first_and_ten

I seriously doubt that anything AW says will affect any of Marrone's future decisions. Marrone is what he is. He's very conservative. His offense is terrible and needs to be criticized, but I'm sure he will not listen to any of it. If he was any good he would have seen that his inexperienced OC was in over his head. It's actually looking more and more like Marrone is in over his head as well.

If the Bills finish 8-8 or better I won't have a problem with the trade at all. That would put them picking in the 15th to 20th spot. Sammy has potential to be great. It's not that easy to get elite Wideouts. Picking in that spot would make it way easier to stomach and probably then would be considered a good trade.

If Orton is the starting quarterback next year, the Bills are going nowhere. Comparing Orton to the play of Manuel is not the standard that we need to go by. Orton has been around long enough to know what you're going to get from him. Mediocre quarterbacking. Folks, there is a reason no other team made a move to get this guy. He is a career backup. I'm certainly not going to sit here and say that Manuel will be a good quarterback some day but they used a first round pick on the guy. He needs to play the rest of this year. They need to find out if there is a glimmer of hope in the guy. What does playing Orton prove? Maybe Marrone wants to try and save his job, but the only logical thing to do is to play Manuel. Then, at years end, Whaley better be prepared to do something to get a decent starter in here. The Orton experiment is a loser.

Fixxer, maybe I didn't phrase my point correctly. Maybe you need to re-read it, I'm not sure which but either way you didn't get what I was saying. I did not say these coaches don't want to win. I was pointing out that the culture in this organization has not placed winning as the number one priority in the past under the Wilson era. Marrone said he wants to change the culture. I merely pointed out that this culrure change needs to happen at the top and work down thruout the whole organization. This includes all aspects of this team. From the scouts to the money guys to the owners, etc.etc. Just because they want to win does not mean they have placed it as the number one goal. I think it's pretty obvious that the whole organization needs a culture change. The current culture is not one of winning. They haven't made the playoffs in 15 years for a reason. It's no accident. It takes time to change this. The Pegulas, I hope will do it.

Where in my post do I say I think they are striving to lose? My post clearly says the problem with the culture on this team goes higher than the coaches and players. Under the Wilson era, I'm not so sure that winnin was always the number one goal. Sure, everyone wants to win, but not everyone makes that the top priority and does everything they can to make sure that this is a quality organization with the goal of winning. That's the culture problem I spoke of. My hope is that The Pegulas initiate this culture change

That's right. Russ Brandon hasn't take alot of the heat for this mess, but it seems he deserves it.

Orton has proven he is not the long term answer for this team What's the point in starting Orton in any more games for this team. He doesn't belong on this team's roster next year. Might as well see if Manuel has learned anything while Orton was the starter. Whaley needs to decide what to do about quarterback next year, that's if he's still here

Manziel was great in college. he used his speed and ellusiveness to succeed. In the NFL he is not the fastest guy out there, There are faster and better athletes on defense in the NFL. How has RG3 fared? The same will happen with Manziel. he will get beat up hard and will get hurt. Look at the best quarterbacks in the game. They can stand in the pocket and deliver. They may not all have great speed, but what they do have is the ability to move within the pocket . They can feel the pressure and avoid the sack. Manziel is not this type of quarterback. he also comes with questionable charachter. I would stay away from Manziel.

Well said. They wouldn't have made it anyway because they have instilled the conservative mindset into the entire team.

I'm not a big fan of Dungy but I think you might be wrong about Cowher. Sure he's been away from coaching for a while but he has remained close to the game. He's not a stupig man.When he coached, he coached with passion, and he knew how to put quality assistents on his staff. Don't you think he has had time to study how today's game works? He is retired from coaching but he still has his mind on the game. Like a good coach, he is probably analyzing all aspects of today's game. The Bills have some very good pieces in place here. THey don't have the franchise quarterback, so who knows if he would find the Bills an ideal place to work. The positives are a new owner with big pockets and a will to win and a now stable franchise. The team is not moving. He has a potentially great defense here. He has some very good weapons at the skill positions on offense. The bills have hired subpar coaches for years. Hiring a guy like Cowher would give the Bills instant credibility. It would let everyone in this organization know that priority one is winning. It would be a signal to all potential free agents that this is a good place to play. THis team wants to be a winning organization. I would love a hire like this.

When Marrone came in, he spoke about changing the culture on the team. The problem is he was only talking this concerning the players and coaches. The culture needs to change at the very top first and then on down from there, not just with the players on the team. The players need to sense that mangagemnt and ownership has a single goal. I think for years under the old guard this was not the case.I'm hopin that the Pegulas will chnge the culture of this team from the Top down.

It's over my friend

I saw it and totally agree with you. They have been calling ticky-tack calls on our cornerbacks at times and they don't call this obvious penalty. It's seems as if this new crackdown on illegal contact has just given referees more room to screw up the games and be more of an influence on the outcomes.If it's a penalty , call it, Period. On another note, I think all interfence calls should be a 15 yard penalty unless it's absolutely blatant.

I had to leave the room in the 4th quarter because my daughter found it funny that "they will always find a way to lose"........

I'm too disgusted to really rant about officiating after this game, but as per usual, they sucked as bad as the Bills offense did.

How many "fire Hackett" threads will it take to make it happen?

Wasn't hiring an acne faced kid as OC innovative enough for you?

Thanks for putting things in perspective. I needed that.

I posted this in the fire hackett thread that was closed so I'll put it here: Hackett should NEVER have been hired. How could they really expect a kid to come into the NFL and run a professional offense? Just a terrible decision. Hackett is not ready to coach in the NFL. Marrone wil pay the price for not going out and bringing in an offensive coordinator with more experience. This speaks to the arrogance of Marrone. He brought in quality defensive guys, so why bring some kid that is clearly in over his head? This is on Marrone, and he will lose his job because of it. And another thing..where was this cutting edge, innovative coach that I heard about when they hired Marrone? Are we sure we got the right Marrone? Is he an imposter? Maybe he's Dick Jauron in disguise?

I for one hope that Orton is playing for Marrone next year.........on another team

I think it's time to go back to EJ.....they were 2 -2 when they made the move.they are 5-5 now....not much progress

Amen brother!!!! JR, they had 6 points at halftime!!! They were not fine. Can you imagine the Broncos or the Patriots saying the offense seems fine wiht 6 points on the board?

I feel your pain. I would be shocked if Mr Pegula does not end up cleaning house here. The coaching tonight guaranteed this I think.

Hackett should NEVER have been hired. How could they really expect a kid to come into the NFL and run a professional offense? Just a terrible decision. Hackett is not ready to coach in the NFL. Marrone wil pay the price for not going out and bringing in an offensive coordinator with more experience. This speaks to the arrogance of Marrone. He brought in quality defensive guys, so why bring some kid that is clearly in over his head? This is on Marrone, and he will lose his job because of it. And another thing..where was this cutting edge, innovative coach that I heard about when they hired Marrone? Are we sure we got the right Marrone? Is he an imposter? Maybe he's Dick Jauron in disguise?