transient

Until they get this franchise straightened out, does it really matter what young QB we bring in to stunt his development? As other posters have pointed out on different threads, you need look no further than Steve Young in Tampa during the Bay of Pigs years versus Steve Young in SF, or Brett Favre in Atlanta versus Green Bay. I'm not saying our castoffs are potential HOFers, just not likely as bad as they seemed at the time. Situation is everything unless you are supremely talented.

Not sayin' he'd be my first choice to blow it all up and start from scratch, more that given the players at hand he might be able to to more with it sooner as they fit a similar philosophy. Indy's not a bad model, though I'm not certain he could attain near the same success without Manning.

It may be your favorite, but don't take it out of context as he goes on to say, rightly so, that "Schonert's case is different because it sounds mostly like he and Jauron couldn't agree on Jauron's offense, and that last adjective is the key. "Jauron's." This isn't even a matter of who knows more about offense, because we assume Schonert is the better versed of the two. It's about who has the say, and in no NFL operation, not even in Dallas, do the assistants dictate terms to the head coach." This is also why I think that it was DJ's call on the firing, and not RW as some seem to think. Edit: Slow typer, AJ1 beat me to it!

Honestly, I don't think it was Ralph's decision. I think DJ weighed his options which were 1) go into the season with TS as OC and almost unquestionably lose your job by week 5 OR 2) fire TS (who by his own admission had significant philisophical differences with DJ) and take your chances with AVP, and still likely lose your job. This move reeks of desperation. RW is known to have wanted it at the end of last season. But from RW's standpoint, the timing makes even less sense. It would be like sabotaging the team you own on the eve of the season. On top of that, TS goes on record ripping DJ after the firing. Then Ralph flies them all to MI to talk about it afterward. Seems more likely to me that this meeting was RW getting everyone in a room and asking WTF are you doing to my team... not something he would have to do if it was him making the call. Take a look at this article and see if you think DJ didn't have reason to make this move on his own: http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/12171445

Also, with regard to AVP and Schonert, from what's being reported personality-wise they couldn't be more different. Chris Collinsworth, who's friends with TS, even went so far as to suggest that noone has a bigger ego. That really doesn't fit with the idea that he craved other people's input. AVP, on the other hand, seems like he really just wants things to work. Hearing him on the radio and in the booth he always seemed very self-depricating and affable, but also bursting with enthusiasm for the game. Like I've stated in other posts, I just hope he has the time to succeed. As far as the QB coach, they'll have to address that before TE gets hurt if this is going to work. Besides just gameday they're going to need to have someone work with him besides AVP, otherwise where is AVP going to find the time to put together the gameplan (versus are we really just going to let our struggling young QB dangle in the breeze while his QB coach works on the gameplan.) They're going to at least need an assistant QB coach or something. Let's just hope that they address this sooner rather than later. Edit: Timely little piece of journalism; http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/12171445

I don't know if he's still interested in coaching, but I wouldn't mind seeing Dungy here. He's not the fire and brimstone type of coach that fans are clamoring for, but he can get animated when he needs to. He'll treat the players with respect, and tends to get the best out of them. It was his team that Gruden won the SB with. We have been building this team toward a similar philosophy that they employ in Indy, and if we have been at all successful it would mean we wouldn't have to overhaul the entire roster to run the type of schemes he's familiar with, both offensively and defensively, as he is the person responsible for the Tampa 2 if memory serves. Just a thought.

What a trash, out of context article. AVP was asked if he was nervous, and he said of course he was, but was also excited about the opportunity. This is what he was hoping for (the chance to be an OC, not the circumstances leading up to it) and it comes on MNF with little preparation. I'd be nervous, too. On top of that this schlub claims with a definitive voice that Ralph ordered the firing, and acts as though he has some pipeline into OBD that our local media doesn't. Finally, he states that the Bills are in disarray like it's a revelation. Cover your own team, likely poorly, and leave ours alone, douchebag.

In the long run, it doesn't likely matter. In the short term, if Wilson made the call, then he is ready to accept the consequences of making the call and will likely tolerate an adjustment period by the offense. If DJ made the call, Wilson likely told him "its your a$$" if this doesn't work, and he's shown the door by week 4-5 if the offense flounders, especially since RW pushed for this very move when it should have been made.

Classic!

I didn't actually forget to mention that. I glossed over it, and referred to it as a joke. I don't personally feel there was a conspiracy theory or any such nonsense. I do feel that it was an anomaly. Every year there are players in the pro bowl who don't seem to merit it based on the season they just had, but instead are included based on past achievements or name recognition. I would include last year's pro bowl nod to Peters in that category. Hard to justify including the left tackle from one of the worst offenses in the game when he had a subpar year, in my opinion. Also, you can't seriously believe that he played as well as he did the year before. As far as ending his holdout in time to play in 15 of 16 games, great... he was under contract for all 16, and just because he was present doesn't mean he played well. If he intended to play football that season, he could have at least kept himself in shape. We've all seen elite professionals hold out, sometimes skipping an entire camp, and not have it affect their game in the least. Bruce used to do it annually. I personally feel that the truth of the situation lies in your post, and that is Peters "plain not wanting to continue playing for Buffalo" even at the start of the contract "non"negotiation. It just has that feel to me, and maybe that is why I harbor the ill will. I've seen free agents leave for more money and I don't typically despise them for it, I chalk it up to free agency. As I said in my last post, the hostage tactics really put me off. As far as the future of the line, my biggest annoyance is that after asking McNally to make chicken soup out of chickens#@t for years, they finally invest some high draft picks in it after he's gone. Nothing like bringing in the students once the teacher has retired. If Bell does turn out to be a pro bowl left tackle, I hope he wants to stay, pray that he doesn't hire Eugene Parker, and would like to think that the FO will lock him up early before the bulls#$t starts. I don't know about you, but my arm is tired and this horse looks like glue.

Counter trey to Thurman... then he'll look out to the field and vomit like Stan from South Park does when he sees Wendy.

I didn't realize that... gotta love it... the female reporter's name wasn't "major" was it? Did she follow it up with a question about who the starting quarterback would be?

Sweet... can we turn this whole thing into a Jo Momma jokes thread? Jo mama's so ugly, her birth certificate was an apology letter from the condom factory.

If the timing that Jauron gives is accurate and Schonerts account of the ongoing friction is accurate, it could have been something that happened between the two of them on Thursday, before the game, that was the last straw. It could have already been decided to not play the starters, or it could have been a last minute thing. If you're the coach, and you've just made up your mind on this but haven't had the time to act on it, you probably make up some excuse like the starters aren't playing to keep from injury, which in TE's case might prevent him from coming further unglued. You also have to get through the last meaningless game, and need someone to be your OC. Putting AVP in there last minute without preparation and having him fail would have done nothing for him. Also, if the decision was made Thursday, doing it before the game and dealing with the media circus instead of focusing on player evaluation for Saturday's cutdown would have been counterproductive.

While Kelly's decline had something to do with it, the absence of Marchibroda was a BIG part of that downturn as well.

I saw that somewhere the day of, but I can't remember where. Funny. Unfortunately PFT left out the first part where TO took the shot at ESPN for blaming it on him. Also the part about how it was because not enough passes were thrown his way.

In his painful explanation of his thought process, he didn't say anything about not thinking about it on Thursday, now did he. Seriously, though, who knows what went down between them prior to the whole thing. Like Sisyphean, I think the powwow at Ralph's is a bit odd if he pulled the trigger. It's not outside the realm of possibility, but I think it is just as likely that it was a last ditch, desperate attempt for DJ to save his job.

The realization that they were stinkin' up the joint combined with the CERTAINTY he would lose his job if he went into the season with TS as his OC, instead of the LIKELIHOOD he would lose his job if he made the change.

That doesn't necessarily explain Schonert's comments about his philosophical differences with DJ, or the fact that they had been clashing all offseason, though.

Can't speak for the masses, but personally I was all ready to drink the Kool-Aid. Preseason is preseason, and I still feel it is pretty meaningless as to how the team fares in season. I wanted to believe that the offense's ineptitude was because they were using the preseason to get their overhauled O-line to gel, were concentrating on the things that they needed work on, and that they were holding something back for the season. There I was, standing in the desert with a nice cold glass of Kool-Aid. Then along comes DJ and swats the glass right outta my hand. No possum, we really were sucking that hard. On top of it, he makes the move that the owner asked him to make at the end of last season 10 days before this one starts. If I'm the owner and the first couple of games look like the season is again lost, I pull the plug. I like AVP. Loved listening to him on Shred and Regan on 103.3 the Monday after games. He was funny, inciteful, seemed like a good guy. Word on the street is that he has a good football mind. I just don't know if he'll have time to prove himself before Wilson pulls the plug. I just feel like the season that I was looking forward to has the potential to be over before it even starts, and the whole painful process will start all over. And I, like you and any other Bills fan, am just SO sick of that letdown. I hope that I'm wrong and that the season is a success, but it's not starting off with alot of promise.

Or the subconscious realization that Ralph is 90+, and this may be the last chance they'll get to see football at the Ralph, because attendance or not, odds are once "he's" gone, "they're" gone.

Did the Bills make a mistake in shelling out the money they did for Dockery? Obviously, 'cause he's not on the team anymore. As far as bringing in Walker, he was a right tackle in Oakland in '06 as I recall, and I assume we were bringing him in to fill a hole at right tackle, not compete at left tackle. Maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, they were free agents at the time, unlike Peters, and that was the money it took to get them here. It has no bearing on Peters contract IMO, as he had three years left on it. Regardless, you're right, he deserved to have it renegotiated after his pro bowl season. For that to happen, you have to engage in negotiations. Peters never showed up for OTAs or minicamp and as it was reported the Bills never heard a word from his agent. Pretty petulant negotiating technique. When he does report he's horribly out of shape and it takes half of the season for him to play his way into shape. On top of that he admits to letting his contract negotiations affect his game IN GAME. Sounds like something a professional who claims to be the best left tackle in the game would do, right? You can tout that pro bowl nod from last season all you want, but it was a joke. Finally, the whole thing starts anew this season, culminating with what essentially equates to the ultimatum trade me now or lose me in two years for nothing, which was the original point to my post. I have no problem with athletes getting their money, relatively speaking (I do feel it's a bit out of whack with their overall value to society, but hey, the game makes billions, so again, relatively speaking,) but the hostage tactics turned my stomach right from the start, and if Edwards is in the same position and handles it the same way I will feel exactly the same, and will probably wish him some horrible injury as well (not flattering, I know, but honest, and facetious.) To your point regarding the Eagles, I don't recall at any point insinuating that the deal wouldn't work out for them. If they keep him happy, it has the potential to give them their franchise left tackle. More power to them. That looks like a big IF, though. Poor preseason notwithstanding, someone is always going to get a bigger contract. Its the nature of inflation. And every year that happens I expect he will be standing there with this hand out giving their front office a headache, that is if he chooses to show up at all. If not him, then Eugene Parker will be there to do it for him. As a side note, I find it interesting that Jim McNally made it a point to stick around long enough to see him make it to the pro bowl and then retire, only to have Peters look nowhere near as good the next season (granted after missing all of camp.) I wonder how much of that first pro bowl season he owes to being McNally's last pet project.

Now that you have defended Peters, allow me to defend both myself and the organization. I'll start with myself. Nowhere in my original post did I question his talent. Of course he was the best left tackle on this team, if he wasn't he wouldn't have been starting. As for the timing of the thread, the article I read on TwoBillsDrive was posted this morning. I read it and reacted to it. If it had been written a month ago, I would have posted it then. Maybe you should ask the folks at TBD not to post links to articles that you feel are outside of the acceptable timeframe for discussion of the topic. Barring that, if the topic of the thread does not interest you, you should refrain from reading it, let alone posting in its regard. It baffles me when people complain about the topic of one thread on a message board instead of ignoring it when it p!sses them off. With regard to the organization, and more to the point of my original post, when an insolent, insubordinate prima donna who has already proven in actions AND words that he is willing to dog it on the field comes to you and says he is done at the end of his contract you are left with no choice. If he takes the field do you think he would have given a sh-- if Edwards had gotten smeared. Talented, yes. A good teammate, hardly. A pouting liability, definitely. I give them credit for having the guts to make the move.

True. It was meant as a heads up that I was well aware that the topic was discussed ad nauseum, and despite that I was willing to "poke a skunk" if you will.

On the point of complexity, as some have alluded to, is the fact that we have an entirely new offensive line with 2 rookies. If the players aren't grasping the complex nature of the offense, then of course you have to simplify it. It speaks to Schonert being a systems coach, instead of being able to adapt his style to players. If you want to build a complex offense around young players, you better have a stellar defense and some time to implement it incrementally, NEITHER of which he had, as is turns out.