OldTimer1960

Except he completes a low % of his passes. This is supposed to be EJ's fatal flaw, yet Manuel's college completion % was 10 points higher than Cook's. I've seen some video of Cook in which he looks pretty good, but I can't escape his low completion %. Some have argued that he suffered from WR drops and a general lack of talent at the receiver position. If that is true, then it is a fair and mitigating point. I would not hate Cook in round 2, but would be more comfortable with him in round 3. While Tyrod Taylor had a good season last year, you do have to guard against the possibility that last year was his best year. There is the possibility that defenses will clamp down on him now that they have a year's worth of video on him. There are plenty of one-year-wonders at QB in the NFL. A couple that come to mind off the top of my head include Matt Cassell and RG III. I am sure that there are plenty more (for one, Gary Marangi once looked good for the Bills, Trent Edwards, too). I don't know if any of the QBs this year will be good NFL starters and I don't want to invest even a 2nd round pick in someone who doesn't have a significantly higher probability of success than Taylor. However, I do think insurance is needed.

My concern with Cook is with his poor completion %. To compare, EJ Manuel's NFL completion % is higher than Cook's college completion %. Yet people think Manuel is too inaccurate. Almost NO QBs have a higher completion % in the NFL than they did in college.

While over in the Draft QB thread, I am arguing not to take Cardale Jones in the 2nd, I think in round 4 it would be OK. I *might* be able to get onboard w round 3, but that is a stretch, in my opinion. I cut Hackenberg some slack because he played behind such a poor OL. Maybe he would play well if given a better OL and some time to rebuild his confidence. I am not a big fan of Connor Cook, but if there in 3rd, I could understand a shot on him. Prescott later would be OK, too

Manuel 50 yd TD pass to Goodwin: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ao4wNbhH_hc

I just do not think that it can be justified to take Cardale Jones in the second round. He had a nice, not great, 3 game stretch at the end of 2014 when nobody had any film on him and he didn't have to carry a talent-laden Ohio State team. Defenses dared him to beat them. It can be argued that he played very well in those 3 games against good competition, but what happened in 2015 against weak competition to begin the season? 8-5 TD/INT ratio on a very talented Ohio State team with Ezekial Elliot, Michael Thomas and Braxton Miller along with another 1st round pick in Taylor Decker on the OL against not great competition? That is just very hard to explain. I hear the arguments that he was miscast in Meyer's option offense, but he still should have done better against the collection of teams that he faced this year - at least in my opinion. I am not at all confident in EJ Manuel after his 3 years hear, but he has pretty much the same physical tools that Jones has and had a LOT more experience in college with better stats, too. I just can't see spending a mid-2nd round pick on Jones because he seems like such a long-shot to me. I would be hesitant to take him even in round 3. After that, I could get on board with the gamble. Look at it another way, Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins were FAR more accomplished in college than Jones was, yet they were 3rd and 4th round picks respectively.

I don't understand the dislike for Gilmore. If the idea is that he will cost so much to keep that he will destroy the Bills salary structure, then I get it. But if the argument is that he isn't very good, then I don't agree.

I think this is a good rational view.

I see it the same way. Nkemdiche has TONS of talent, but guys like him get GMs and coaches fired. Spence seems like he gets it now, but his poorer than expected combine may hold him back. I don't think I'd take Nkemdiche even in round 2.

Man, I watched Lynch against a good Mississippi defense and I didn't see much that would make me think he is a future NFL starting QB.

I am basically there with you. I would take lower ceiling and higher floor over boom or bust. I think that most anyone that will be available by pick 19 has some risk/projection to them.

Some here insisted that he was the bomb.

I understand where you are coming from, but suggest that the "hope for" vs "sure thing" starts earlier than pick 19'in most drafts. Really after the top 5-7 where you find a place regardless of scheme fit, I think you aware looking at fit between what is available and how they fit what you need/wan

By pick 20, you are balancing production vs potential. No doubt, that occurs earlier in the draft. Any draft pick is the "best of your team's analysis" of: production and potential. WRT potential, you have to consider growth potential, potential due to receiving better coaching, scheme fit, ability to cover-up weaknesses.

Or not. I don't know that Jones would be considered much of a reach at the Bills' spot in round one. Yes, we read of other players that are supposedly "higher ranked", but given differences in scheme fits and personnel philosophy, I can see him being in the mix with players like Billings, Rankins, Dodd, Butler, etc. From what I've read, Jones is a high motor, high upside player. I'd take that over a guy like Nkemdiche who you have to hope that you can motivate. Jones has great height and heft and might be a really good option as a 3-4 DE that can slide inside in passing situations. Not saying that I hope the Bills pick him, but rather that I see him as a viable option.

I understand and accept that this is a mitigating argument for Jones, but all that it says is the deck was stacked against him. It does not explain why he struggled in his starts this year. He had starts against some good opponents, but also against Northern Illinois, Hawaii, Western Michigan, Indiana, 3-9 Maryland and a struggling Penn State program. In his great run in 2014, he had Ezekial Elliot, Devin Smith (WR) and Michael Thomas (WR) in his arsenal. In 2015, he had Elliot, Michael Thomas and Braxton Miller - all of whom will likely be top 3 round picks in this year's draft. I am not saying that Cardale Jones can't possibly make it as a NFL QB, but I am saying that the body of evidence suggests that he is a long-shot, regardless of his physical tools.

I am right on the same page as you. Uneasy if the Bills used a 3rd round pick on Jones, but fine if they were to invest their 4th or later in him.

Transcendent? First, the opposition had almost no game film on Jones and next, would it surprise you if the opponent's game plan was to take away the run game and make the 3rd string QB beat them? That doesn't wow me much. WRT Manuel, I am not saying that he wasn't a bit of a reach in round 1, but I am saying that he has a similar tool set to Jones and produced a LOT more in college than Jones did.

The guy that he lost his job to at Ohio State is not likely a NFL prospect at QB, so it would be hard for me to get on board with Cardale Jones as anything more than a late round prospect. I know that he "has all the physical tools", but frankly so does EJ Manuel and Manuel had a LOT more starting experience in college at a high level of competition and Manuel's college stats were better.

I would not touch Robert Nkemdiche in round one. Maybe the off-field issues can be explained/ignored, but he himself has admitted that he didn't play hard all the time. I think the latter is more concerning than even the off-field issues. Even if you can motivate a guy like this to play hard most of the time, he hasn't shown that toughness and want-to that you need late when the game is on the line and in the hands of your defense. I'd rather have a slightly less talented player who wants it than the slightly more talented guy who has shown that he won't give 100% all of the time.

Too many sarcastic comments in this thread. The guy is a world-class athlete and tried to play football at the NFL level. Yes, he was frequently injured, but the sarcasm and snarky-ness are too much. We are all disappointed that he couldn't stay healthy and produce more.

All that I am saying is that it is extremely rare for someone that is Vernon Adams' size to make it as a NFL QB. I don't have anything against Adams, but I think his size makes him a long-shot to succeed at QB in the NFL.

Exciting to look for the diamonds in the rough. I don't see any way on earth that the Bills pick a WR before the 4th round, unless a 21 year old Jerry Rice is there. I think that there is too much need and draft talent at DL, ILB, OLB and ORT to even think about any other position in round 1-3. The comment about draft talent applies mainly to DT or big run-stuffing 3-4 DEs. Much less applicable to LB and OT.

While there is a *small* chance that Vernon Adams can be a good NFL backup, I'd stay away - at least until late in the draft. Just because Russell Wilson looks like a legit NFL QB, does not mean every guy that is 5" smaller than the NFL's prototype can play at that level. VERY few starting NFL QBs anywhere near that small in the last 20 years. Brees, Wilson and who until you get all the way back to Flutie (who was nowhere near a good NFL starting QB).

I am mostly, but not completely on board with this. If Ragland is an outstanding run-stuffer with some positive pass-rush skills, as I have seen him described as, then I could be aligned with his selection, especially if he is the leader he is made out to be. I don't see any pass-rushers that are going to be difference makers at 19 in this year's draft. I like Kevin Dodd, Jarran Reed, and some other of the DLs, but I don't see a pass rusher - certainly none that make up for losing Mario Williams. I am luke-warm on undersized Darron Lee at LB, but HE could be a difference making pass rusher.

I think your point is true, BUT they also have STABILITY in the coaching ranks. No scouting department/GM can keep the cupboard full when the types of players that the (new) coaches want is different than 1-2-3 years ago. It takes several years to turn-over a roster and consistency in what the coaching staff is looking for in their "scheme" is critical. Absent consistency in coaching, the GM and scouts are left replacing players that fit the previous scheme ad infinitum.