BillsFan4

Is he for real JoeToronto?

Wasn't ducasse (and the other players that formulate into the comp pick) signed before Beane and his front office staff were even hired? doesn't seem fair to blame them. And it wasn't just signing him that loses a 3rd comp pick. It's a combination of Ducasse, Holmes, Hauschka and Ryan Davis. They have to cut 3 of those 4 to get the comp 3rd IIRC. I fully expect at least 2 of the 4 to be cut. I don't think Hauschka will be, and Holmes is a toss up. If they can

Honestly, I was really only referring to the risk in trading up for a QB. I've seen it talked about a whole lot ever since we acquired that extra Chiefs 1st, and while I'm not opposed to it, trading up to the top of a draft for a QB is definitely a huge risk that has rarely ever worked out for the team trading up. I 100% agree that the Cornelius Bennett trade was an amazing one for the Bills. He instantly put that defense over the top, and I'd make that trade again 10 times out of 10. I still love that move to this day. One of the best the Bills made IMO. But that Bills team was in a much different position. That defense was actually one player away from being great. Unfortunately, the Bills weren't (and still aren't) one Sammy Watkins away from being great.

Yeah I don't see them selling their future to move up and draft a QB. Maybe they're willing to give up that extra Chief's 1st to move up. But I'd be surprised if they traded away a whole draft for 1 player. I think they know the Bills need to be built from the ground up through the draft. Although, who knows. That Watkins trade took some big balls, and Beane has said he knows the importance of having a franchise QB & how it's a QB driven league. So if he feels very confident about a certain QB maybe he's willing to go all in for him? It's kind of hard to predict what these new guys are going to do, as they haven't been on the job long enough yet for us to really know their tendencies. All I know for sure is that they value character and a team first mentality. That is very clear to see in the players they've drafted/acquired.

Did you stop watching the Bills all the games Sammy has been injured and not on the field? I didn't. The Bills are and always will be my team, and I will watch them because I am a die hard BUFFALO BILLS fan, not just a Sammy Watkins fan. I like the team, not just 1 player on it.

Same here. I thought Mahomes did some good things but I wasn't even close to being blown away or anything. Nothing that made me say "oh I hate that we traded down instead of drafting him". It was only 1 preseason game (against a weak opponent) though. It'll be years before we know what Mahomes really is.

I could care less if Sammy makes a pro bowl. I care about the Bills winning. If Sammy re-signs in LA and helps them to have much more success over the course of his career than what Beane/McDermott & the Bills are able to accomplish, then maybe I'll care. But if the Bills ultimately build a successful team under Beane and McDermott, it won't matter to me if Sammy is a perennial all pro. I wish the kid success, anyway. I just wish the Bills more success. lol

Sure, a top pick would be nice to take a QB. But you don't absolutely need one to find a franchise guy. Just looking st current NFL starting QB's - Joe Flacco - taken 18th overall Derek Carr - 2nd round Aaron Rodgers - 24th overall Ben Roethlisberger - 11th overall Tom Brady - 6th round Drew Brees - 2nd round Russel Wilson - 3rd round Kirk Cousins - 4th round Dark Prescott - 4th round Andy Dalton - 2nd round Tiny Romo - undrafted (and now retired) Then you have guys who were taken top 3 that haven't done squat - Blake Bortles, Sam Bradford, RGIII, even guys like Matt Stafford (who is definitely a franchise QB and I would take in a heart beat) haven't won a thing and Alex Smith although a franchise guy is pretty underwhelming for a 1st overall. I could go even further and say what real success has a guy like Carson Palmer had (taken 1st overall)? He said played in what, 3 or 4 playoff games in his entire career, with 1 win (IIRC)? I mean even Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton (who are all absolutely franchise QBs and who I would LOVE to have) haven't really won anything. I would take any one of them in a heart beat though! lol Then guys like Goff and Wentz it's too soon to tell, although Goff looked terrible his first season, and Wentz didn't look very good outside the first 3-4 games. But it's way too soon to call on them. Same goes for Mariota and Winston, although both look to be on their way to success. Now, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I would absolutely love love love to have one of those elite top of the draft QBs. But it's no guarantee that the Bills win anything is all i'm saying, and also that you can find a legit franchise QB to win a Super Bowl with outside the top 3-5 of the draft. Not all our hopes for the future hang on a top 3 QB pick. Even when you have a top 3-5 pick, it's more about being lucky enough to get that top pick in the right QB draft year, and then pick the right QB in that draft. Not too often are there sure thing QBs these days. College QBs are more of a crap,shoot now than they've probably ever been.

Yes, I believe they said there are 53 new players on the team this year (that's why I get a kick out of these people that say they need to at least match Rex's record since they kept Tyrod). The turnover has been pretty extreme. But part of that was the way Whaley had the team set up going into free agency. They had a crazy amount of free agents, and with a new staff coming in, it was set up perfectly to see a lot of turn over. I am think that this regime is safe for at least a few years, if not their whole 5 year contract. I don't think a Pegula expects this to be a 1-2 year process. He seems very sold on McDermott, and I don't think McDermott sold him on instant success. He sold him on long term success, and that takes time. Like !cDermott said, when you change coaches and GMs it means that the organization is "sick", and it's going to take years to cure 17 years of sickness...

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/896250320983957505/video/1 Every throw from Mahomes debut. I thought he looked ok from what I seen. Nothing that blew me away though. And this is against a pretty mediocre (at best) San Francisco team, that doesn't have much depth among their starters, let along their 2's and 3's. I think he has a good shot at turning out ok in Kansas City because he's with a great coach who knows how to develop players and is surrounded by a deep, skilled team. But he's still far from a sure thing, though. Every throw from: Watson - https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/895514771742576640 Kizer - https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/895866080358350848 Trubisky - (now he impressed me) https://mobile.twitter.com/NFL/status/895880960708714496

It's not even just the Bills - trade ups for QBs (especially to the top of the draft) have rarely ever worked out for the team trading up. Eli Manning. But I don't really think that one counts, as Eli absolutely DEMANDED a trade. He was going to suit o,saying football and go into law (IIRC) if he was not traded. And even then the trade may not have happened if the NYG didn't have Philip Rivers going back the other way to SD. So that was the rarest of rare circumstances surrounding that trade. The only other trade up (to the top of the draft) for a QB I can think of that more/less worked out is Michael Vick way back in 2001, and that was before mobile QBs were as nearly popular as they are today. Vick really took mobile QBs to a different level. The trade up for Joe Flacco has worked out, but that was only trading up to pick #18. I know you weren't just referring to trade up's for QBs, though. Edit - I guess one (or more) of Goff/Wentz/Mahomes/Watson could work out. We will have to wait and see I guess.

Comparing Sammy to Eichel just isn't comparing apples to apples IMO. Hockey is a completely different sport than football. Eichel plays the equivalent position (franchise center) to a franchise QB in football. Sammy is like an elite winger in hockey - they're great to have but don't necessarily win you championships. They can help, but you can win it without them. You need an elite franchise #1 center and an elite #1 defenseman in hockey. I don't think you need an elite WR to win a Lombardi in football. Especially when you don't yet have a QB who has proven he can get that elite WR the ball... sure they help. But they're nowhere near as important a position as a franchise #1 C in hockey. The draft is completely different in hockey, too. You need to have a top 2-3 pick to get game changing difference maker type players on the level of Eichel. Amazing players rarely fall in the NHL draft. Where as in the NFL great players are found through the first 1-2 (even 3) rounds every year. You don't need a top 3 pick to find this edifference makers. Now I get Sammy is a rare talent. Trading him away sucks. But it's still not comparable to what Eichel means to the Sabres IMO. You are talking about a 19yr old who has already shown to be a top 10 player in the NHL. While Sammy has that potential he has not yet shown it, and it doesn't help that he doesn't have the QB to help him along with that. Eichel doesn't need a QB to show it, though. He can do it on his own, and there lies another difference between the two sports. Oh, and the fans had absolutely nothing to do with Sammy getting traded. We didn't run him out of town. Management decided to move on.

I don't think they are done making moves by any means. I would be shocked if they didn't try to add players as rosters are cut to 53. I wouldn't even be surprised if we seen more trades. But I definitely expect players to be added to this roster. I'm really not all that worried about finding a speedy receiver though. Getting a "burner" to run some go routes shouldn't be all that tough to find, IMO, if that's something they decide they need. I'm not sure how often Dennison's offense relies on plays like that to need a burner type. Zay Jones did alright as a deep threat in college. Maybe he can fill that role? Now if you're talking about an all around good WR that can also be a deep threat, that'll be harder to find. I'm expecting more of a run & short pass w/YAC eat up the clock possession style offense though. If that's the case, then I think they have bigger, more pressing needs than a speedy WR (like defensive secondary!)

Beane answered this question directly. He said it has nothing to do with his players vs Whaley' players, said he has no problem keeping players if they buy in to what they're trying to do. They also seem to like a specific type of personality, and I'm not sure that was Sammy. If you look at the guys they've brought in, they are really 100% team first guys. Said they're willing to do whatever the team needs. It isn't about them or their stats and targets, it's only about winning. They're all about doing whatever the team needs them to do to win. We will see in time if their approach is right. But we won't know for at least a few years, and we have no control over any of this stuff. So you may as well sit back and try to enjoy the ride...

http://www.panthers.com/news/article-2/Examining-why-Panthers-parted-ways-with-Dave-Gettleman/6b8b96da-b6ed-4814-8ca2-29bf7542aa17 This is right from CarolinaPanthers.com - "Of course, none of those reasons fully explain Monday’s decision, and they don't answer why a change was made now. One presumable significant crack in the foundation began two months ago. When Brandon Beane left for Buffalo, Gettleman lost a key member of his team who had performed many day-to-day functions of a GM, a role that allowed Gettleman to focus on roster building. In many ways, the fallout appeared similar to some of the stories that came out of Kansas City after the Chiefs parted with GM John Dorsey." They were also saying that Beane was kind of a buffer for a not so personable and very crass Dave Gettleman. Beane was loved by everyone in the building, from ownership all the way down to the players in the locker room. Had he not left for Buffalo, Gettleman may not have been fired. And there is absolutely zero reason to think that Beane would have been fired also. Everyone who covers the Panthers has said that he would have been named the GM if he were still there. Everyone, including Beane, knew he was the next Carolina GM in waiting. The owner absolutely loved him I guess. They had been grooming him for like 20 years. When they fired Marty Hurney Beane was named interim GM and when they hired Gettleman the owner made a point of keeping Beane around, giving him a promotion to ensure he stayed.

That's not at all what I said or meant. Not even close. Not sure how you read everything I wrote and got that out of it. And I don't see trying to look at things rationally as pathetic. Whining and crying all over the message board on the other hand...

I'm still not too happy about seeing Watkins go, but let's be real here. We have zero shot at winning the division this year, and a very small chance at best at a wild card birth. Tom Brady is 40 and has maybe a few good years left (we hope). This trade is about the future. From what I've read/heard, the 2018 draft is supposed to be very strong and deep. We now have 6 picks in the top 90,maybe more when all is said and done. This team has tried the bandaid approach for way too long. They haven't legitimately built through the draft in a long time. Beane hired what looks to be a top end front office and scouting/personnel staff. So let's allow them to build this team from the ground up through the draft and see what happens. It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to pay Watkins $15-$20M per season when Tyrod could very likely be gone after this year and they would be starting over at QB. How willing would Sammy Watkins be to re-sign here if the Bills start from scratch yet again at QB (or even if TT stays if he's not consistently able to get Watkins the ball)? That would be the 3rd time in his 4 years here. Until the Bills become a legitimate threat as a passing offense, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to employ a $17+M WR... This trade is basically just correcting a previous mistake. The Watkins trade made no sense with EJ Manuel as your #1 QB. It was trying to prop up a bad 1st round pick by trading away multiple 1sts and a 4th for a WR they were basically incapable of getting the ball to in the first place. I feel like LA might be doing a similar thing to what the Bills did - trying to fix a bad QB pick. Maybe Goff breaks out though, who knows. But If he plays anything like he did last year, Sammy ain't signing an extension there. It sucks giving up on the potential Sammy Watkins has. But I'm willing to let this play out and see what type of team theee new guys build. From what I've read on Matthews, he does seem to fit the new culture better. Super hard worker, outstanding teammate and total team first guy. Fits the scheme well too. That's a somewhat similar approach to what the Patriots have used for years for team building. Let's hope it works...

Ain't that the truth! We have seen that first hand. That's why I want this new GM and coach here for at least their current contracts - 5 years. I want to see what happens when you actually have the same people in place and take the time to build old a team that fits them (and give them the chance to improve that team once it's built). Bad teams stay bad by constantly changing coaches, that's something I really believe as I have witnessed it with my own eyes over these last 15+ years with the Bills. I'm sick of the constant turnover. You can never build a true vision and it's extremely hard to develop your draft picks constantly changing scheme. You end up letting a lot of good players go, like we have. This isn't going to be some quick 2 year fix either. It has been decades of ineptitude. That's not a quick fix. The rebuild could hit another gear next year, too, depending on how this year goes. It's probably about time for a new approach. I'm not saying I'm excited that Sammy got traded away, but when's the last time the Bills have actually built through the draft? It's been a while. Seemed to work for Polian and the '90's Bills. They had multiple early draft picks in '85, '86 and '87 IIRC.

Scary stuff. 2 freaking lunatics in a pissing match...

Didn't McCoy play with Matthews in Philly? Maybe he's excited about having him. It's not like they just traded good players for picks. They also got good player(s) back in return. Matthews is a damn good WR. Gaines we will have to wait and see I guess, but he's definitely not a scrub. I read that Darby had been struggling. McDermott has done a great job in his career with the defensive secondary, so I'll just have to trust him for now on this one. I didn't fully understand that Darby trade, but I'm willing to wait and see.

You were complaining about getting a WR with only 1 year left on his deal so who would they throw to next year. I simply pointed out that Sammy only has 1 year left on his deal too and likely wants like at least 4x more than what Matthews will want. They can potentially replace him with Matthews beyond next year plus whoever they draft in the 2nd, and still have it cost them less than 1/3 of the cap space Sammy will take up. We don't yet have a QB who can consistently get Sammy the ball, either. And Sammy has yet to prove anything in the NFL. He has the potential, but I can see why the Bills wouldn't want to shell out $17M for a WR who had 1 good healthy year (assuming that he does have that type of year this year).

Sammy had 1 year left on his deal too and has said he is looking to change the pay structure of the NFL with his next deal (aka break the bank). Matthews is making like what $1.5M this year? Seems like a much better chance at re-signing Matthews than Sammy, unless you want to give Sammy $15- $17M or whatever the franchise tag is, for potentially 1 good healthy year out of 4 years in the league...

Remember Sammy's comments about not getting paid enough and the 2014 draft class changing the pay structure of the NFL. I'm guessing Buffalo didn't want to pay $17M (or more) for a WR next year, when their QB is somewhat limited in his ability to get the ball to that WR (and I am a Tyrod fan, don't get me wrong). Plus like I said earlier, maybe he didn't fit the new culture. They want team first guys. Guys who put the team in front of themselves. I'm not sure that is who Sammy is. And McDermott did say he wants players who are available to play and that's one thing Sammy has not been... Maybe that ankle tweak scare pushed them to get this deal done sooner rather than later? If they had no intention of signing him, you have to get something for him when you can. I'm bummed, but I'm just trying to find ways to spin this. lol

All I can really think of is Sammy doesn't fit McDermott's new culture or something. He seems to want total team first guys, not guys who go to the media asking for at least 10 targets a game? You can really see what he's looking for in guys like Zay Jones and Tre White. Maybe Sammy doesn't fit that mould... maybe there was something we were not seeing in practice or the locker room. That's about all I got... man what a painful day today is.

Wowww! What a complete waste trading up for Sammy was. I'm scared that they're going to look very foolish for trading Watkins away. If he blows up this year finally being healthy... We finally had an offense he fit in. They were going to use him like they did in college. Bummer. And Darby too? Man. Wonder what this does to team morale?