MPT

Love this argument. Someone must have inside knowledge to state the obvious these days.

Green Bay only gave up 30+ points 5 times, and they lost ALL of them. Atlanta only gave up 30+ points 6 times. They lost two of those, and two of their four wins were against the Saints. Miami only gave up 30+ points 5 times. They lost all of them except one. You know which one. So, basically, you used incorrect data to try and prove that QB's could overcome a bad defense. In reality, they couldn't. EDIT: Just for fun, I looked up the game that the Patriots gave up 30+. Yeah, Tom Brady lost that one too. So, in summary, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Matt Ryan are garbage because they can't overcome 30+ points. Gotcha.

He had 3,000 passing yards last year without Sammy and with arguably the worst receiving corps in the league. During the second half of the 2015 season, they were near the top of the league in QB/WR pairs. I mean... Either you don't bother to actually inform yourself before making these inane comments, or you know the facts and just willfully ignore them.

Well... Not really. Being available is a prerequisite for getting targets. I'm certainly not arguing with your point about Sammy being better than Stevie. That's obviously true. I just don't think a lack of targets is more of a detriment to his production than his injuries are. When he plays, he gets receptions (i.e more than zero). When he doesn't, he doesn't (i.e. zero).

That was a faster release than a standard dropback. Maybe you should focus a little more on the result.

Personal thread needs a personal theme song. I nominate "Whipping Post" since that's what I keep hearing in my head whenever Jeff opens his mouth and asks for more.

Hey, you're the one who wanted to talk about Vick. How many 300 yard games do you think he had? Don't get upset when I use your own argument to absolutely wreck your little crusade. P.S. Andrew Luck and Drew Brees called and said winning is a team stat. They also told me not to whip you so hard that you literally turn into a broken record.

And yet, with that incredible QB coaching, Vick only matched Tyrod's passing stats one year out of his entire career. Most of his other years weren't even close. And here's where you say, "yeah, but he added a lot more production with his running!" And we say, "checkmate."

It's really hard to look tough when you're about to burst into tears over a college football player. Also, the hypocrisy of calling someone a little B word while doing nothing but whining and complaining is spot on.

And yet you won't... stop... talking about it. Do we have to start a new thread every time your tired arguments get trounced? That might push the bandwidth limits.

If you consider 31 points a "lack of production," there is really no reasoning with you. How do you justify giving up 34 points to an offense led by Matt Moore?

I agree with all of that. I just think next year's draft will have a few guys that are between a "Manning" and a "Wentz." That is, teams with high picks won't automatically draft these guys but they would still require a hefty ransom to trade their pick. If the Bills like one of those guys, I'd rather they be in a position to go and get him without crippling our future. With two first round picks, that becomes a lot easier.

The second two have nothing to do with Tyrod. And yes, I suppose if a quarterback scores more touchdowns, his team will win more games. That's not exactly rocket science. But it's not very relevant either. The question is: when the year is over and you're evaluating your strengths and weaknesses as a team, do you try and improve your top ten offense or your bottom ten defense first? Which will have more of an impact?

True, but he still had a better rating than Tannehill and rushed for a touchdown. And that still doesn't excuse the defense giving up 200 rushing yards to one guy.

Yeah, that's been my point all along. Tyrod isn't perfect, but he also isn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs.

Baltimore has a far superior defense. And Tyrod played perhaps the best game of his career against Seattle. We lost that game because of a series of unfortunate events at the end of the first half and, again, an inability to make any defensive stands.

Except this debate is centered on Tyrod's comparison to other QB's. No one thinks he is better than Flacco or Roethlisberger. There are some people who point to the Miami games as evidence that he isn't as good as Tannehill. That point is defeated by the fact that our defense lost those games while Tyrod played well.

Run defense. If we hadn't given up historic yardage to their RB we would have made the playoffs and they wouldn't have. It's that simple.

You wouldn't need to trade anything to draft Rodgers or Brady. If those two were in next year's draft, we would be able to draft either one without trading anything. Rodgers went 24th. Brady, obviously, went in the 6th round. The point is, teams pass on franchise quarterbacks all the time. And they also accept draft trades from other teams all the time. It just depends which team values which players. You certainly don't know that our future franchise quarterback will be impossible to acquire next year. The Browns accepted trades from other teams this year while passing on QB's until Kizer even though they are arguably the most QB-needy team. Maybe the Jets pick up Kaepernick and the Browns and 49ers decide Kizer and Beathard are their guys. You don't know what's going to happen between now and next year's draft, but it's better to position yourself as well as possible instead of resigning to the possibility that you won't get exactly what you want.

Please, for the love of God, help the Tyrod haters to understand this.

Okay, fair enough. But Miami also had the benefit of facing the other three of the bottom four in the league in defensive rushing ypg. Since the Bills and the Dolphins both beat the Browns and 49ers, let's look at the Bills / Dolphins games. Tyrod slightly outperformed Tannehill and vastly outperformed Moore in those games. He also was our leading rusher in the game against Tannehill, so he was clearly the better quarterback in each game. The difference is that we let Jay Ajayi rush for 420 yards. That's insane. That's almost unheard of. If you put an average defense out there against the Dolphins in those games, we win both and go to the playoffs while they sit at home.

I said they needed to be an average defense that gives up fewer than 24 ppg. Allowing 133 rush yards per game is far, far, far below average and will never get a team to the playoffs, whereas much worse QBs than Tyrod have made it to the playoffs and indeed won Super Bowls. If you think rush yards per game is a random defensive stat, then maybe you shouldn't be discussing this at all. You're out of your element, Donnie.

That's funny. Okay, so you want to tank the season before it even starts. I'd rather not be a part of that embarrassment.

29th in rush yards per game. That's a death sentence. Who needs points when you can just hang onto the football all day long?

Uhh come again? This sums up the absurdity of the Tyrod haters extremely well.