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Surprised you all agreed. I keep telling my buddy this isn't the year for them. I think at this point it would have been foolish to push all the chips in. The strategy of bulding for 2 years from now is very sound imo. LeBron started slowing down this year and while the Cavs are still the best team in the East that gap is narrowing.

Nice write up! I changed your o-line as you were missing Glenn. I also left ST alone as they generally don't play into draft strategy. Blue = above average Grey = Average Red = below average CB/S/WR are the biggest holes on the roster right now imo. LB is certainly a need but that group is passable. I feel a lot more comfortable with Whaley scraping the bottom of the barrel at that position. 3 big needs then a RT project, LB, extra DB would be our 6 if we were looking for a pure needs based draft for me.

Non qb guys lol. Is there anyone the Bills could grab at 10 besides Mahomes/Tru that you would be good with?

Do you have a list of non qb guys you're interested in or is it Mahomes/Tru or bust for you?

I don't know why but I like the tarts and just can't really get on board with the Gose. They are too fruity I think. I enjoy 1 but then I have to switch off of them.

I know I'll get crushed for this but the C's aren't a very good team either. I mean they're good but not #1 seed good. (yeah I'm a Lakers fan ) They are a year or 2 ahead of schedule imo. If the ping pong balls fall right they could be trouble but the East is LeBron's until someone takes it from him.

Yeah but that won't be until August. No matter who gets picked half at least half the board will be upset. QB - it wasn't my guy or they should stick with TT Any other position - should have been a qb I can think of a handful of polarizing guys too; Howard, Peppers, M Williams, Foster, etc... Well there are 2 logical answers. 6 as in 9,8,7,6, etc... or 8 as in 9,8,7,8,9 but his point stands. You have taken some hard stances. I don't know if I want the Bills to take Mahomes so you can shut up ( all in good fun) or not take him so I can watch what I can only imagine will be an epic melt down.

I have TT pegged about 20th best qb I just happen to rank Wentz below that for now. The league doesn't know whether Wentz can or can't do it yet. I was responding to a post originally that stated the Eagles made a trade and mortgaged their future and it was worth it because now they have their guy. That is why I keep repeating he isn't a sure thing. Simply because he went #2 and a team spent a ton to get him doesn't mean it is the right move or that it will work. A perfect example of this is RG3 in Washington (who actually had a much better rookie year than Wentz). As for the pay cut there is a larger sample size and TT isn't on a rookie contract. I wonder how they would be viewed if the money was the same. Think about this, Wentz would have to improve just to put up the numbers TT already has. I love what the Eagles did this offseason though by getting him weapons. Alshon was a fantastic pick up. They made an investment and now they are doubling down on it. That is smart. The Bills made an investment and as of yet have done nothing to help him. That is frustrating to me and part of what makes me second guess a qb at 10. I've said it before but it bears repeating. You have made up your mind that TT doesn't have it. I haven't yet and I would like to see him given a punchers chance with some talent at the WR position. On an aside though... I have to go back to the attempts and being asked to carry the team. It is just wrong imo. On a per game basis Wentz was indeed 6th in the league in attempts per game and TT was 32nd. That sounds like a huge difference. In reality it was 8.8 attempts per game. 37.9 to 29.1. Looking at it that way it doesn't really seem like that narrative holds up that way either. Those 8 attempts led to an average of 34.9 more yards per game. Again not a gigantic difference. Especially when that boils down to 4.4 yards per throw. This was never meant to be a TT vs. Wentz derailment so we don't have to continue down this path. I just find it strange that by almost measurement TT was better than Wentz last year and Wentz is better? To me that is because he doesn't play for the Bills and he was drafted 2nd overall. Not because of his actual performance.

The point of my post was we do not know if Wentz is a franchise guy and someone that the trade was worth. Yet. He may very well develop into a franchise guy but I don't see how anyone can say it is a guarantee. I do think it strange though that you say Wentz was asked to carry the Eagles offense and that the Eagles are "pleased as punch" with a guy who went for 11 tds and 14 ints over his last 13 games. If he was asked to carry the offense he didn't do a very good job. I think back to Edward's Arm who use to post non stop about ypa being the best measuring statistic for projecting a qb. Wentz had a ypa of 6.23 which was good for 29th in the league ahead of only Brock Osweiler. To my original point, Wentz may develop but he has a LONG way to go before that trade was a win for the Eagles. The bolded is very true. Tyrod gets killed for his lack of production as a second year starter but across the board put up better numbers than Wentz. Wentz "was asked to carry the Eagles" and put up 245.75 ypg. Tyrod was hidden and put up 240.2 ypg. Wentz struggled mightily from week 5 on. It may be growing pains but he certainly didn't come in and set the league on fire. I struggle with what to do at 10. A QB if they work out would definitely be the best course of action but it would also be giving up on this year. I'm not sold on a qb this year but not completely against it. I like Watson and Mahomes the best of the top 4 and dislike Trubisky and Kizer. I like that the Bills are doing their homework on the class as they should every year. It is a welcome change. This is the first year I don't really have a guy I like but a bunch of guys I'd be okay with. Last year I wanted Lawson but didn't think he would last so I was ecstatic. The only other year the Bills grabbed my guy was Dareus. I'm going wait and see this year and just gonna trust that the team has done its homework and picked a guy who can be a stud in the league qb or otherwise.

I've long since given up falling in love with guys in the draft. It usually just leads to disappointment. So whatever the Bills do I'm going to hope it's the right pick. If it's a qb I hope they do develop into a franchise guy. If it isn't a qb I'll hope none of them develop into one lol.

wentz is nowhere near a guarantee to be a franchise player. in fact almost across the board he had worse numbers than TT last year. so your narrative could be correct or they mortgaged their future for a bust or he could be a TT level player.

It could be both. He looked like he was trying to get his hands down which would have made the knees illegal. Then it looked like those knees knocked him silly.

it is really strange to me. there are so many different ways the Bills could go. ill have my popcorn ready though!

I get liking a guy but jeez man you are really laying the man crush on thick with Mahomes and Tru. After the draft I really would like to see some projections for these guys based on their situations by you.

Agree with all of this but want to add: I think the biggest difficulty in evaluating college to pros and specifically with QBs is the mental make up. You are giving someone millions of dollars. Does that sap their motivation (Russell), lead to poor decision making off the field (Manziel), change their personality, will they be able to lead grown men, etc... Much like golf it is the 6 inches between their ears that makes a lot of the difference. It is next to impossible to predict and a big part (imo) of what makes projecting QBs so difficult. Another aspect is the QB position only has a few guys on each team so teams are taking a shot once every couple of years or so. Therefore failures stand out much more. Torell Troup was a bust but in the same draft the Bills got Kyle Williams. James Hardy was a bust but that draft gave us Stevie Johnson. The Redskins traded a ransom for RG3 and start Cousins from the same draft instead. I'm not a grab one every year person, the value has to match but I think teams should stop worrying about hurting their QBs feelings by taking competition. It is the hardest position to play and that to me makes it the hardest position to scout. I'm not convinced that Aaron Rodgers becomes who he is today if he doesn't sit for a few years and get developed by GB. Same with Brady. On the flip side look at Alex Smith. He didn't get quality development until Harbaugh and then took off. Long story short: there is so much more than just play that goes into evaluating and projecting a guy.

Not that hard really. Think about how much discussion that generated. It is also possible he was doing a favor for Peppers agent by bumping the guy up and generating discussion around him for a few weeks.

I will be watching CB4 in tribute to him. If you are a Chris Rock fan it is a must see. Great send up of NWA and gangster rap. Rip Charlie - get to play another bball game with Prince now.

I came into the thread to post this myself. A fantastic Tequila at a very reasonable price imo.

What are your guys thought on Dede Westbrook? As much as I want that info (believe me it is a lot) wouldn't it be counter productive to the team to have that info floating out there? Maybe PM those interested (read me ) instead of putting it out publicly?

Just name 1.

Nobody. Nobody believes that. All of us in the "cot" (has there ever been a dumber term for fans - the guy who invented it is on an involuntary vacation...) have stated repeatedly we believe him to be about the 20th best QB. Jfh is probably the biggest homer on the board (never change buddy love you for it) and he is supportive of the idea of drafting a QB Transplant is a TT supporter and you just quotes a post where he says 16-21. I'm one of the biggest TT guys (wait and see on him) and I have him pegged about 20 and have also said I would be okay with a QB in the draft. The problem is the anti-TT people can't accept that others haven't written him off yet. You guys have made up your mind that he sucks. We haven't. We also haven't said he is a top 10 qb. I'm not even sure I've seen someone say he is top 15. However being the 20th best QB in the league says he should probably be a starter somewhere. He also has only PLAYED 2 seasons. So some of us are hoping he will progress as a qb, some of us aren't sure if he will but want to see, some of us think there are bigger holes on the roster, etc... 2 great posts on both sides of the fence. Thanks for your contributions guys. Some stuff for both sides to think about here. Had to wait until I was on a desktop to give you guys the credit you deserve.

Do you not think that? edit: and after the Kaep link I may be changing my tune on the possibility of it going down as you suppose. Which is why I am wondering if he had the player opt out last year as well.

Are you trotting out w/l as a qb stat again? I thought we talked about this... This is amazing though tell me who you want (2 years starting each both 29 games): Teddy passed for an average of 212 yards per game TT 209 Teddy rushed for 14 ypg TT 39 Therefore Teddy 226 ypg TT 248 edge TT Teddy passed for 7.24 ypa TT 7.46 edge TT Teddy passed for 28 TDs TT 37 edge TT Teddy rushed for 4 TDS TT 11 edge TT Teddy QB ratings 85.2 and 88.7 TT 99.4 and 89.6 edge TT Teddy ints 21 in 849 attempts TT 12 in 816 attempts edge TT Should I continue or did I make my point?

FC this is what I was trying to talk about. As discussed, your narrative is that TT sucks and the rest of the teams in the league think so too. If that is the case why would they risk financial penalty or loss of draft picks to talk contract details with him or his agent? I could certainly see your side if he was an impending FA but he was under contract (albeit an option). I would have to imagine the penalties would be more severe than they were in the Maclin or Revis situation since he wasn't an upcoming UFA. hmm the first with Kaep as an example would fit the idea of tampering while still under contract unlike the others listed. Did Kaep have the opt out option last year too?

I'm paying attention I have to disagree with your assertion that other teams discussed numbers with him. Maybe a "interested/not interested" but I can't see teams sticking out their necks and discussing actual numbers. Going by your idea that he sucks why would a team risk draft picks for TT by discussing contract details? If it is as general as interested/not interested perhaps TT liked the idea of continuing to grow on a team he is used to? In a community he knows (maybe even likes) with an OC that he knows? Maybe the teams didn't have the offensive talent the Bills do? Maybe he actually feels those things give him the best chance to be successful which he needs to be since he bet on himself? Their are a lot of other possibilities besides he sucks and nobody was going to pay him. He restructured and I'm happy about that. It freed up more money for the team, made it easier to move on, and gave TT a chance to cash in again. Speculating on the why is a pointless exercise but not nearly as pointless as pretending that their is only one reason and you know what it is. Seriously. I get if you don't like the guy. I don't get bashing or belittling others because they want to see someone and in turn the team do well. It does nothing but help the Bills if the light comes on for TT or whomever lines up behind center.