BillsFan4

In my opinion, the Bills do not want a mobile QB. I believe they want more of a pocket passer. It feels like everything they've done and said points to this. -made Tyrod take a big pay cut and then got rid of him (after he helped them to the playoffs). -they were linked to Brian Hoyer last year and Sam Bradford this year. -it was said the only QB they would have drafted last year was Mitch Trubisky -passed on both Mahomes and Watson -they drafted Nate Peterman -signed AJ Maccarron -Beane and McDermott have said numerous times how important it is to be able to win from the pocket. We we will find out tomorrow, but from what I've gathered I don't believe they'd have interest in a QB like Lamar Jackson.

Those are far and away my top 2. If either her end up in a Bills jersey tomorrow I will be jumping for joy (well, as much as I can with 2 cracked ribs atm... lol).

Yeah I went in there a couple times but got tired real quick of banging my head against a wall. I'd take 2 hours researching something from both sides and laying out an argument using nothing but the facts, and I'd provide links from legitimate sources to back everything up I said. I'd write 12 paragraphs and All id get was either some version of "you're wrong" or no comment at all and I'd see them just continue to spout the same nonsense that I had just refuted. Edit - to be fair, it wasn't every poster in there. Just some.

He wasn't the original cause of the kneeling by any means, but... The kneeling had almost totally died out when he chose to make his comments. In the week before he made his "SOB's" remark, there were less than 10 players who kneeled (and I want to say it was closer to 3-5 but I'd have to do some research again because I don't remember offhand. I researched this quite a while ago now). There were only a few on Sunday, and even less on Monday and Thursday. Then Trump made his comments (a very curious time to make these comments, when the kneeling was almost dead...) and literally 100's of players took a knee the following Sunday. For some reason he chose to pour gasoline on the dying coals of a fire.

If we miss out on the top QBs, I am perfectly fine with Allen at 12, or if absolutely necessary even a slight trade up that only costs a 2nd or 3rd. Its the trading up to the top the top of the draft and giving away multiple 1sts stuff that would scare me. Id still give him every chance if that's what happens. It just seems like a bigger gamble to me than Darnold or Rosen, or even Mayfield.

This is exactly why all the Buffalo wants Josh Allen stuff doesn't make sense. IMO It really only makes sense that it's just a smokescreen. Benjamin Albright says that the Bills are telling some people they want Allen. That doesn't fit this new front office's MO to be leaking info like that. If Beane won't tell anyone outside of a very select group of a few people who he's wants, he's surely not telling insiders and other teams who he truly wants.

For those of you on the fence about Josh Allen. Here, this should help... lol

Here's the link to the original article for everyone asking - https://www.metro.us/sports/new-york/source-bills-likely-gunning-giants-no-2-pick

Maybe this would present an opportunity for the Bills to land Vander Esch even if they trade #22 to move up. Package some of their day 2 picks (if they still have them) to move up to 18...

Thanks for sharing Yolo. Glad to hear the Pegulas love him. Hopefully Beane and McD do too! and if so, hopefully the Bills actually get a legit shot to land him in the draft (which probably means him making it past pick #3...). Ill be pretty bummed if he lands elsewhere in the AFCE.

I've had this same thought, and it's what gives me hope that Allen isn't the pick and maybe Rosen is.

Owner Jimmy Haslam would not allow it.

I apologize too for some of the things I said. And I Fully agree about the politics. I actually blocked all those 24 hour news channels from even showing up on my TV. lol. I don't watch much tv anyway. I have my few shows that I DVR and that's about it. I come here to avoid all the crazy political nonsense going on out there. The Bills and Sabres are my escape. Big on music as well (listening and playing). Ive been playing since I was a kid (drums since 3rd grade and guitar since about 14-15).

Hey @Thurmanator 12074 as you know, we had our battles over Rosen. I would just like to say that I can see you are truly making an effort to tone down your posts on Rosen and I, for one, appreciate that and wanted to let you know that it hasn't gone unnoticed. ? this is new thurm seems much easier to get along with. I look forward to having civil discussions with you in the future.

True. Without knowing what went on behind behind the scenes, I can't really say for sure that the Bills couldn't have traded up for Goff/Wentz. I do remember reading rumors that Whaley did acquire about trading up for Wentz. I'm not sure if he got boxed out by the Eagles, or if he wasn't that serious about trying. Or maybe the rumors were just BS. I think the key in that trade was the Eagles getting from #13 up to #8. Supposedly the Browns were not willing to move out of the top 10. So it would have been harder for the Bills to get from #19 to #2, but it probably was possible. As far far as the Bills getting to #3 this year, there has been a lot of talk (some right from Ballard himself) that the Colts wanted to stay nearer to the top of the draft which is why they went with the Jets trade. It also gives them a 2nd opportunity to cash in on teams chasing a QB, which the Bills pick at 12 didn't offer. Maybe a ridiculously crazy offer gets the Colts to move from 3 to 12... But I can't ant say that I blame Beane for not giving up a crazy haul of picks to only guarantee that they get QB #3. Plus we don't know if Beane has 3 QBs he's even interested in trading up for. Most teams identify 1, or maybe 2 guys at most that are worth trading away a ton of picks for. The Jets are the first team I know of that has ever traded up to #3 this far out from the draft. So it's not exactly the type of thing that happens often.

I have argued for years against trading up to the top of the draft for a QB. Before Goff and Wentz, there were really no trade up's to the top of the draft that you could point to that worked out for the team trading up... Mike Vick (and that was before mobile QBs were big in the NFL). Joe Flacco (but that was only a trade up to #18). That's about all I could come up with. Other than that? There wasn't any examples to point to of trade up's (in the 1st, and more so to the top of the 1st) that were successful. I don't count Eli Manning because that was a VERY unique circumstance, and the Giants didn't trade up for him. They picked Rivers and then traded Rivers + more for Eli (and it only happened because Eli demanded a trade). This year I am firmly in the "trade up for a QB" camp. It does feel different for numerous reasons - First, I love the top of this QB draft. I think the top 3-4 QBs look very strong. Second, I think it's a somewhat unique year where some of the teams at the top of the draft may not necessarily want/need a QB. I feel like in many years these top 3 QBs would probably not be available (like the Winston/Mariota draft for example). And third, I actually have a ton of faith in a Bills GM and front office for the first time in a long time.

I mostly agree with Ty Dunne's point. But of the QBs he listed - Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes, Prescott - the Bills only really had a legit chance at 3 - Watson, Mahomes and Prescott. McDermott or Beane weren't here for Prescott, and Beane wasn't here for Mahomes, Watson. as for Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Darnold... we don't know what type of shot we have at them yet. If QBs go 1, 2, 3 (to the Browns, Giants, Jets) we may only have a legit shot at QB #4. If the Browns are unwilling to trade 4 and the Broncos take a QB at 5, then they are totally shut out and you can't really blame Beane too much for it. But I feel pretty confident that if Beane's QB(s) makes it past 3 they will be doing everything they can to move up to 4, 5, 6, 7 to grab him.

Agreed. A trade up to #3 on draft day, with the guy you want sitting there for the taking? Absolutely sign me up. But 6 weeks before the draft, with no idea if the guy you really want will even be there? Eh... How many teams are willing to give up 4 top 49 picks to trade up to the top of the draft, just to basically throw a dart at 1 of 3 random QBs? Especially 6 weeks before the draft, which is before they've even had a chance to work out these QBs privately, have them in for a visit, meet with and interview them extensively etc etc. At the point the Jets traded for 3, they had only met with what, 2-3 QBs for 15 minutes at the senior bowl/scouting combine? (I know they scouted them all year, but still, you are not allowed to have your scouts talk to the players during their college season). I mean, don't get me wrong. I want the Bills GM to be aggressive in finding our franchise QB. But the Jets move just comes off as a GM who is willing to bet his job and the Jets next half decade on a random pick of any top QB from this draft. That doesn't seem like the move of a GM I'd want running my team.

Yes, there are numerous posters who deserve mention in this thread. I am still relatively new here (about 1 and 1/2 seasons so far), so I am still learning who's good at what. I was was blown away by GunnerBill's QB prospects thread. His evaluation was better than most of the actual draft analysts i read. Bandit did some some great work in that regard too. It was very informative, and so cool that he took the time to post so much film, break down exactly what he was seeing and post the time stamps of where he was seeing it on the video. Astro's training camp thread this past season was phenomenal. The work all 3 put in to just give it away to us for free on this board is beyond appreciated. Thank you Gunner, Bandit and Astro! (I already thanked Yolo and 26 and I am sure there are more I am forgetting. So glad I found this message board!)

I agree. I read that they are comfortable with any of the top 4 QBs in this draft. I also read that Maccagnan sold Woody Johnson on doing whatever it took to get one of the top 4 QBs in this class over a year ago. There is no way that they had properly scouted and vetted those QBs when they put this plan into action over a year ago. That is another reason why I say the trade up to 3 was a desperate move. I feel that Maccagnan's job likely depended on landing one of the top 4 QBs in this draft class.

Sure, I guess. If you believe there is no difference between the top 3 QBs and that each one of them is worth 4 top 49 picks (I don't, but I am not a professional scout). How many drafts have there been over the last 40+ years where 3 QBs at the top of the draft have been worth that type of trade up? 1983. 2004. I can't think of any more off hand. And only in 2004 did the best 3 QBs go in the top 10, and as the first 3 QBs off the board. In 1983 three QBs went in between Kelly and Marino (Blackledge went before Kelly, and Eason + O'Brien went before Marino) Odds are are pretty damn high against the top 3 QBs in this class being worth 4 top picks, and against the best 3 QBs being the first 3 off the board.

Fully agree with this. Everyone's suddenly a professional scout at this time of year... lol. I wont lie. I am the most scared of Allen, too. Especially in a trade up. I want Rosen or Darnold. But it I am not going to act like I am some professional QB scout or talent evaluator, and pretend that I know more than the people who get paid to do this for a living - guys who spend decades in this field. Guys who watch every single throw these QBs have ever made, who dig deeper into these prospects backgrounds than we can even imagine. And I am certainly not going to sharpen my pitchfork and/or write the kid off before he's ever even taken a snap for the Bills. Allen may have the most upside of any QB in this draft, and there's definitely good reason why he's being discussed among the top QBs. Im still hoping for Darnold or Rosen but I will definitely find reasons to get excited if Allen is the pick. ultimately, I will support whoever the Bills draft and give him every chance to prove he's our guy.

Ive asked this question a couple times already - Can anyone name a team that has traded up to #3 that far in advance before the draft? (6 weeks). I can't name one. Theres a reason it's almost unheard of... I still think it was a somewhat reckless trade by the Jets. They have no clue what will happen at 1 and 2. They may have given up all that just to get QB 3 on their board. Are they really in love with 3 separate QBs in this draft? What are the chance 3 QBs in this class are worth that haul of picks? Seems like a desperate move by a desperate GM IMO. I'd much rather have my GM identify their guy, not take a random shot at any one of 3 QBs.

Definitely appreciate all that 26 and Yolo do. Thank you both for all the breaking news and Bills info you rovide to this board! It is very much appreciated.

Yeah Rosen is definitely your prototypical pocket passer. Personally, I tend to prefer pocket passers though (especially ones who can pick you apart from the pocket like Rosen). I honestly believe that his concussion risk can be limited in the NFL though. I already mentioned the o line, his pocket movement skills that will continue to improve and adding some weight onto his big 6' 4" frame. But I also think good coaching will limit the concussion risk too. His concussion in the Washington game was a direct result of him trying to do way too much himself. He was unwilling to give up on plays when they broke down. Instead of throwing the ball away or taking the short gain, he was continually trying to extend plays too long and go for the big gains. It led to 4 big sacks, and the final one resulted in a concussion. This isn't all that uncommon among college QBs, especially those with less talent around them on offense. I think he will likely be more willing to let his receivers make plays in the NFL. And If he's coached (better) to stay within the confines of the offense, as well as when to throw the ball away (etc), I think it will make all the difference in the world. He's more than capable of quickly reading a defense and making quick decisions. Ultimately though, Mobile QBs are at just as much injury risk as pocket passers. Look at all the mobile QBs that have had severe injuries over the years. Trying to scramble and run can/will put a QB at just as much (or more) risk as standing in the pocket and taking a hit. We have see plenty of injuries to both types of QBs over the years. And yes, mobile QBs may be able to avoid some trouble Rosen won't be able to. But they will also put themselves in injury risk situations (by running/scrambling/playing outside the pocket) that a pocket QB like Rosen won't. I guess it all boils down to whether to or not you think Rosen himself is injury prone, or if you think it was bad luck and circumstance. I tend to lean toward the latter. But I will trust that Beane and his scouting staff did the proper research.