OldTimer1960

Some here insisted that he was the bomb.

I understand where you are coming from, but suggest that the "hope for" vs "sure thing" starts earlier than pick 19'in most drafts. Really after the top 5-7 where you find a place regardless of scheme fit, I think you aware looking at fit between what is available and how they fit what you need/wan

By pick 20, you are balancing production vs potential. No doubt, that occurs earlier in the draft. Any draft pick is the "best of your team's analysis" of: production and potential. WRT potential, you have to consider growth potential, potential due to receiving better coaching, scheme fit, ability to cover-up weaknesses.

Or not. I don't know that Jones would be considered much of a reach at the Bills' spot in round one. Yes, we read of other players that are supposedly "higher ranked", but given differences in scheme fits and personnel philosophy, I can see him being in the mix with players like Billings, Rankins, Dodd, Butler, etc. From what I've read, Jones is a high motor, high upside player. I'd take that over a guy like Nkemdiche who you have to hope that you can motivate. Jones has great height and heft and might be a really good option as a 3-4 DE that can slide inside in passing situations. Not saying that I hope the Bills pick him, but rather that I see him as a viable option.

I understand and accept that this is a mitigating argument for Jones, but all that it says is the deck was stacked against him. It does not explain why he struggled in his starts this year. He had starts against some good opponents, but also against Northern Illinois, Hawaii, Western Michigan, Indiana, 3-9 Maryland and a struggling Penn State program. In his great run in 2014, he had Ezekial Elliot, Devin Smith (WR) and Michael Thomas (WR) in his arsenal. In 2015, he had Elliot, Michael Thomas and Braxton Miller - all of whom will likely be top 3 round picks in this year's draft. I am not saying that Cardale Jones can't possibly make it as a NFL QB, but I am saying that the body of evidence suggests that he is a long-shot, regardless of his physical tools.

I am right on the same page as you. Uneasy if the Bills used a 3rd round pick on Jones, but fine if they were to invest their 4th or later in him.

Transcendent? First, the opposition had almost no game film on Jones and next, would it surprise you if the opponent's game plan was to take away the run game and make the 3rd string QB beat them? That doesn't wow me much. WRT Manuel, I am not saying that he wasn't a bit of a reach in round 1, but I am saying that he has a similar tool set to Jones and produced a LOT more in college than Jones did.

The guy that he lost his job to at Ohio State is not likely a NFL prospect at QB, so it would be hard for me to get on board with Cardale Jones as anything more than a late round prospect. I know that he "has all the physical tools", but frankly so does EJ Manuel and Manuel had a LOT more starting experience in college at a high level of competition and Manuel's college stats were better.

I would not touch Robert Nkemdiche in round one. Maybe the off-field issues can be explained/ignored, but he himself has admitted that he didn't play hard all the time. I think the latter is more concerning than even the off-field issues. Even if you can motivate a guy like this to play hard most of the time, he hasn't shown that toughness and want-to that you need late when the game is on the line and in the hands of your defense. I'd rather have a slightly less talented player who wants it than the slightly more talented guy who has shown that he won't give 100% all of the time.

Too many sarcastic comments in this thread. The guy is a world-class athlete and tried to play football at the NFL level. Yes, he was frequently injured, but the sarcasm and snarky-ness are too much. We are all disappointed that he couldn't stay healthy and produce more.

All that I am saying is that it is extremely rare for someone that is Vernon Adams' size to make it as a NFL QB. I don't have anything against Adams, but I think his size makes him a long-shot to succeed at QB in the NFL.

Exciting to look for the diamonds in the rough. I don't see any way on earth that the Bills pick a WR before the 4th round, unless a 21 year old Jerry Rice is there. I think that there is too much need and draft talent at DL, ILB, OLB and ORT to even think about any other position in round 1-3. The comment about draft talent applies mainly to DT or big run-stuffing 3-4 DEs. Much less applicable to LB and OT.

While there is a *small* chance that Vernon Adams can be a good NFL backup, I'd stay away - at least until late in the draft. Just because Russell Wilson looks like a legit NFL QB, does not mean every guy that is 5" smaller than the NFL's prototype can play at that level. VERY few starting NFL QBs anywhere near that small in the last 20 years. Brees, Wilson and who until you get all the way back to Flutie (who was nowhere near a good NFL starting QB).

I am mostly, but not completely on board with this. If Ragland is an outstanding run-stuffer with some positive pass-rush skills, as I have seen him described as, then I could be aligned with his selection, especially if he is the leader he is made out to be. I don't see any pass-rushers that are going to be difference makers at 19 in this year's draft. I like Kevin Dodd, Jarran Reed, and some other of the DLs, but I don't see a pass rusher - certainly none that make up for losing Mario Williams. I am luke-warm on undersized Darron Lee at LB, but HE could be a difference making pass rusher.

I think your point is true, BUT they also have STABILITY in the coaching ranks. No scouting department/GM can keep the cupboard full when the types of players that the (new) coaches want is different than 1-2-3 years ago. It takes several years to turn-over a roster and consistency in what the coaching staff is looking for in their "scheme" is critical. Absent consistency in coaching, the GM and scouts are left replacing players that fit the previous scheme ad infinitum.

I am just saying that I wouldn't take him before the 4th. I agree that some team may very well think that they can teach him to be a good NFL QB. QB is harder to learn than any other position by a significant margin. My view is that it is very difficult to learn to play QB in the NFL - especially if you don't even have much experience at the college level. I would stay away from him.

Everything I've read lists him as a NT and/or DT

Watching all of Cardale Jones' passes wouldn't take very long. I know that he is tantalizingly physically talented, but there really is not much game film to watch. I think it would be really hard to take someone with so little experience before the 4th round.

He would have to bulk up to look like a TE.

I'm not sure that using the Patriots as evidence that this is a great strategy allow us to conclude anything. Through their recent run of dominance it has always been "Tom Brady and his supporting cast". It is hard to think that the supporting cast would have had anywhere the same level of success without Brady. Sure, Gronkowski would be a star on any team, but do you think that Wes Welker or Julian Edleman would have had the same careers without Brady? Trading back and acquiring extra picks can be a good strategy, but it is not as absolute as some are making it out. Sometimes there are some real stars at the top of a draft and a considerable drop off in talent after that - in those cases it might be wise to stay put and take one of the elite talents. Of course, if it is such a good idea to trade back, then how would you ever find a partner gullible enough to trade with you? One more point on NE, at the peak of their dynasty they were good at finding teams that would trade next year's n-1 round pick for NEs pick at the end of round N this year. They did make a lot of hay trading away picks at the end of a given round in the current year for a pick one round earlier next year - sometimes the next year pick ended up being almost 2 full rounds better (eg trade this year's late 2nd for a taem's 2017 1st and then that team does poorly and NE ended up wit a mid first). It infuriated me that NE seemed to find some willing to do that and that the Pats were in a position of enough strength to be able to afford to go without some picks this year in return for better picks in the future

I remember that it used to be a pretty safe pick taking an OL early. I think some of the college spread offenses and the NFL's rule changes to favor more passing have made it harder to project OL from college to pros. I also think that the need to pass block more in the pros pits more stress on OL than in the past

Arizona (where Buchannon plays) has a 260 lb OLB on one side and a 270+ OLB on the other. I think you have to have some size on the field or teams will run you over on the ground. I am not saying that there isn't a fit in the NFL for Cravens, but if you have him playing ILB, you ought to have some othenBIG LBs. The Cards are playing 5 DL-sized guys on D and also have a HUGE 219lb CB in Patrick Peterson on the field.

at 215-225? That is quite outside the prototype. Doesn't mean he can't succeed, but where does the inside run D come from?

I might be way off-base here, but I think this is a big projection to think he can play 3-4 OLB in the NFL at between 215-225lbs. Unless they are planning to move him back to safety, I don't know what the Bills would do with him. Maybe he can play OLB in a 4-3. Aaron Maybin was considerably taller and probably as athletic, but he couldn't carry the necessary weight. I have concerns that Cravens won't be able to, either (at several inches shorter than Maybin).

I am not sure that is true. There have been some tremendous players drafted after the early first round - into later rounds - think Tom Brady, Shady McCoy, etc, but the probability of hitting a tremendous player - or a good starter - goes down the later in the draft you go.