Mango

The honest answer is actually that Microsoft has more money to spend. They most definitely have the most extensive team in the channel to execute a major product roll out at an enterprise level overnight. Teams was making a huge splash In terms of market share well before the draft. My biggest surprise here is actually that he doesn’t have a docking station with a big 40+” curved monitor or 3 to 4 monitors. I have 4 monitors for work, and I work from home. I’m not nearly as important as an NFL executive.

Belichick has been doing this for years. As defenses got bigger he beat them over the top with Moss and carved them up with a shifty Welker. As defenses have gotten quicker to account for gaudy passing numbers he has been pounding them with the run. He has been just ahead of the curve for 20 years now. It is all about timing your system with the league properly. The Bills were much too late to react in years past. In the last playoffs: 4/12 teams were in the top 12 in passing yards 8/12 teams were in the top 12 in rushing yards Interestingly though 8/12 teams in the playoffs are in the top 12 for PTD 7/12 teams in the playoffs are in the top 12 for RTD Obviously a 1000 foot view, but even with huge passing yardages in the NFL, teams are becoming much more reliant on the run to find success. But they are doing a large percentage of their scoring through the air, regardless of how they rack up yardage.

I get what they tried to do with putting the state inside the “C”, but it looks like a normal “C” that he a stroke.

I could have gotten behind this post if it was only the bolded.

This happens all the time in sports. I know HC at high level NCAA programs who couldn't even begin to explain the nuances of what made them successful. One was actually names an olympic coach but was promptly fired after a very poor quadrennial. Generally athletes who lack the physiological gifts become better coaches, because they didn't just "do" they had to "learn" if that makes sense. A good example is probably Dan Marino. He was never accused of being the most cerebral guy out there, but was a hell of a passer. I wouldn't really want to be coached by him (There is value for camps and lower end athletes, etc). I would much rather take a guy like Brady, Manning, Romo who really internalized the entire game. I am sure a guy like Chad Pennington would be a great mentor because was able to maintain a career after he tore his shoulder apart. Reich and Leftwich come to mind as well. That said, none of this means Palmer is any sort of QB whisperer.

We could basically merge this with the thread talking about using "moneyball" at the QB positon. I guess we are looking at that case study now. Ha!

I don't really get this. Newton was league MVP, set half a dozen rookie records (including passing and scoring), has the most rushing TD's by a QB. His playing style was always going to shorten his career because of his size and speed. Part of his skill set is that he can take on LB's. Josh is doing the same thing. Eventually injury will shorten his (JA) if he does not become a more proficient passer. Both can be streaky and inconsistent when it comes to being a passer. But Newton is much better with the big play, proof being his gaudy passing numbers. He was a quality starter for the Panthers for a decade. I don't think anybody in Caroline is regretting that pick. Cam's worst season (outside of 2019) still outclasses Josh's best year. Newtons best seasons are years away from anything Josh has ever done in college or the NFL. I think just about every franchise would be happy if they had a QB with Cams production for 10 years. Everybody cannot be Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Wilson, etc.

I think you always pay a future HOF player. Brees' first contract was not bad with the Saint. 10M per year. He didn't start to push the scale until he was franchised a few years later. At that point he had grown into a stud already. I think the overarching theme is, you don't pay a Dak or Goff salary for their production, when you could pick up a Bridgewater, Foles, Brissett number. As we see more performances like the Eagles, Rams, etc, and the data in this case study gets larger, I suspect you see less over valued second contracts. I would prefer a situation where we are able to keep Tre, Edmunds, Milano, Dawkins, add an elite pass rusher, and keep a 1a/1b receiving corp. with a tandem of Diggs (who will ask for a new contract) and Brown, and pair with a Teddy Bridgewater-esque player. I think you add a 30/35M QB contract we are looking at a receiving corp that is pretty similar to last years (or Diggs and lesser depth), and we can't resign everybody on the defensive side of the ball.

also this...

Quality additions to the conversation per usual...

So don’t be surprised if we don’t see any growth? Because Mahomes went from a historical to elite year? Or don’t be surprised if we don’t any gains because growth is not linear? I am just traveling down the path you are taking me on...

Wait what? Our second round pick is going to boot 3 different individuals players off the roster? In 3 different roles? Even if he moves up to WR 4, you know we would still carry more receivers than that right?

Your big rebuttal (without actually addressing the question) is that Mahomes had an MVP like year after only starting 14 games, was top 10 in every metric, won SB MVP, and that was such a decline from having an MVP year and being top 5 in every metric, with no super bowl....that we shouldn’t try and get an idea of what our young QB’s individual growth/expectations are (outside of added talent) as he tries to establish himself in the NFL? This is the hill you are going to die on? Rather than just say, I would expect XYZ after another year of development if all things remain equal?

You are dodging the question and shifting the goal posts. But I think you already know that. To answer your question, his stat line dropped from historically great to MVP conversation. Again, we should try to get an idea of Josh’s improvements outside of his supporting cast. That isn’t an argument against him actually improving, because he did. It’s not a hard line, and is a worthy point/conversation. Maybe the better question is, what’s the increased offensive production with the addition of Diggs, and we get the same Josh Allen? Points, yards, etc? I can get behind most of this. He definitely improved and there were some issues with supporting cast. I was more just responding to the blanket statement that seemed to come off as, “you’re with Josh or you’re against him”. The offense needs a large leap from a few positions to be mentioned in the conversation of consistantly above average. QB is one of those positions.

Because it’s important to get an idea of an individuals progression outside of their supporting cast.

Honest question. If Allen returned the entire offense from 2019 with zero changes or improvements, other than his own, what do you predict his 2020 stat line is? What metrics are improved and by how much? (note: none of this is to say he has not improved or will not improve)

It’s a totally different scenario. Bills were coming off of two super bowl losses. One of which Kelly got cocking and stopped handing off the ball, and Reich was at the helm for the greatest comeback in NFL history. I wouldn’t treat it as evidence of a pattern or fault a fan base for voting to keep playing the hot hand.

We’ve really come a long way since the drought. Trent Edwards once said his favorite actress was Dakota Fanning. This is a pre-draft write up in 2006/7 most likely Fanning would have been 12 or 13 which is wild. (I think I remember hearing that the Fannings are family friends of the Edwards and he was just trying to be nice.) https://gostanford.com/sports/football/roster/trent-edwards/4799

Maybe McD should have thought about that before trading their LT and WR1. Or before they failed to resign Woods and Goodwin. They could have taken a minute before they cut Shady for Gore. It’s not like they inherited a roster devoid of talent. They did all that and their replacements were Zay effing Jones and Kelvin “Buffet Line” Benjamin. And who was originally going to throw to this star studded line up you ask? Nathan ***** Peterman. 2018 was an absolute blunder that is nobodies fault other than this regimes. They have rebounded nicely and aggressively, but they, nor Josh, get a handicap because they messed up.

I get it. He is a bit fragile. I also get that players play injured. But not everybody can be Favre. Injuries add up. A hurt foot can lead to a bad hip. A bad hip might not let you plant correctly to avoid a tough hit. Just reading through his entire history, I would not be surprised if the guy starts in September he breaks in half by October. Production aside, if the guy took a year or a season to get his body right, he could probably play for a decade. This kinda tough guy/iron man trash from “old school” football guys is total BS and has probably ruined more careers over the years than Tua’s.

They guy hasn’t played football in what? 4 months? And he can’t pass a physical to play? At what point do we start pointing very serious fingers at the staff at Bama?

It can happen from just super quick natural gains as well. Although I would guess this is from PED's.

I also think he might be the best QB from that draft. I know he isn’t in the league anymore, but it’s not because he wasn’t on a roster, it’s because he decided to retire rather than be a career back up.

Fair point if we are casually discussing players and drafts. But to make the point about a possible HOF player and a pro bowler on a WORST DRAFT PICKS OF ALL TIME thread is so far out in left field.

Huh? WG rushed for 1100,1200, and 990 yards while he was here. Then made 2 pro bowls after he left. Thats just a wild accusation. You had me until Lynch and McGahee. I can sorta get McGahee. He didn’t play for a year, but he was still good. Lynch was an All-Pro back. We never should have traded him.