PolishDave

The only place I can find on NFL.com where Tyrod is ranked 30th is if you look at passer ratings here. And that 30th ranking is out of 63 because that list includes all QB's that have thrown passes in 2016 including backups. So that puts Taylor just above average. Most people reading this discussion probably think he is ranked 30 out of 32 which he is not. He is ranked 30 out of 63. Big difference there. I know it is not your stat. It is Nitro's. Just wanted to be clear. If I am not looking at the right ranking chart, please let me know. That is all I found. If you look at how the Bills are ranked in passer rating compared to other NFL teams then Tyrod is ranked 21 - and that seems a lot more accurate doesn't it? You ended up with the right answer anyway!

What makes you think an offense designed by Lynn is going to be much different than Roman or head coached differently than Rex? Just because he is a different dude? He is still a ground and pound guy. Isn't he? And Rex didn't hire him because Lynn thinks so much differently than Rex. Do you think?

Thanks bloke. No need to go out of your way. I was hoping somebody was going to link to some public stat that is available for everyone to find. I searched high and low on Google to no avail. I see some places have subscriptions where you can get more detailed info. And I understand why they charge for it. I'm just surprised the NFL and ESPN aren't giving that info away to fans, more so ESPN than the NFL. The majority of the stats they do have publicly available are not the best tools for accurate analysis. General analysis yes - deeply insightful analysis no. But hey, its free to me so I guess I can't complain. I imagine in Vegas there are probably guys measuring every stat including ones most of us have never thought of.

That is the part of this discussion that a lot of people are overlooking in this thread. And the OP specifically pointed out the weakness in pass protection not run blocking. You sir, are very level headed. Dang. That bolded part is the most interesting part. All good stuff though. Thanks for all the extra info. It is enlightening and much appreciated. Thumbs up bloke!

You can't install an entirely new offense once the season has begun. You would likely lose a few games early on to stupid mental mistakes because the players don't have the new system down well enough. If Bills had lost a few more games early on, Rex would have most likely already been fired and this season would have been a complete disaster. But you can make adjustments and install a new play here and there. Don't know if they did any of that or not. By the sounds of it - I think they have thrown out some of Roman's plays (adjusted) but not added any new ones - at least they haven't said it if they did. Nobody knows what Lynn's offense would/will look like. We can only guess. But we do know he is a run first guy like Roman and Rex. If you like that sort of thing, then maybe Lynn is your guy.

Should have put the name Moore in the title so it doesn't just become another Tyrod thread.

Awesome chart! Bills are definitely good at running the ball. Do you have one for pass protection? Based on these links, I think the pass protection chart might be a bit ugly - probably a lot uglier than people think http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKS_ALLOWED http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/nfls-best-worst-lines-cowboys-seahawks-rank/story?id=44212949 I'd really love to see a chart that ranked teams by percentage of QB pressures - ratio of total number of QB pressures to total number of pass plays. I think that would be the most accurate stat for offensive line pass protection performance. Still wouldn't account for qb influence, schemes and number of blitzes, but I think it would get about as close as you can to an overall pass protection measurement.

Yeah I know there is some of that. Still doesn't mean the O-line should get extra credit for the extra time he buys by leaving the pocket. The point of this particular discussion is determining whether the o-line is good or not. And that stat is a very misleading stat considering the Bills have a quarterback who is probably near the top of the league if you measure the percentage of pass plays where he leaves the pocket.

That stat would be useful if they only measured plays where he throws from the pocket. When you have a qb that leaves the pocket (probably the most in the NFL) you are going to have that stat skewed way to the long side. Which then makes it a meaningless stat for judging how good the offensive line is at run blocking. Every time Tyrod leaves the pocket due to pressure, he extends the time to throw by at least 2 seconds on that play. That should be a negative against the offensive line, not a positive.

Its my firm belief that the first guy to bring up the race thing is in fact a racist. That means you dude. Dick move.

You make some fair points. Wish you would drop the EJ thing though. People hold that against Whaley like it was the ultimate mistake. It wasn't. And I don't like EJ as a QB at all. Here is why it wasn't a mistake - Nix (because of his debacle with the Fitz situation) put the Bills in a position where they HAD to draft a quarterback. Fans were screaming to draft a QB. The entire QB situation was a giant cluster flop. And it was not Whaley's fault. He walked into that situation here. So he made a decision about what QB he thought was the best in that draft and then went after that QB. Ok. EJ didn't pan out. Neither did any of the other QB's in that draft. So it didn't matter which QB he would have drafted. They were all misses that year. They gave EJ enough time to see he wasn't going to cut it. So he is riding the pine in favor of a more talented guy now. Whaley handled that QB situation with EJ as good as anyone could have expected. Can we just quit whining about that draft for Christ's sake?

And now the discussion moves from politics to race. Nice job.

All I have to say about this is Go - MERRRIIIIICCCAAAA!

I don't anticipate Tyrod ever becoming an above average passer. An elite passer would be making more plays in the passing game even if the system is poorly designed or even broken. The whole point in my posting all this stuff about Roman's offense is to refute the argument where Tyrod haters use the "passing yardage ranking" as their pillar argument for Tyrod not being a good enough quarterback. It is asinine to use total passing yards ranking as a judgement of a quarterback's passing ability when that quarterback is stuck in a offense that has been near the very bottom of the league year after year every year for the last 6 years in a row. If you don't realize how bad Roman's offenses always rank in terms of passing, then it is very easy to just blame the qb for everything. That is not fair to any of those qb's including Tyrod. Tyrod could totally fail to master a passing attack in a pass heavy offense too. Or he could fail in a passing attack that is traditionally average in passing year after year. We don't know because we haven't seen it. He has only had the chance to be QB in a ****ty bottom of the league passing offense. When you judge Tyrod, you have to judge him through the lens of the environment he is playing in. And the truth is that he is playing in a Greg Roman passing offense that has always been near the bottom of the league in total passing yards.

Kansas City fans (who have seen the playoffs last year and this year) disagree with your assessment of the quarterbacks.

You can't know why without knowing exactly what the play is and how Tyrod is being told to execute it. And NOBODY here knows that. If the coaches thought he was not executing the plays as they are called, then I think they would have sat him (at least for part of a game) and let EJ try to do it. They haven't done that which tells me that they think Tyrod is doing at least okay in what those plays are designed to do. Fans imagine that every NFL passing play is executed like backyard football where the QB drops back and surveys every receiver and chucks the ball to the most open guy. That isn't how it works. That only happens when there is a broken play. And once a play is broken, you can't expect perfect execution. You can't expect a QB to see every open guy in a broken play. Usually the field is cut in half because the qb is out of the pocket and on the run. It is entirely possible and even very likely - that the passing game is too complicated by design or just poorly designed. History suggests it is one of those two or possibly both. No Roman offense has ever had an average or better passing attack. You want a list? Here is a list of all the quarterbacks who couldn't get an effective passing attack going with Roman's offense: Tyrod Taylor EJ Manuel Alex Smith Colin Kaepernick Colt McCoy Blaine Gabbert Troy Smith Scott Tolzien Josh Johnson How many more quarterbacks do you want to rotate through a Roman system and watch fail as a passer before you shift your blame more towards the coach and the design of his system? He couldn't even get lucky and approach average with any of these guys. If Roman was any good at all at designing a passing game, ANY good at all, don't you think he would have found a little success with at least one of those guys? His highest success in passing was getting to rank number 23 in the NFL. Dude's passing offenses fricken suck. It is irrefutable.

You think you have good odds of drafting a player that is better than Sammy if you got a first round pick for him? Dude. You're nuts. Why would you want to get rid of one of the best players this team has had in years? How about the Bills design an offense that is intended to get the ball to all of its best weapons - not just Shady. If the coaches felt that Tyrod isn't capable of getting the ball to Sammy when running intermediate routes, which I doubt they think, then they should be running plays designed to get Sammy the ball often in quick passes like slants that involve picks and rubs. But either very few of those plays exist in this Roman designed offense or else Lynn isn't calling them. Both of those situations are unacceptable. It is the coaches' job to solve that.

Well he certainly isn't in an environment where he or any other QB not named Tom Brady is going to put up big passing numbers. In fact, he is not in an offense where decent quarterbacks are going to put up even average passing numbers. Face it. You can't even refute these numbers. Roman's offenses' passing rating over his entire career as an offensive coordinator 2011 - ranked 29 2012 - ranked 23 2013 - ranked 30 2014 - ranked 30 2015 - ranked 28 2016 - ranked 31 so far Yep. All Tyrod's fault. You can't talk your way around those stats.

Czy pan jest polakiem?

Nope. He sure didn't. Isn't it also a little suspect that Rex fired the guy who would be most likely to replace him if things didn't go well this year? Didn't Rex sign up for a good run game and crappy pass game when he brought in Roman? He knew his record and his style. Rex must have agreed with Roman's philosophy to a large degree. Funny thing is Roman actually delivered the same thing he always had. Yet he got fired after a couple games. (i'm glad he is gone because I don't particularly like his style of offense which is to focus your energy on the run game while neglecting the passing game.) And we kept questioning why the ball isn't being thrown more. And why the Bills aren't taking any deep shots. And fans assumed that it must be Tyrod's fault because we just assumed no coordinator would create a game plan that didn't involve a substantial amount of deep passing. But history shows us that Roman's offense has always lacked a passing attack right from his very first year as a coordinator. This was designed to be a run and stop the run team. We got the first part. We did not get the second part.

Do you know how high Greg Roman's offenses have ranked for passing attacks? 2011 - ranked 29 2012 - ranked 23 2013 - ranked 30 2014 - ranked 30 2015 - ranked 28 2016 - ranked 31 so far Yep. That is clearly 100% Tyrod's fault. Stop pretending this is an awesome passing offense that Tyrod simply can't execute. No quarterback has ever executed a Greg Roman passing attack to any meaningful success. No quarterback ever. In 6 years. Not one. In fact the words Greg Roman and Passing Attack are Oxymorons. But yeah. Tyrod sucks. Cut him. Let's replace him with some random schlep off the street. They will be better for sure. Any rookie will do. Doh!

Love it when other people notice such things and point them out. Many of these bastards are guilty of doing this type of thing. Can you think of a less respectable profession than being a sports writer pretending to have something important to say when most of the fans in their area probably have an equal if not more interesting take/analysis of their team? No wonder these guys twist stories so much. If they don't, they will be mostly ignored. Some reporters might be bungholes. But people pay attention to the bungholes as long as they have a catchy headline or a controversial take. And the bungholes get paid for eyeballs and ears not for being truthful. My guess is that editors also bastardize the original headlines in order to attract more attention. So some blame falls on them too I am sure.

I agree with you. I wish I could sit in on a few practices during the week and see how much time they spend rehearsing run plays vs. pass plays. None of us really know how much time they devote to developing and improving the passing game. But you can bet whatever amount of time that is, it certainly isn't enough. That is on Rex and his staff. They are pretty darn good at designing run plays that this team can execute most of the time. They are very bad at getting this team to execute any kind of serious passing attack. It isn't because Tyrod is incapable of throwing the football. It is quite possible he isn't capable of executing the passing game the way they want him to. But if that is the case, then you better adjust your passing game however you need to in order to get production out of the best quarterback on your team. Coaches get a big fat fail in that category. Sammy could/should be getting a play action home run pass thrown his way every single game on against a defense that is committed to stopping the run. If the coaches were committed to such things, then you would see it more often in games. The coaches obviously don't see that as a priority. Otherwise you would see it more. We would be getting some PI calls deep down field and maybe even get some deep completions too.

Then you have an issue with the design of the offense - a.k.a. coaching philosophy - and that is on Rex and the Offensive Coordinator who designed this offense - Roman and also on the guy calling the plays - Lynn I happen to think that is exactly where most (not all) of the blame should fall.

Yup. Greg Roman is the exact opposite of a passing attack genius. Roman is the guy you hire if you don't care about passing the ball much and you want to have a dominant running attack. And that is exactly what the Bills have right now. And yet everyone seems to think it is automatically all the QB's fault that the Bills are near the bottom of the league in passing yards. History suggests otherwise. And we don't know if Lynn is going to do what Roman has always done or if he is going to put more emphasis on passing. It is a giant question mark. Based on everything we have seen, it looks like he is going to trend more towards Roman style.