HappyDays

Correct. There is no comparison between WRs and RBs, nor is there any comparison between KC and Buffalo. You're just grasping for anything at this point.

No I didn't personally hear anything on Waddle, but I trust the sources of Tom Pelissero with NFL Network. I also heard something interesting from Mike Florio on PFT today. He heard that the report about no one in the division wanting to trade with Buffalo was spin put out by the organization, and that the truth is we could have traded within the division but weren't able to get it done. I don't know why Beane was so worried about losing the value of the trade. What has he got to lose? We're talking about WRs, not RBs.

Yes and he drew his line over 2026 vs 2027. He had to win the trade on his exact terms or no deal, and now we are wasting another year of Allen's prime.

Most GMs suck at drafting. Giving up a 1st round pick for an established starter is just correctly recognizing that 1st round picks are not as valuable as they're made out to be. I guess Beane hasn't figured that out though. He keeps drawing a line in the sand instead of doing whatever's necessary to win a championship.

A lot of the freeze frames I see people post here or on Twitter, there is a LB or CB sitting right over the supposedly open short route with their hips leaning foward ready to drive on it. Do people really think Allen is turning these throws down for no reason? Apparently a lot of fans vastly underestimate the speed of NFL back 7 players and/or want to see all of our WRs destroy their lumbars. Allen did take one of those throws to Shakir yesterday, Shakir took a shot and gained a whopping 2 yards. If Allen hadn't taken that throw you can bet it would be one of those freeze frames making the rounds today. The whole offensive structure stinks. Defenses are forming a wall of coverage right at the depth where they know our awful group of WRs are going to finish their routes. Then those WRs are just turning around and standing still. Meanwhile our supposed X WR is getting taken out of the game with basic 1v1 coverage so we can never punish defenses for selling out to stop the short routes. Our offense basically needs a 65% or better success rate from the run game to be able to function. 2nd and 10 might as well be 2nd and 30. Dorsey's offense got way too boom or bust but at least it was fun to watch, even the lows were interesting. This offense is just boring and crappy to watch when it doesn't follow the exact game script it needs to be successful.

I think it's fair to say he has lost a half step. The arm strength is still all there, the escapability however looks noticeably diminished. We're seeing what the offense looks like when Allen can't pull a rabbit out of a hat every time he needs to. Those unicorn plays have made it easy to ignore a lot of personnel flaws and unfortunately tricked the GM into thinking that the offense was set. We need to bake in some more normal blitz reads. Allen in the past has been his own solution shrugging off free rushers and escaping for a big play, so now that we can't count on that we have to find more traditional answers. Unfortunately it is hard to find those answers when you have zero WRs that can quickly separate. Can't be waiting 4 seconds for someone to uncover against a cover 0 blitz, like he did on the play that ended in an INT. Tyrell Shavers isn't exactly the ideal player you want to be relying on there but that's what this season has come to.

I'm open to anything at this point. The last two games Daboll coached here was the perfect game and the 13 seconds game. We don't have close to the same weapons we had back then but Daboll knows what Allen does well and can get through to him. Of course Daboll also coached the Urban Meyer game and a few other no-show performances so I'm not going to pretend he's some genius, but he can have some value here as a pass game coordinator. We need new route combinations and new ideas. Too many passes are in the direction of WRs that are standing still. Daboll knew how to create passes to WRs while they were still moving.

The most common answers last year were Mike Vrabel and Ben Johnson, and people like you dismissed them for one reason or another. "Vrabel couldn't win a Super Bowl with Tennessee." "Coordinators don't always make good head coaches." So pardon me if I don't assume that you ask this question in good faith. Of course both Vrabel and Johnson have seemingly turned their new franchises around in year one so maybe people on here do have an idea what they're talking about when they make suggestions like that.

When it can follow a hyper-specific game script it scores 30 PPG. The problem is that you can't reasonably expect that game script to work out every single week. So yes I would say it's fundamentally broken. If a defense can nudge us off our only path just a bit, the whole system comes crashing down.

We're cobbling together 12 play drives and the predictable criticism from certain people is that we turn the ball over too frequently. Last year's offensive output may have been a net negative for the long term outlook of the team. It convinced the people in charge and by proxy the fanbase that that historically mistake-free efficiency should be the expected norm every year.

Like I said in my last post - the conversation has devolved to should Allen take the bad option or the worse option? The fact that we're asking that question at all should be where the conversation starts.

To Shavers? No. Pause it when Allen gets to the top of his drop. Shavers has just gotten to the 5 yard line, he has not even made his first move yet. As it is Allen tried hanging in there an extra half second against cover 0 to give Shavers time to try and get open, and that extra half second meant the pass was all arm since he couldn't step into it. Best case scenario here would have been the ball sailing out the back of the endzone incomplete. Obviously that's a better outcome than what actually happened but that's where the conversation has gotten - after Allen dragged the team kicking and screaming into a goal to go situation, does he take the bad option or the worse option? Too many people on here or on Twitter want to focus in on the individual process or result of a single play here and there, because it helps them ignore that the offensive structure is fundamentally broken. It's so much easier to point to one play and say "Allen needs to play better" than it is to accept that the people in charge have made fatal mistakes and there are no solutions coming.

I don't think it's very interesting. Most throws to Coleman are wasted downs. There's no reason to make him the primary read, certainly not in this game where he was a complete no show until their backup's backup was covering him.

You're part of a strange faction on here that is willing to lay blame on Allen but nobody else. Allen has to play better but firing the head coach is an appalling idea. I really don't get it but you can have whatever opinions you want. Luckily the vast majority of the fanbase has woken up to the truth so I don't really feel compelled to engage with it seriously anymore. I'm old enough to remember when people called Matt Stafford an overrated choker. Then he got scooped up by Sean McVay and immediately won a Super Bowl. I'm gonna guess there were a lot of Detroit fans like you who couldn't separate the process from the result.

I think in some sense Allen and Brady are afflicted by the same problem right now. Neither of them trust anything going on around them so they are flailing a bit and pressing to find answers. Neither of them can get into any kind of rhythm because the personnel creates so many limitations. Like yeah we could just run the ball on 3rd and 2 or on 2PCs, but we did try running the ball on an earlier 3rd and 2 and Miami just blew it up with a simple run blitz because they have no fear that we will beat them through the air. We as fans are desperately seeking answers that just don't exist when you have the worst WR room in the NFL.

I'm with you. 30-16 looks a lot better on paper.

Here's the play: Shavers takes a full 4 seconds after the snap to work open enough to where he can even get his head around. Against cover 0 that's not gonna get it done. This is a play where if you had an X you could trust to get open the right side of the field would be an automatic read. Miami sent cover 0 and dared one of our receivers to get open quickly. Shockingly they won that bet.

I don't think it's bad as you say. We're a coaching staff and one legit WR away from being a Super Bowl contender. There are some obvious cuts to make next offseason that will get our cap in decent shape. Not going to be easy as can be for the next guys in charge but they start out with Allen and a solid foundation on both sides of the ball.

Defenses are sitting on our short routes. That part falls on Brady. We must have called mesh 10,000 times this year. The fact that we only have short routes on the menu falls on the WR room.

I would summarize McDermott's failings as a head coach as "he doesn't step outside his comfort zone." The coordinator hires are emblematic of his leadership. He is so focused on rewarding process versus rewarding results. Babich and Dorsey and Brady were already in the building and "proved themselves" at least in his eyes so they automatically got the jobs. He could have hired Klint Kubiak if he wanted to. He could have hired Lou Anarumo or Brian Flores. But those are people he doesn't know personally and he wasn't willing to step outside his comfort zone. And there's absolutely no reason to give McDermott more swings. He keeps hiring people that feed into his worst instincts or don't have the power to stand up to him. So cut off the head or you're wasting your time.

Vrabel has the Pats as #1 seed contenders in year one, with a 2nd year QB who was still a question mark coming into the season. Mike McDonald took over a team QB'd by Geno Smith and has them as Super Bowl contenders in year two. I don't know why so many fans are worried that firing McDermott means we lose the rest of Allen's 30s. You're talking at most about a one season turnaround.

I've said it in a couple other threads, Klint Kubiak gives us our best opportunity to get Allen his Super Bowl run and eventually establish the next chapter after him. Look at what he did with Derek Carr in New Orleans before his career ending injury, and what he's doing now with Sam Darnold. He'd inject a whole new mindset into the organization - build an offense around Allen that can steamroll opponents and run up the score. He tells his head coach "get me Rashid Shaheed" and they get him. Because he knows what wins in today's NFL. He's the next Sean McVay, Ben Johnson, etc. Hire him next year or someone else will and God help us if it's Miami.

Maybe now we can stop making annual threads about how "quietly" or "secretly" good our WR room is.

Yeah he was the last one, 15 years ago and he had a lot of NFL experience before USC. But hey I'm not picky. I just want new voices in the building before it's too late.

I respect your opinion and would take that option over McDermott next year, personally though I'm not big on hiring a college coach. Very different jobs IMO. It's been a long time since that worked out for an NFL franchise.