to just passing is a bit naive. ummm... yes.... how else would anyone else define these things?

Read the post right before that one in my conversation with Shaw

Then how do you explain that the guy McDermott fired at OC had Josh running via designed runs and scrambles 4.2 times per game while the guy he hired as Interim OC and then retained permanently in that position had Josh running 9.7 times a game? Brady doesn't sound like he had the offense very "buttoned up," at least based on your definition. Also, I don't think 31 other coaches say that, either. Lamar falls into a similar bucket as Allen. Maybe Hurts, to a lesser extent. I'm a little mystified that you think every QB needs to be judged and evaluated as QBs by the same set of standards. A good coach knows the talent he has at specific positions and uses it. However buttoned up McDermott might be, he understands the stallion he has at QB and chose the OC that had him running almost 10 times a game.

Shaw, all of this neglects to consider the fact that his off-script plays might be part of the script in the first place if you can acknowledge that going beyond read #1 is still part of the script. Does anyone really think that his coaches are stressing the point to him that he needs to always get to his 3rd or 4th read? His coaches have obviously understood his athleticism throughout his whole career and have incorporated running as part of the progressions, so to speak. You really think there's never been a point where his OC has said "OK Josh, if it's man coverage and your 1st read is covered and it's a 2 high shell, RUN!!!!"? I think 2023 was evidence itself that Josh scrambling has been part of the coaching. Look at his rushes for the first half of 2023 with Dorsey vs the 2nd half with Brady. Heck, just look at the "low positive" attitude Dorsey was clearly coaching into him. Just note the fact that during the time Dorsey was coaching in 2023, Allen ran less than 5 times per game. When Brady took over, that number doubled and he ran almost 10 times a game. As for all the "in-structure" stuff, Josh is actually pretty good and getting better. When Josh does pass the ball in under 3 seconds he has the 2nd fastest release of any QB in the NFL. When he does get the ball out in under 2 1/2 seconds (which is 47 percent of his passes), he completes 78% of his passes. That's #1 in the NFL. And Josh had the lowest turnover worthy play percentage of his entire career at 3%. He was just really unlucky. (EDIT: All the stats above are courtesy of Joe Marino in his QB roster evaluation he did a month or so ago. He's said in the past he pays for subscriptions to various sites like PFF for thier Advanced metrics, so that's probably what they're from) Saying Josh can improve is fine because every NFL player can improve, Including Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes. Positing that Josh has more ground to make up as a QB than especially Burrow is, I think, silly.

I agree with you regarding Lamar, but I think it's stupid that he's probably more of a lock for the HOF than Josh right now. Josh has almost 60 more TDs over the span of his career (both drafted in 2018), lots more wins, lots more total yards, lots more 4th Quarter Comebacks, lots more Game Winning Drives, lots more playoff wins, etc. Yet....

Here's the problem with on-script plays for a QB in the NFL: The other 10 players on offense need to do their job and be on the same page as Allen. So was it Allen or Gabe more to blame for multiple incompletenes along with a few interceptions on option routes that happened during the season? Was it Allen or Dawkins more to blame for the incomplete pass to Shakir at the end of the drive in the KC game? Multiple examples of this. Also, I disagree on your assessment of Mahomes. Mahomes is just as scattershot as Allen is, if not moreso, at executing plays as designed and on schedule. I think your assessment of Allen lacks the nuanced focus of what's actually happening on the OL. Which statement here do you think is more true: Josh Allen has let down his OL throughout his career by getting unnecessarily sacked and pressured when he could have gotten the ball to the WR as determined by the playcall. OR Josh Allen has made his OLs look better throughout his career by avoiding pressure, sacks, and making incredible plays only he and maybe a couple other guys can make. ?????????????? Based on your argument, I would assume you believe statement 1 is the more true statement. I'm not a film buff, but I listen to and read a lot of them. Based on your criteria of 75% (30-32 out of 40), I think Josh is actually already pretty Elite even in the category you don't think he is. Frankly, I also don't think that when your QB rips off an unscripted 50+ yard TD run in a playoff game that it's an indication of anything other than greatness. How about his supporting cast and coaching?

Shaw I think your explanation in the previous post is fine except for bringing Burrow into the conversation and putting him above Josh. I think Burrow is the most overrated QB in the NFL. That's not because I don't think he's really good. It's because he's less of a Tractor and more of a Trailer than Mahomes, Josh and Lamar. Burrow has been widely talked about by many (not all, but a significant and loud enough portion of the national sports media) as the 2nd best QB in the NFL when I think he’s more clearly the 4th or 5th. Aside from his injury history and the whole "the best ability is availability" thing, Burrow had arguably the best WR corps I. The NFL the last few years along with a top 10 RB group. I used to question Mahomes's greatness because he had 2 HOF players as his #1 weapons in Hill and Kelce. I can't question that anymore. I frankly look at Burrow and wonder why the label of greatness was given to him so quickly by so many. I can answer my own question and get to the Super Bowl appearance, but let's be honest, there's a lot of luck involved in winning in the playoffs and getting to the Super Bowl. Fact is that Burrow and Mahomes both began their careers with at least a couple E.lite weapons in the passing game and were able to grow into being great QBs with that crutch (along with an Offensive HC of course) and are only now backsliding a little into losing those weapons and needing to be the full Tractor. Mahomes is that Dude. I'm honestly skeptical of Burrow being there considering since his National Championship year in College he's always had more than 1 Elite weapon. And by the way, Burrow has had 2 great seasons total in the NFL. That's it. And he only reached 40 TDs in one of those seasons. And it's not like you can say he was incredible protecting the Football because he had at least 15 turnovers in both of those seasons. Contrast those 2 with Josh Allen, who has been given the opposite trajectory. A horrible roster and no weapons in year 1. A couple pretty good weapons finally in year 2. It wasn't til year 3 he finally got an Elite weapon in Diggs, but he's never had 2 the way Burrow and Mahomes have for multiple years at the beginning of their careers. Hopefully next year is the year he finally has 2+ of them through some combination of Diggs, Kincaid, Cook, rookie WR, etc. But that would be his 7th year before he finally got what Mahomes and Burrow started their careers with. Josh Allen is better than Burrow. He's been the ultimate Tractor carrying this team since his rookie year. If the real criticism of Allen with relattin to this Burrow vs Allen argument is #QBwinz then maybe what McDermott really needs to consider is going old school and start using Allen on D as an LB as well as our QB.

A poor man's Roethlisberger??? Look... maybe Josh never gets the 2 Super Bowls Big Ben got (I think he will, though), but Josh is already better than Big Ben or Phillip Rivers ever were.

Yes... this is the only way we trade our 1st. I actually think it would be worth it for any of those 3 guys as long as we aren't giving away too much more than next year's 1st. In 2011 Atlanta traded up from 27 to 6 and gave up that year's 1st, 2nd, and 4th and the following year's 1st and 4th. For me if Odunze falls to the 10ish range and we can make a similar trade that the Falcons did, but keep our 2nd this year, I would say do it.

Ya know what I think this deal very well might mean... Tre White back in Buffalo in 2025. I don't absolutely think it happens, but if Tre plays well or decent in LA, his contract is up. Who else has a contract up at the end of the year that Buffalo strangely hasn't extended yet???? Rasul Douglas. Add in what revealing comments McDermott and Beane made the other day and the combo of this one year deal with another team and the clear desire on McBeane's part to eventually see Tre again... just don't be surprised

Wait... so now Josh needs to tell us what's wrong with his game and tell us what he's correcting because otherwise he's not correcting it??? Everyone in the national media has consensus on one thing with Josh Allen: Competitiveness. If you honestly think Josh isn't spending the offseason working on his game, you're an idiot. He's just older now and understands the entire public isn't entitled to knowledge of every detail of his offseason or personal life... note how he's handled the new girlfriend.

Isn't this the same thread?????

I mention this somewhere else, but I listen to a lot of the podcasts with the film and scout guys. Daniel Jeremiah, Mel Kiper, Nate Tice, Dane Brugler... etc. They stress that when scouting a prospect you really value the highs. Coleman's highs look pretty darn good. And I really think it's what he does on punt returns more than anything that convinces me to that the skepticism of his athleticism and potential is overblown.

So I posted this waaaayyyy back in the thread, but with all the talk about Coleman here it seems relevant I think Coleman is pretty impressive. Would be ecstatic getting him in the 2nd, but wouldn't be so surprised seeing him at 28

-Beane dug into Joe Brady's brain with regard to Curtis Samuel, so you better believe Brady's got some ideas already on how to use him. -Thought the Tre comment was interesting. Would it even be feasible to bring him back again this offseason? -Sure sounds like we're going with the guys we have at Safety. Almost politely dismissed the idea of Micah coming back by making it seem kinda far-fetched and emphasized DT, not Safety was priority #1 in FA. -Sounds like the door might be open for Cook to get a 2nd contract in Buffalo based on the way Beane talked about the evolution of RBs like Saquan and CMC in offenses. -Groot's 5th year option will be picked up if he's not extended first. -We have $6-$7 million in available CAP space.

Now we get Austin Johnson. I think at this point every position on D will be better than 2023 except Safety now with our FA acquisitions, returning injured players and having Rasul for the full season. D better