BillsFan4

Sammy ran a 4.43 at the combine. Matthews ran a 4.46 and Zay Jones ran a 4.45. Doesn't seem like that huge of a difference to me, if they wanted to send Matthews or Jones on a go route. I believe Jones did alright as a deep threat in college when they asked him to, no? We don't really know how Dennison will use them yet. Rod Streator actually ran a 4.37 sec. 40yd dash. So maybe he can be the deep threat? I wonder how much Dennison will use the deep pass, though. Seems like maybe he plans on using shorter passes and YAC, playing a possession style game eating up clock. I guess we will see. If they do feel they need a true burner/deep threat I'm sure they'll try and find one between now and the start of the season. Shouldn't be all that hard to find a speed guy IMO.

They had to teach him how to hold a football properly last year, so no surprise there... lol Kid is as raw as can be.

Beane said during his press conference that he didn't tell McDermott about the trade until the night before they made it. He said he didn't want to distract them from their game preparation. Also said he waited until the trade was real before bringing it to him and Pegula. I'd imagine they had some discussions about Sammy maybe not fitting into their long term plan before hand, and I'd also imagine that Beane, McDermott and Pegula agreed to make this trade. But if Beane is to be believed, McDermott and co. didn't know about the actual trade until the night before.

Thanks for the apology. Appreciate it.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/12/jordan-matthews-eager-play-tyrod-taylor-keep-representing-2014-wr-draft-class/ "Tyrod's a great asset to the Bills," Matthews said. "To be able to play with him is going to be awesome because I already know what kind of person he is." "Tyrod works hard," Matthews said. "He was always the first guy in the building whenever we were training in Arizona" "He definitely has a savvy about him, and he understands people. He's not one of those guys who was modeled to be a quarterback but has no people skills. He knows how to lead a locker room. He knows how to talk to the receivers, the rest of the offense and get everybody pulling in the same direction." "And I also think he has a chip on his shoulder," Matthews said. "When you go through history, the best quarterbacks always have a chip on their shoulders." "I'm excited to see what he's going to do."

Trying to rationally look at why a trade was made is not pathetic. But again, continually calling your fellow Bills fans pathetic because they bring up something you don't agree with, well... it's not s good look to say it nicely. You attacked me yesterday and called me pathetic after a wrote what I felt was a well thought out and rational post. You didn't bother going into detail as to why you didn't agree. You just called me pathetic. And now I've seen you do the same thing to multiple other people. It's very likely that Sammy was gone after this year, whether you like it or not. Either because the organization didn't see him as a fit or didn't want to dish out a massive deal for him (remember he said he wanted to change the pay scale of the entire NFL) or because they didn't like the way he fit the team or his attitude or whatever other reasons there were. it's also very likely that the Bills didn't want to use up roughly 2/3rds of their currently available 2018 cap space to franchise tag an often injured receiver, who has yet to make it through a single season healthy. So you can say that they could have tagged him. But maybe they didn't want to use $15-$17M of their $26M in cap space on Sammy.

I highly doubt that Sammy and Darby were traded solely to go after a 2018 QB. I can almost guarantee that there was a lot more to it. Honestly, I don't think going after a 2018 QB was even one of the reasons Sammy & Darby were traded, and if it was it was way down on the list of reasons IMO.

You're right that nobody knows how many games he will play. But you continue to focus on only the foot injury. Here's a quick list of Watkin's injuries in his time with the Bills (as per ESPN) - http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/24712/add-broken-foot-to-sammy-watkins-growing-list-of-nfl-injuries Aug. 16, 2014: Watkins exited the Bills' second preseason game against the Pittsburgh Steelers with what the team called a rib contusion and did not return. Aug. 28, 2014: After missing the Bills' third preseason game, Watkins returned for the preseason finale but pulled himself out of the game after reinjuring his ribs. Months later, Watkins revealed that he was dealing not only with a rib contusion but with broken ribs. Sept. 14, 2014: Watkins scored his first NFL touchdown in a Week 2 win over the Miami Dolphins, part of an eight-catch, 117-yard performance. Watkins was checked out by trainers multiple times during the game and was hunched over on the sideline at one point. Oct. 8, 2014: Watkins was removed from the injury report after being listed for the first five weeks of the season with the rib ailment. Oct. 22, 2014: Watkins was added to the Bills' injury report with a groin injury but was a full participant in practice. Four days later, he gained a career-high 157 receiving yards in the Bills' win over the New York Jets and was named the NFL's offensive rookie of the month for October. Nov. 5, 2014: Watkins left the Bills' Wednesday session with a groin injury and did not practice for the rest of the week. However, he played in the Bills' Nov. 9 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs, catching four passes on 10 targets. Nov. 30, 2014: Watkins suffered a hip injury in the Bills' Week 13 win over the Cleveland Browns but returned to play the following Sunday in a loss to the Denver Broncos, catching seven passes for 127 yards. Dec. 10, 2014: Watkins was removed from the injury report and did not reappear on it for the final three weeks of the season. Early 2015 offseason: Watkins underwent surgery on his hip and sat out the vast majority of organized team activities as he rehabbed. July 31, 2015: Watkins participated fully when the Bills opened training camp at St. John Fisher College. Aug 6, 2015: Watkins didn't finish practice after getting "a little nicked up," as Rex Ryan put it, but Watkins said he was dealing with soreness from his offseason surgery. Aug. 17, 2015: After easing back into practice, Watkins exited a training camp practice again with what was called glute soreness. He sat out the final three preseason games for precautionary reasons. Sept. 9, 2015: Watkins was listed on the Bills' first injury report with a hamstring injury but was a full participant in practice. He was removed from the injury report by Week 2. Sept. 27, 2015: Watkins left the Bills' win over the Miami Dolphins with a calf injury and missed two games, against the New York Giants and Tennessee Titans. Oct. 18, 2015: Watkins fell awkwardly in the end zone while making a 22-yard touchdown catch late in the first half of a loss to the Cincinnati Bengals. Television cameras later showed him on crutches outside the locker room, and his sprained ankle kept him out of a crushing Bills loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars the next weekend in London. He's had injuries to like 6 different body parts in his 3 years with the Bills. It very well could have just been bad luck. But to say that there hasn't been a troubling and worrisome history of injuries would be false.

Beane and his front office staff weren't even here yet when the Bills decided not to pick up Sammy's option. So how does that factor into his ego? It wasn't even a decision he or his front office staff made, as they were all employees of other teams at the time. And before you say "McDermott", Beane already said he was the one who handled this entire trade. He said he only brought it to McDermott the night before, when it became real.

So it kind of sounds like you agree that it's silly that the Bills have these cap issues without even sniffing the playoffs then? And that it's also silly to pay all these guys tons of money before they've really done anything in the league (like Sammy) and put the Bills in cap jail again after just barely stating to dig out of it this offseason? Lol. I know this is not what you were saying, but that's kind of what I took from your post... There is no reason that the Bills should have been so up against the cap the last couple years under Rex/Whaley. They went on a spending spree Rex's first year and used up just about all the Bills available cap space IIRC. The Bills absolutely did have cap issues last season and entering this offseason, especially with the number of free agent players they had. That's part of the reason they had to cut good players and let other good players walk. IIRC they had like $19M to sign something like 26 free agents. It's part of the reason why they had to rely so heavily on bringing in cheap players and UDFA's. I'm sure they could have found a way to make Sammy's numbers work, but not without having to make more painful moves elsewhere across the roster, hurting the quality of multiple other positions across the team. Thing is, whether we like it or not, we are nowhere near a Sammy Watkins away from being a competitive playoff team. They have massive needs across most of the entire roster and not a ton of cap space to work with ATM. The cap is getting better because of moves made this offseason, though.

Now I'm not saying i love the trade or whatever but I'm willing to give it time and see what McD/Beane are able to build here. Here's what it ultimately boils down to for me - The Bills are my team. They will be no matter who the owner/coach/GM is. I have absolutely ZERO control over the moves they make. So I can choose to try and rationalize the moves, try and figure out what they were thinking and make sense of them to myself. Or I can freak out. Since I have zero control and I prefer not to freak out over something I can't control, I rationalize the moves and do my best to see the vision of the team and try to support it. I am the type that prefers to try and go with the flow. These things are going to happen whether I want them to or not and it doesn't matter if I like the moves. They happened. So I choose to try and look for the best of the situation. It has nothing to do with being beaten down by losing or any of that stuff you mentioned.

Isn't the franchise tag for Sammy next year roughly $15-$17M or am I wrong? If so, the Bills are projected to have $26M in cap space next year according to spotrac. Tagging Sammy leaves them $9 - $11M to fill out an entire roster. I don't see that as oodles of cap space or as having the ability to make Sammy the highest paid player in the NFL. Making him the highest paid player in the NFL would literally eat up that entire $26M leaving the Bills $0. From everything Watkins has said, I see zero reason to assume they could get him signed for $12M per year, either. He wants to change the entire pay structure of the NFL as per his words.

I agree. The offense didn't suffer. I just found it interesting that the players felt the offense opened up more without him (if indeed that is true). McDermott seems very very focused on building a true team, where guys are 100% all in and willing to do whatever it takes for the team to win. It just kind of made me wonder (along with some of the other things we fans have read/heard) on how well Sammy truly fit into the locker room. I have no idea though. Just something I wondered about.

I found Shady's quotes to be interesting. This one in particular - "Sammy's one of them guys where, he's been like a superstar his whole life," McCoy said. "He hasn't had a real older mentor that has done more than him that can really give him advice. It's one thing to take advice from older guys that he's probably better than or done more than. But a guy that can really talk about success on the field and off the field, and listen to ... that's something we've been developing even in my short period of time here" Maybe it's just me, but I kind of felt that McCoy was implying that Sammy never had any real interest in listening to or taking advise from any veteran players that were not as talented as he was. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but that's what I got from it.

I remember that too. I had been wanting to bring that up but I couldn't remember where I read it though. Yeah he said a number of Bills players felt the offense opened up more withOUT Sammy in the lineup. Like you said, who knows if it's true. But I could see it TBH. We know Sammy wanted the ball forced to him any time he had 1 on 1 coverage, since he literally said it to the press. I could especially see it being true while Doug Whaley was still here. I am not sure on this but I want to say that I even remember hearing something along those lines before (on Whaley & Sammy getting the ball).

Lol. Thanks. it's hard to tell on the internet sometimes... Yeah, I was tying to be nice. But I really didn't see all that much similarity.

Very good special teams guy, maybe decent depth CB. Hoping for the best. I fully expect the Bills to try and sign another CB or 2 before the season starts, especially if any guys with starter or backup potential hit the market during cuts to 53. It's really a shame the Bills don't still have Ross Cockrell... he'd have been a potential good fit, and very good depth at worst. More li,Eli he's starting for us though

It doesn't seem to me like McDermott is calling the shots. Beane said he didn't even tell him about the Sammy trade until the night before it happened. Then they all discussed it - Pegula, McDermott and Beane and came to a conclusion. That sounds to me like a group effort, which is what they've said all along. They hadn't traded Sammy yet when they signed Holmes though, and they could still end up cutting him and the others for the 3rd round comp pick. I still think that's a likely scenario that they cut 3 of those 4 players for the comp pick. Especially if they're able to fill those holes when rosters are cut down to 53. Again though, it's not just Holmes they need to cut. So it's not him alone that costs them a comp pick. It's 3 of these 4 players - Ducasse, Holmes, DiMarco (or Ryan Davis, I've seen both listed), and Stephen Hauschka. Also, I'm not sure I'd say it makes no sense to sign needed players to fill out your roster, instead of getting a 3rd round comp pick a year from now (which is really a 4th round pick, since it is given after the 3rd round is over).

Or you could look at it like this - We traded #8 + 2015 1st + 4th round picks for Sammy. So, 3 picks for 1 pick. Any way you spin it, we gave up 2 1st round picks and a 4th round pick for Sammy. 3 players for 1 player.

I mean, I can see some similarity in some of the comments but I don't remember reading anyone saying he was their favorite teammate, or that he pushed them to be better than what they were, or challenged them to be a man of god or "words can't describe the impact you've had on my life". Every single guy commented on Matthews character. The Bills comments were more about being shocked about Sammy being traded, and a couple said they were sad to lose a friend. Zay Jones did say some nice things about Sammy being helpful. So yeah, similar in some regards, but different.

I don't really get where this is coming from. They won't ever have to pay out big contracts? How can you conclude that? Doug Whaley was the GM when Gilmore left in free agency, and when Gillislee left on that offer sheet. Before you blame McDermott, Whaley had 2 years to get Gilmore signed and he didn't. There were reports before McDermott was even hired that Whaley wasn't willing to give Gilmore more than $11.5M. Supposedly that was their best/highest offer. Yeah, they traded Sammy. But that was 1 player, and we have no idea what the exact reasons for the trade were. Even if it was contract related in some part, I am sure there were other reasons behind it too. To conclude that they think they won't ever have to pay out big contracts seems like a,pretty big leap in logic IMO. Always looking for low ball offers? Where does that come from? Jeremy Maclin chose Baltimore over Buffalo and it had nothing to do with money. There was a report that the Bills actually tried to up their offer to above what Baltimore offered just to try one last time to get Maclin to sign here. He chose Baltimore because of (his words) Joe Flacco, because they won a Super Bowl recently and he felt they were close, and because his wife is from Baltimore and has family there. And Boldin signed here. Beane said it was never about the money. They knew where the money needed to be and had agreed on it. It was Boldin deciding if this was a good fit for him and his family. So I don't get the "always looking for low ball offers" comment. There doesn't really seem to be much to back that up. They did say that they aren't going to overpay and hand out massive contracts in free agency though, which is a good strategy that many successful GMs employ and different from what you are saying. As for draft picks meaning anything, they absolutely do. Almost all of the best NFL teams have all been built through the draft. That is how you build a true contender. You can't build a team through free agency in the cap era. Whaley had been here since 2010 and was GM since 2013. He had plenty of time to put a winner on the field, but was only able to eek out a winning season 1 time in his entire tenure here, and if Brady + the starters play that last Pats game of 2014 the Bills likely don't have a winning season that year either. He was an above average pro personnel guy and average (at best) to below average at everything else (IMO anyway). The Bills had the lowest number of drafted players on their roster in the entire NFL during Whaley's time here. http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/18/roster-data-shows-bills-gm-doug-whaley-not-building-roster-creating-nfls-biggest-hole/ And they actually retained the least number of their players during his time here too (from 2010) - http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/28/bills-retained-nfls-fewest-draft-picks-since-2010/

I posted this in another thread but this is probably a better place for it. Eagles players reactions to!atthews trade - https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/8/11/16135262/carson-wentz-eagles-players-react-jordan-matthews-traded-bills-buffalo-philadelphia-news-twitter

Eagles players reactions to losin Matthews - https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/8/11/16135262/carson-wentz-eagles-players-react-jordan-matthews-traded-bills-buffalo-philadelphia-news-twitter They all seem to have a common theme. Here's a couple of my favs - "I've known my dawg J Matt for a little over a year. From day 1 he was genuine & a true friend. I've known people my entire life who haven't challenged me to be a Man of God, & push myself as an athlete, as he has in a year of time. You've helped me prioritize what's important in life! Stay BLESSED family & be GREAT in Buffalo!!✊ #BigDogOutTheGate" Torrey Smith - I've only been around @jmattjmattjmatt for a few months but he is easily one of my favorite teammates ever. Good luck bro! God has you! And Wentz - Crazy part of this business. @jmattjmattjmatt you'll always be my boy both on & off the field. Couldn't ask for a better teammate & frien

I disagree. I'd guess they kept Tyrod because he's been the best QB the Bills have had in like 2 decades, has only started 2 seasons in the NFL, showed quite a bit of promise in those 2 seasons and is the hardest working player in the entire building. With the 2 seasons he's out together for the Bills, I'd say he deserves a shot at season 3. They are hoping he takes a nice step forward. With how hard it is to find decent QBs in the NFL, it seems like a very smart move to me not just throwing TT away and hoping that with good coaching he can improve. Plus, Dennison wanted to work with him and has had a pretty good history with getting good play from his QBs. McDermott most likely would not have been able to put together the coaching staff he did if the Bills were just tanking the season. McDermott put together a top of the line coaching staff IMO. I think we have many very good position coaches, the line coaches (Waufle and Castillo) being among the very best in the NFL. Also, how do you go about building a new culture and actually getting players to buy in, if they came in and tanked their first season? I would think that'd be a damn hard sell for pretty much any player on the team. They are trying to establish the foundation this season of a solid culture (not filled with constant losing) to develop to their plethora of upcoming draft picks in as well as their current picks on the roster. While at the same time acquiring solid draft capital for players they felt no longer fit the new regime. They've amassed a solid haul of draft picks without having to totally tank like Cleveland or the Jets. It's actually not a bad plan at all IMO. You don't need top 3 draft picks to build an NFL team. Game changers can be found all through out the draft, especially the first few rounds. It's not the NHL where you truly need a top,pick to get a franchise talent. Some player reactions - https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/8/11/16135262/carson-wentz-eagles-players-react-jordan-matthews-traded-bills-buffalo-philadelphia-news-twitter I especially liked this one - "I've known my dawg J Matt for a little over a year. From day 1 he was genuine & a true friend. I've known people my entire life who haven't challenged me to be a Man of God, & push myself as an athlete, as he has in a year of time. You've helped me prioritize what's important in life! Stay BLESSED family & be GREAT in Buffalo!!✊ #BigDogOutTheGate" You can really see the type of players this new regime is focusing on. They really seem to put an emphasis on true team first character guys. It's actually very intriguing. I'm pretty excited to see how this works out. I have high hopes.

I can see why people don't like the Sammy trade and the value the Bills for back... But the trade, the value seems pretty damn good to me. We got Jordan Matthews, who has been the NFL's most productive slot receiver in his 3 years in the league. Plus we got a 3rd round pick back, that should likely be in the top 1/2'of the round. Darby was a #51 overall pick himself (I know that doesn't matter now). That 3rd could be around +/- 75 (ish). So you get a pick back 25?spots later than where Darby was drafted, PLUS the most productive slot receiver in the NFL - a very likely 1st round pick if he had entered the draft a year sooner instead of entering in one of the deepest WR drafts (if not the deepest) in NFL history - for a guy the coaching staff seemed to feel didn't fit the new defensive scheme as well, and they could have possibly even ended up cutting down the road (especially if he didn't rebound from his 2016 season). We don't know what Darby is yet, either. He's played 2 years in the league. 1 year was very good, the other year was pretty ugly. So he's been good for 1/2 his career and not so good for 1/2 his career so far. I do expect him to rebound under Schwartz, but what if 2016 Darby ends up being who he really is? Then this trade looks even better. McDermott has done a great job with his secondary so far in his career. It's something he's known for. Even last year when he lost a top 3 CB (5th round pick Josh Norman who McD basically developed into the player that he is today), has other injures and was forced to start 2 later round rookie CB's, he had them playing damn good football by the 2nd half of the year. He's had pretty damn good secondary for most of his career. If McDermott feels that Darby is more suited to man coverage and is struggling in zone (more thinking involved in zone for CB's, may not be Darby's strong suit) as some in the media have been saying, then it was very smart to move on now, before his value possibly dropped, and get something significant for a player that was drafted for the previous coaches completely opposite defensive scheme.