Buftex

My Bills years start in 1972, being born in 1965, I missed out on those old AFL teams. However, I can tell you, Cookie Gilchrist left the Bills on very bad terms, and had a grudge agaist Ralph, and the Bills, for decades, until he passed away. From all that I have read of Gilchrist, as great as he was, he sort of set himself apart from his teammates, in an era where that really had no place. IIRC, he took himself out of a game during the 1964 season, becasue he didn't like Saban's play calling. Saban suspended him the next day...Jack Kemp had to convince Saban to let Cookie back. They won the championship that year, and Cookie was a huge part of that...it didn't help though. Saban shipped Cookie off to Denver in the off-season. At a time when black athletes were not as predominant as they are today, Cookie really stood out, and was never afraid to speak up. When the AFL had their All-Star game in New Orleans, black players were openly being discriminated against, by the locals. Cookie, it is said, grew infuriated when he tried to hail a cab...when two or three passed him, a cabbie finally told him, "you have to find a colored cab". There were other stories, of black players having guns pulled on them by doormen at clubs, etc etc... Pissed, as rumor has it, Cookie gathered other black AFL All-stars togehter, and organized a sit-out on the game. To their credit, numerous white AFL all-stars said that they, too, would refuse to play the game, if their black teammates were not afforded the same treatment as them. The AFL, in a panic, moved the game, at the last minute, to Houston. The Bills had tried to reach out to Cookie in recent years, but his venom toward Wilson and the Bills hadn't subsided. He said he would be more than willing to appear at Bills alumni events, only if he got paid. Different times...I have heard/read football writers from the 60's say that Cookie Gichrist may have been every bit as good as Jim Brown (generally considered the greatest football player in the modern era), but his off the field controversies overshadowed his amazing on field performance. if it were up to me, Cookie and Lou Saban (who also left the team on bad terms, resigning in the middle of a season) would go up on the WOF before anyone. But, it is Mr Wilson's perrogative... I was there too! 1987 and 1988 were great seasons...back in my season ticket days. Of course, moved away after the 1989 seson...my impeccable sense of poor timing!

As long as we are taking credit, I was the first one to use the term "fanboys" in relationship to the Losman vs Edwards QB "controversy"...then everyone started doing it...

Metz, I wasn't really aiming that at you... Yes, I agree, 100%, Bennett was a better player, overall than Hansen, in relation to the teams overall success...I know you realize this, but my point was, the Buffalo Bills, as an organization, obviously are using some criteria that isn't simply stats, and Pro Bowl appearences. I think there is a "Buffalo Bills community" element of the process, that is being ignored...if you or I were making the decision, we would probably be making different choices. The Wall of Fame inclusion is, obviously, Ralph Wilson's way of recognizing some of his favorite employees over the years...there may be a panel that votes, but I am sure Ralph has the power of veto...if not, Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist would be on the wall. It is not mandatory that every team has some sort of wall of fame, or ring of honor, they do it as a way of giving a nod to the people they like best. Arguing a players merits for the NFL Hall of Fame are a bit more legit. I don't understand all the quibbling...hell, if it was up to me, Steve Freeman would go up there...why not take Bob Kalsu off the wall? What did he do on the field? Nothing! Off the field? Ah...see? I know you didn't run down Hansen, but there are people here comparing his contributions to (obviously) lesser, players. It is just silly. As they say, it is what it is...an honor the franchise gives out to guys that they want in that club. I understand, and agree, with the Simpson thing. However, Simpsons transgressions, as horrific as they may have been, happened well after his days as a Buffalo Bill. And, I probably don't need to remind you, he wasn't found guilty in the case in question...with the Bennett thing, Marv Levy, if I recall correctly, had to go to court to testify on Bennetts' behalf, as to his character. To an older guy like Wilson, especially, that may be a litte unseemly.

One thing that always pisses me off about TSW, people here have this need to run down great players, like Hansen, to try to prove their point...

Nearly any song by the Beach Boys.

Okay...I thought that is what you meant...but that is not at all how I remember things...quite the opposite in fact.

And I am sure that is what Obama will do...he will have a "Mission Accomplished" sign hanging behind him?

Gotta admit (so you don't need to pronounce me an "idiot"...I got that!) I am not sure what you mean here.

This thread is rediculous...

To be on winner?

A game of inches...

Um, you can disagree with how the decision is made, but you (or I) don't make the decision...I am not arguing that Phil Hansen is the greatest Bill ever, or that he belongs in the Hall Of Fame, but the criteria you set, is not the criteria for the Buffalo Bills Wall of Fame!

That is exactly what the Buffalo Bills Wall of Fame is not! That is what the NFL Hall of fame is! Comparing Hansen to Ryan Denny & Carwell Gardner is taking the dis-respect for Hansen a little too far..

Yeah, but I think the Wall isn't necessarily only for playing ability...it is, in no small part, reserved for guys who were good players, but also represented the franchise well. I am in no way making the argument that Hansen was a better player than Bennett (Biscquit is one of my all-time favorites), just that the Bills (Wilson?) may not feel that he meets the same criteria that Hansen meets. Also, I think you are kind or downplaying how good Hansen was. He got better and better as his career went on, as I recall. I suspect Ruben Brown may make the WOF at some point too...and Moorman. Ruben had his one run in with a O-line coach in his final season, but was a great (very underrated by Bills fan) player, and a good representitive for the franchise. I would also argue that maybe your guy, Metzelaars could go up on the Wall...but they will eventually run out of wall space!

Turns out, being president doesn't afford you the luxury of focusing on one thing all of the time...

I think it is kind of crazy too...Hansen's best years came much later in his career, IMO, when the Super Bowl glory had already faded. Bennett, IMO, is really underrated. He did have some unsavory off the field issues, as I recall...that may be part of it. I think the WOF honors players who were big in the community, as well as on the field. People in Buffalo don't seem as warm and fuzzy about Bennett, and he doesn't seem as warm and fuzzy about Buffalo. I know Hansen still does charity work in Buffalo, and is active as a Bills alumni. FWIW...

Looking good for you right now Crayonz...

Great mimes blink at lights

Using Simons' example, you aren't likely to figure it out!

That has to be it..

Torczon? Tracey?

Mike Stratton?

Oh, of course, John McCargo! Tom Sestak?

Yeah, I couldn't remember one, but, the last 10 years kind of a blur... I am fairly sure that Bruce Smith never recorded a regular season safety...I think his only one was the one on Hoestetler in SBXXV. Could it be Cornelius Bennett? I will bet it is a defensive back..Nate Odoms?