simpleman

:thumbsup:

I do really think there is a lot of difference between being a starting QB in the NFL and a Franchise QB. But a lot of posters on TBD do not seem to make such a distinction between having a starting QB and having a Franchise QB starting.

Franchise to me would mean that the player has unique talent among NFL QBs. He has all the tangibles and intangibles it takes to be a superior QB for years to come, not just a quick shot at the playoffs. Of recently drafted QBs I would say that Luck & RGIII have highest potential to be Franchise QBs. They have all the tools and have shown them on the playing field. As impressed as I was with Wilson, he might become one. Kaepernick might be. Time will tell. The Panthers hope Newton actually is one. Miami is taking a huge leap of faith that Tannehill might become one. Thank God it was Jags and not us that thought Gabbert was a Franchise QB. I was so relieved the Bills took Dareus when Miller was gone. A Franchise QB has the physical and mental skills to excel at QB in the NFL. He has the personality, leadership skills and work ethic to do what it takes to take the team to the big dance, hopefully more than once. He is someone your team plans their next 5 to 10 years around. When you draft someone for the offense the first thing you consider is, how does he make your QB and your team better? You draft future players, release players, sign FAs, all based around your QB. Your offensive system revolves around getting the most out of his strengths and avoiding his weaknesses. A QB can be an average QB and still not be a Franchise QB. He can be a caretaker, he can be good at avoiding mistakes that hold your team back. He can play not to loose and let the other Franchise players at other positions on the team do their job and propel your team toward the playoffs. He can possibly even win a few games for you and take you to the playoffs. He could even help a good team overall squeak into the SB. But you don’t depend on him to play at that top level year after year. You just expect him to not loose games for you. You don’t build an offensive system or draft/sign players for the future based on him being there. That is the difference to me between a passable NFL QB and a Franchise QB.

The question is do you take a QB with the 8th pick in the draft if you are not very sure he will become your Franchise QB? Do you think there is a legitimate Franchise QB in this years draft? Who?

Thumbs nose You can when the top two QBs are actually 2nd round maximum talent in a draft full of extremely questionable and mediocre QB talent.

As many have said, what teams pick two QB's with top 10 picks two years in a row? While I see Barkley and Smith as both potential average starters in the NFL, I don't see either as a Franchise QB. If we pick a QB with our 8th this year, we unfortunately will not pick a QB with our first next year. And next year is when the potential to pick up a bona fide Franchise QB is greatest. No one expects great things with Kolb, just that he at least be average, which he has already proven he can be at times. We realistically are not in the hunt this year anyway. Let's try to trade down, and if can't, fill our holes at lb,wr, te, ol, cb and pick up a Scott or a Brey with a 4th or 5th. Build a team and develop continuity and then go all in next year for a shot at a bona fide Franchise QB

Okay, for good or bad we signed Kolb as a FA to help with our hole at QB. Hopefully we will sign a rookie QB by round 3 in the draft. We still have a huge hole at WR that is unfulfilled. Hopefully we will sign a WR in the first 3 rounds to go with our rookie QB signing. But we still have a huge holes at WR. For relatively low cost with possible high upside mid level FA signings I recommend 1, if not two of the following for an upgrade at WR: Domenik Hixon, WR, Giants. Age: 28. Ramses Barden, WR, Giants. Age: 27. Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Browns. Age: 26 How about any other recommendations for relative low cost, possible high upside WR signings? They would be to go with our signing a rookie in the draft for our #2 position to go with Stevie, not replace the need for drafting a WR.

So Cordy Glenn is a "hill of poo"?

While the concept is sound, I emotionally have a problem with sitting out yet another year already. While it no doubt would be best for the team in the long run, I don't think I could endure the sacrifice this year after all the other consecutive miserable years we have endured.

Looks like we won't be getting a TE in FA. We have so many holes and so few picks I can't seeing us using one on a TE unless it is a 5th or 6th. I say sign a barrel load of UDFAs for training camp and let them sort it out. Maybe one of them will be a passable fill in until Chandler is healthy. I don't see that we have any other choice at this late point in FA unless we want an old guy heading down the the wrong side of the hill. Actually we could kill two birds and sign a barrel load of UDFA QBs and let them throw to the barrel load of TEs in camp and see if anything clicks, you never know.

I like either Scott or Bray if either is still there in the 4th as developmental QBs. Not as options we would expect to be starting QBs this year though.

And this my friends is what is called "blind optimism". Excited about a coach that has not done anything yet, unconcerned about the lack of talent, not concerned about FA signings or draft selections. Just excited by the possibilities of their own imagination unencumbered by the harsh realities of facts and history because the new coach has no real history as a NFL head coach to contradict their imagination. Sort of like a young child on Christmas or Easter, waiting for the Easter Bunny to bring them candy and Santa to bring them presents.

In the discussion of QBs and trading down I think a lot of people are not thinking this through totally. If I was the GM and Smith was there at 8 I would probably have to take him. I don't think he is a Franchise QB, but he has a good chance of becoming a competent QB, so I would feel the pressure and I would grudgingly take him. Those that believe that the Bills are in trouble if Smith and Barkley are gone at 8 are looking at this all wrong. If Smith and Barkley are both gone by 8, it means the value of our 8th pick just increased dramatically to other teams. There is so much bonafide talent in this draft outside of QB that if two questionable QBs are picked before us, the chances are that at least one top five level talented player will still be there for the taking, probably more. Our chances of getting a very beneficial offer for our pick just skyrocketed. It would be the best thing that could happen to us. We could get an extra late first or early 2nd pick and still get a decent QB pick and a WR to go with him. We would have the other picks for an LB, a guard, and maybe a TE. Or we might even luck out and also pick up Scott or Brey or Dysert for a developmental QB project. And it would save us from ourselves from being one of the teams that panicked and took a QB who was way too risky and way too low a value for an 8th round pick.

It all comes down to whether you believe there is a QB in the draft that has a high possibility of becoming your Franchise QB. Personally most experts and even people like myself do not see any sure fire QBs in the draft this year. The only one I would be comfortable taking with such a high value pic as our 8th is Smith. And while I see him as having a high probability of becoming a competent QB, I don't even see him as having a high probability of becoming a Franchise level QB. After him the opinions are split all over the place about their ranking. Therefore I would not worry about what other teams do. One of the 2nd level QBs will be there when we pick in the 2nd. They all are high risk picks, so choose the best from those available and hope for the best. Personally I think our best hope is to trade down for a late round first and another first or a 2nd plus some later round pick and choosing the best in the late 1st. The difference between the quality of the QBs after Smith is not that apparent. Unlike last year when I was so excited that Wilson might actually fall to us in the 3rd, none excite me at any level that I would be crushed if they were drafted ahead of us.

I used to be in the draft two camp. But upon further review, I think our best hope is to trade down in the first for either a late first and an extra late 1st or 2nd round and other later round pick. With the late first we grab an available QB. We fill our holes with the rest of our draft. Our needs are so great and we need so many picks. We give our rookie QB the whole season to prove himself, don't pull him too soon. We are not in the SB hunt this year anyway, let's be realistic. If he does not work out, we shoot for the moon next year at QB when the talent is actually there.

We need a TE this year, not sure about our own TE healing and we consider signing another that may not heal or be completely ready for this season. Sounds like more of a possible 2014 help than for this year. Was not worth 5+ million even before his injury. Definitely a no unless it is a low value signing with no guarantee and high performance incentives. That way if he is healthy, he earns what he deserves. If he can't come back from the injury we don't waste our cap on a gamble. I still think of Merriman when I read this. Like Merriman, he might never come back to his pre-injury potential. With Merriman I was Okay with the risk, since we had no cap issues. We are tight at cap this year, so I am not ok with this. We need a functioning TE NOW!

Right. If you spend some serious time dumpster diving and really moving things around you do have better odds of finding something edible than if you just sneak a peek inside a couple times.

Laurent Robinson, WR, Jaguars. Age: 28, if signed to an incentive rich contract due to injury history would be an upgrade. Not saying they are better, but they are probably at least equal to him and could be signed for less money. Granted Nix has fiddled away while all the good ones have signed, but there are still plenty of 2nd tier guys who are at least as good a WR as Smith and we could probably get at least two of them who are at least as good as him for a total equal to his cost alone. For instance: Domenik Hixon, WR, Giants. Age: 28. Ramses Barden, WR, Giants. Age: 27. Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Browns. Age: 26

According to the cap chart the Bills have only $15,548,229. Of that about 6 million will be needed to sign our drafted rookies. Out of that we need to replace Lev and fill some of the other holes we have. We only have 6 draft picks, and realistically only 3 of those picks will probably be starters. We have a lot of holes to fill with that $10 million dollars. I don't consider that very much cap space. We are going to need more cap room or just end up with dumpster diving scraps again. Smith is about the only one on the team left with any cap space who does not contribute any where near the value of his cap space without a huge dead cap hit (Like Anderson). In a perfect world i would keep him, but in the tough spot we are in I see little choice but to let him go if we can find an upgrade at WR in FA.

Strange, look up the depth chart, I only see him listed as wide receiver, there are only two on QB,Jackson and Corp What I'm saying is, if we can find a better WR FA value at 4 Million, we could sign them and only spend 1 Million in valuable cap space by releasing him. I would rather have a valuable receiver with a proven record than burn it on someone who has not been a great contributor as WR for the Bills . We would be releasing him to sign the better WR. I can't believe anyone would consider him being worth a 4 million contract as a WR. He was signed as a QB for the wildcat, not a valuable WR.

Everyone keeps saying we don't have the cap room to sign FAs. Yet we have an opportunity to release Brad Smith and use that 2.75 Million cap savings to get a receiver with more impact. He is set to get 3.75 Million this year, in the situation we are in, is he really a good value? Next year he is scheduled to make well over 4 Million, so we probably will be releasing him then anyway. I just have not seen much value from him in the past and even less in the future. He has done nothing any better that a run of the mill receiver couldn't do who got vet minimum. Unless, someone out there still believes the wildcat is still a valuable option beyond being a gadget play used a couple of times a year. It proved so effective last year for us, lol. I cant believe we could not get a FA receiver for around 3 million that would have more impact than he has. Aren't their any decent productive FA receivers who are better than our current WRs (beyond Stevie) to be had for 3 Million?

Get this straight. NFL football is a business. The Bills are a business organization. A business organization exists to make as much profit as possible. Brandon is upper level management. He is not the owner. In upper level corporate politics, if you want to flourish and survive, not only do you have to do a good job of contributing to the purpose of the organization - making a profit, but you have to CYA and have plans like deniable plausibility when things go inevitably wrong. People don’t sit around singing KUMBAYA in corporate politics, it is cut throat and no one but you is concerned about your personal survival. To believe that Brandon would not keep Nix around this year as a scapegoat is not a crazy thought. But a rational, logical, calculated and reasonable assumption. Considering the alternative is that even though the incompetence of Nix is clear from his past actions, Brandon just keeps him around because Brandon is such a nice guy and he does not want to hurt Nix’s feelings, it makes a whole lot more sense. And as someone who has a degree in Business Management and Marketing, I understand that marketing is figuring out the best ways to convince your audience, (your customers, in this case the Bills Fans) that they should buy your product. Convincing you that they are doing everything they can and spending everything they possibly can to field a competitive team, so you will buy their product is their main goal. (Even if actually they are not, and they can make more profit by spending less money) Knowing everything you can learn about your customers so you can best convince them to give you their money, instead of someone else, is what it is all about, period. To us it may be about a game and a sport, but to them it is all about business. None of this is about a conspiracy, it is about business. It is about the real world. Who said anything about having illusions about the Bills going to a Super Bowl anytime soon? Your arrogance toward those that have opinions you don’t share is appalling and insulting. You calling anyone you disagree with “delusional” and “being a 4 year old having tantrums” shows you are the one with maturity issues. You may disagree with a theory that is rational and logical, but you need to learn how to offer your theory and the facts that justify it, without reverting to just spouting your opinions and saying insulting things about others.

I never thought about it that way, but knowing Brandon's ego and the Bill's history, I think you are definitely on to something here. The perfect scapegoat for the FO to continue to spend as little as possible, without looking too cheap. Offer a substandard product and then when the Bills yet again do not field a competitive product, they can still continue to blame the old guard, and Nix. When the fans turn ugly at yet another wasted year, the FO can blame "old" Nix, and the fans will eat it up. The rabid Bill's fans will satisfy themselves gorging on Nix's carcass when he is when sacrificed and tossed to the angry crowd. And Brandon can smugly sit back counting the Bill's fan's dollars from another extra profitable year. It buys them another year of excuses and gives them time to concoct a new excuse for next years failure to spend enough to actually field a team that is truly competitive in today's NFL. You have to admit it is a brilliant plan, they have had a lot of years learning how to play the fans in WNY. Maybe that new analytics office is actually doing research on the fans, and not the players, learning enough about them to better manipulate and play them, lol.

No, poor footwork, relatively slow, poor decision making, and Inconsistent. You can't teach speed, or decision making. He panics in the pocket when things start collapsing and just dumps the ball. With Fitz at least he had football smarts. But he could not back up those smarts with his arm. Glennon does not even have the smarts of Fitz. And we had enough inconsistency from Fitz for 10 years. Glennon is project, and we don't have the luxury of a project on the Bills. He will not last till the 4 or 5th where you can afford to pick "projects". Too many problems, with not a lot of upside for an early round pick. PASS! A late pick for a project has to have a lot of possible upside. Like Jones, I just don't see a lot of upside for him, what you see right now is probably all you are ever going to get. Now if you were so sure you were willing to give up one of your first two nuts, maybe then we would really believe you were that sure, LOL

How do you think SF would pick Scott with the 34th pick? Scott is a 4th round pick in virtually every ranking I have seen. Walter- Round 4-6 CBS - Round 4-6 Maycock does not even have him in the top 5 Draft Scout - Round 4-5 Bleacher - 9th ranked QB