Magox
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Posts posted by Magox
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All fine points, particularly the final 4-game stretch of the year. But isn't that kind of a stuff expected out of a young quarterback? Also, Jon Kitna was into his 30's when he had his pair of 4000+ yard years, Cutler is 25 and has only two full years as a starter. I personally think Cutler is going to be a very good quarterback in this league, and is already on his way. I still see potential in Edwards as well though, and I would be fine with more evaluation time. I just think the particular argument that is going on right now against Cutler is an absurd one.
I think he is a good qb. If we had him, would I be upset? No.
All I am saying is, that I wouldn't consider trading Edwards for Cutler, when Cutler has'nt shown that he can win in important games. Also, if you look at qb rating, Edwards was just as good as Cutlers QB rating, with lots less talent, and a rookie OC and a terrible game manager in Jauron. Not to mention that Edwards has a winning record and Cutler doesn't. I think it is also fair to say, that Cutler's opponents in his division are a lot worse than ours. Do you think Cutlers #'s would be better in the AFC West or East? I think we know the answer to that.
I for one am excited to see Edwards with the upgraded talent we have in his second full year.
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In the crapper...
why do you dislike Edwards so much? I mean he has had better #'s than most qb's in their first season, he has won more games then lost when he is at the helm. It's not like he has had more wins and decent #'s for a team that is good. It's not like our great D has carried us to victories. Or that we have had tremendous talent around him. As a matter of fact, it's been the opposite
Where is all this disdain over Edwards coming from?
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Did they also throw the football downfield and complete 384 passes to the tune of 4000+ yards? Or was that the QUARTERBACK? Man, I don't even dislike Trent, and am not all-in on the idea of this type of trade, but your argument against Cutler is possibly the most dumb and ignorant collection of thoughts I've ever witnessed on this site.
You know who else threw for 4000 yds.
http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio_id=366&season=9
and it was back to back.
let's not confuse yards thrown with a winning quality qb.
His talents are hard to ignore, and he is a classic gunslinger.
But you have to admit. He has been a boneheaded qb when it counted, and he hasn't had the moxy to pull through for his team when they needed him the most.
Remember,
The Broncos had the AFC West won. The Chargers were basically out of it with three games left to go. All they had to do was win one game.
QB rating of 74, 73, 74 2 tds and 4 int's, in his last three games. The pressure was on, they had the big lead, they pretty much had it wrapped up, and he had 3 of his more mediocre games of the year, when it counted most.
That is a fact. It is something to consider.
I am bringing up a fair point aren't I?
Edwards is a more cerebral qb, don't you think it would be wise for us to evaluate him, now that he has more talent, after his second season?
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You just lost all crediability with this post...
You act like there are no weapons in Buffalo...ever hear of Evans, Lynch, and Jackson? Not to mention Reed is not bad either...Hell, Evans last really good year was catching passes from JP for crying out loud...Cutler on this teams equals divisional crown last year easily...
division crown easily
Ok Alpha, settle down
The AFC East is a lot better than the AFC West.
The AFC West has the Raiders and the Chiefs, which would easily be the worst team in our division, and the Broncos get to play them twice a year.
I think you mean if Edwards was in the AFC West, division crown easily. Edwards was a big reason why the Bills beat Raiders, Chargers, KC and Broncos.
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son of a .....
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I thought it was Mike Goff?
really?
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Fair enough Magox, but Edwards had a 4 game stretch where wins were a must for our playoffs hopes where he had 2 TD's and 8 INT's and a couple of lost fumbles...and those 4 games were pivotal to us not making the playoffs...so the point is, how can Cutler be held so accountable for these struggles and Trent not? And, what about the rest of the season?
I know people will say, well Trent is young...well people forget that Cutler is still young and developing too. He got better every year, and in the key pivotal year of development for a QB, he threw for over 4500 yards and made the Pro Bowl.
Payton Manning was not good for years in the post season before he finally was able to put it together. Those were the first big games of Cutlers career, so if you are going to give Trent a pass for even worse play than Cutler becuase Trent is young, you gotta do the same for Cutler. All, and I mean all the greats have had times of struggle in games and even stretches in a season.
QB play was a much bigger factor for us not making the playoffs than it was for Denver.
Thats all I am saying...
So far up to now, there is little doubt that Cutler has accomplished more, and no doubt he has the stronger arm. That is not what I am debating. You have to understand a few things though. He has had more talent around him than Edwards has. He has been in a much much more pass happy system than Edwards has been, so no doubt that, that has inflated his #'s up to now, plus he has had 1 more full season, then Edwards has had.
I think when when you combine qb's who play in their first full season (Edwards), and team's that are below average both on defense and offense (Bills). I think it is fair to say that the qb will have less than stellar #'s.
Edwards, on this team, has had good #'s in my view, when you look at the team that we are and the offensive talent that we have had, and the geniuses at the helm that are guiding him.
Cutler has got talent, no doubt about it. But has shown that he is immature, not just in the latest episode but in other instances as well. And let's not forget that it is Cutler's responsability to adhere to McDaniels, not the other way around.
He has shown that when the game is on the line, in critical instances, he hasn't produced. Some may say that is not fair to bring up, but I say it is not only fair, but it is wreckless not to consider this. I can't say enough how much I am unimpressed with Cutler, in those final three games when they needed him.
I'm not impressed with Cutler. sure he has the gunslinging passing yards and td's. But he makes bonehead mistakes when it matters.
that's just my view
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Do we really need to dissect Edwards record in must win situations? I'm assuming you watched a few games last year and don't need a recap, right? If my memory serves me correctly he wasn't exactly on fire down the stretch. This is your cue for the ready made he had a concussion for half the year, nonsense.
Hey Genius
Where in this thread did I compare him with Edwards?
Before you make any asinine assumptions, you should first read before you type anything.
Secondly, if you want to keep making excuses for this Cutler, then that is your prerogative.
Bottom line, is like I mentioned before, He hasn't produced when they needed him. that is a fact.
That he has played well below his average performance when they needed him. that is a fact.
Keep making excuses for him.
I know Mcdaniels isn't
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Are you kidding me? The argument is Cutler for Edwards and the only defense you have is "in the clutch". You must have been in a coma the whole second half of Buffalo's season last year. Pathetic argument.
if you don't see the argument. Then it is useless with you.
Ok, you can have the qb who doesn't play well in the clutch.
Because we all know it is not important for a qb to be able to do that
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Hmm...I can name 4 games right off the top of my head where an Edwards bone head throw (3 of which resulted in INT's be returned for a TD) and I mean terrible throw, cost us the game. Cutlers worst game as a pro was no where near the debacle Edwards put up in the Cle game...
QB's make bad throws...Manning and Brady do...Montanna, Young, Aikman, Farve, Kelly, and Marino all did countless times in their career...so get over one game and one play, it does not define a QB...in fact, I can name a game where all the above QB's made a worse throw than the one you referenced in far more important games...
What your failing to understand Alpha, is his ability to play in the clutch. He screwed up multiple times against the Bills.
In critical junctures of the game, he makes big mistakes. Not just in the Bills game.
J. Cutler 33/49 316 1 2 was his stat line against the chargers
Good gunslinging numbers right? Note the 2 int's
It was over when ...
Chargers DE Luis Castillo intercepted a Jay Cutler pass inside the Broncos' 20-yard line, setting up LaDainian Tomlinson's third touchdown of the game -- a 14-yard run -- on the following play.
there is no doubt that he has talent, but he is a crybaby, has a losing record, and makes big mistakes when the game is on the line. So far he has only 2 full seasons behind him, and he has shown promise, but he doesn't play well when they need him.
Think about it. You can make all the excuses in the world you want to about him. But all they had to do was beat Buffalo at home. You can make the argument of not putting too much stock into it, but it is an important factor. The factor that you don't want to ignore.
But the facts of the matter are that when they needed him most, he failed. 3 games. All they had to do was win one.
3 games Alpha. 0 victories.
But forget about the victories, here are the facts
3 games. One victory and they are in. So let's see how he did.
He had a 74.3 qb rating against Carolina and they put up only 10 points. 1 Td 1 int
He had a 72.4 qb rating against the Bills at home and had 0 tds and 1 int.
he had a 74.9 qb rating against SD and had 1 td and 2 int's.
2 td's and 4 int's in their final 3 games.
hmm
No wonder Mcdaniels has second thoughts about him.
These are facts. So let's not go just with the he had no defense argument.
Bottom line is he was a very mediocre qb when they needed him most. 0 clutch ability.
0 wins in three opportunites. 1 win and they are in.
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We beat them at home, case in point!
Not only that. But It was to go to the playoffs. Bottom line is, he doesn't know how to win when they need to him to win.
No refuting that
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For all you who say that McDaniels instigated this situation. Read in between the lines
SOURCE: COOK WANTS NEW CONTRACT FOR CUTLER
Posted by Mike Florio on March 16, 2009, 11:34 a.m.
With none of the top quarterbacks in the draft pool picking him to be their agent, Bus Cook had to find a way to get his name into the NFL conversation in the weeks leading up to the 2009 version of the rookie selection process.
What better way to do it than to demonstrate his power and influence to the quarterback class of 2010 by forcing a trade of Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler?
Dan Patrick said on the Monday edition of his show that Cook recently responded to a report from Peter King that Cutler had asked for a trade before the possibility of trading Cutler ever arose with the time-honored non-denial denial: “Not that I know of.”
We’re now convinced that Cook is the primary instigator of Cutler’s discontent — and also the primary impediment to a meaningful coach-player meeting that could resolve the situation and keep Cutler around.
King told Patrick on Monday that coach Josh McDaniels still wants to have a one-on-one meeting with Cutler.
In other words, McDaniels wants to be able to talk to Cutler without Cook sticking his nose into the discussion, saying and doing things that will prevent Cutler’s currently stubborn resolve from weakening.
Indeed, a league source tells us that Cook’s idea for solving the current impasse was — what else? — a fat new contract for Cutler. If the Broncos aren’t willing to give Cutler a new deal, then Cook and Cutler want to be traded.
Cook is a West Virginia native, so we’d ordinarily be inclined to give him the Pat White treatment. In this case, we can’t. Cook has been at the center of too many unnecessary controversies, and he has failed to use his tremendous influence over his clients to persuade them to find a way to make things work. Instead, Cook has thrived of late on destroying existing relationships, for no apparent strategic reason other than to get his name in the paper.
That said, it’s not too late for the Broncos to take control of the situation. As pointed out in our latest SportingNews.com item, the Bengals did it last year with Chad Johnson, and the Cardinals did it last year (and might do it again this year) with Anquan Boldin. When a player is under contract for three more seasons, the team (not the player) has the power to determine whether the player will be traded or released before those three years expire.
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This is why we can't let Peters go
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Cutler's natural talents are unquestionable. However, he seems to make the worst mistakes at the absolute worst times. Did anyone catch the Week 16 game last season when the Bills went into Denver and came away with a victory, thanks largely to bad decisions made by Cutler? That was a must-win game for the Broncos too. I will have to say that I came away from that game more impressed with Edwards than I did Cutler. Yes, I know Cutler has a much stronger arm. However, Trent made clutch plays down the stretch in bad weather in a hostile environment, while Cutler threw a back-breaking interception with the game on the line.
there is little doubt, that when he is in a clutch game or situation, he has failed. The Bills and Sandiego game are perfect examples. He has never led them to a playoff game, he has a losting record, and remember, this is a team that traditionally make the playoffs on a consitent basis.
I know that he has had a weak defense, and the rb problems, but the bottom line is that he hasn't been a winner, and when they needed him the most, he has failed.
They needed to beat Buffalo, and they would of made the playoffs. Bottom line is, he made tremendous errors, that cost them their opportunity to be in the playoffs. That is a fact.
he is a crybaby, and he is immature, and he has shown that in the past. There is a reason, why Josh Mcdaniels, who has been very successful (look what he did with cassell) doesn't want him around. He obviously feels that this is not the guy that can lead him to the promise land.
Cutler has all the skills and arm that you want in a qb. I'm not sure that he has the mental makeup to be a winner, either does Josh mcDaniel.
Either way, Josh McDaniel now will be in the hot seat if they trade him away. He has a lot of balls and confidence to do that. He will get grilled if they don't produce a winner. he now has put tremendous pressure on his shoulders.
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Yeah, let's pick a guy @ #11 that didn't even reach double digits in sacks in 4 years of college (9 Total) when we're looking for a person who can consistently pressure the QB.
I respect your opinion H20, but Ayers looks pretty damn good. It does concern me that he only got 3 sacks in his entire senior season. After doing more reading on Ayers, I think there is a reality that doesn't fit the 3 sack total he had his senior season.
I don't know if I would get him at the #11, and to tell you the truth, It wouldn't bother the hell out of me if we did draft him at that spot, But I definitely would seriously consider trying to trade back into the latter half of the first round if he is stil there to get him.
http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2009/feb/22...k-keeps-rising/
Just on a side note, he dominated big Andre Smith out of Alabama when they played, and he dominated Michael Oher at the senior bowl in 1 on 1 drills.
Contrary to what many people believe, they say he has an explosive first step.
I'd rather have Ayers than Michael Johnson or Maybin, that's for sure.
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Travis Beckum could be the solution to our TE dilemma. This guy has got everything we are looking for and since he missed most of his senior season should slip to the 3rd or 4th round. He could be an immediate starter. Plus this will allow us to address our DE and OL/LB needs with our 1st two picks. FYI - made known of this person from a big-time nfl insider - can't disclose source.
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile...rospect_ID=1248
I understand that he has great production and speed. But using the word "everything" is a stretch. Remember, he is a Tight End, so a big part of Tight End duties is blocking. We run and pass 50/50. If you read up on him, he is 235 lbs, which is very small for a TE and he has very little experience blocking lined up next to the tackle. He was used more split out.
He would be at best in his first year with us, as a situational TE. He would most likely not be used in our base formation because he would be a liability as a blocker.
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no, basically he feels like McDaniels and Xanders are snakes, and tehy are full of sh*t, which he is probably right. They attempted to get Cassel, without letting him know anything, and now they are attempting to deny it. Great way to start their GM and coaching careers...by alienating one of the better young QB's in the NFL, and likely a QB a lot of NFL teams would love to have...
Oh well, guess it goes to show them not to do stupid things, get caught and then try and deny them...
Cutler has every reason to be pissed and apparently things got worse when they met face to face with Cutler shouting at McDaniels...this is not gonna work...they have to move Cutler, because you cannot have one of the team leaders basically having no respect for the coach or GM because of the way they have treated him and their attempts to do shady stuff behind his back, then lie to his face when they get caught that they weren't trying to do it...yeah whatever...
Are you serious?
Since when is it the GM's or coaches duty to inform the player of possible trade scenarios.
Btw,
I hope Detroit gets him.
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I've read a few reports, that have stated that when Cutler met with McDaniels, that McDaniels told him what it is that he expected out of Cutler, and Cutler saw it as a personal attack. Sort of like a, HOW DARE YOU? sort of a deal.
Let's remember, It is Cutler's duty to make the coach happy, not the coaches duty to make the player happy.
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What are the chances we can trade you ?
there is no trade value
gotta cut him
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Looks like things aren't going well with him and McDaniels. Rotoworld reports that Detroit may make a move to try to trade for him with their 2nd 1st round pick.
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the article is on the front page:
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/606369.html
"However, a source familiar with talks said Peters’ first offer was in excess of the $11.5 million-a-year deal signed by Miami’s Jake Long, who was the first pick in the draft last year. Long’s deal was for five years and $57.5 million. "
"It’s believed Peters wants to be the highest-paid left tackle in the NFL. "
"The top contract signed by a veteran left tackle went to Carolina’s Jordan Gross just three weeks ago. A week before he was about to become an unrestricted free agent, he signed a six-year contract worth about $60 million, with $30.5 million in the first three years of the deal. "
That's a far cry from what we all have been hearing and reading. Even in that article they say $3Million a part. What we've read is that the Bills are offering $8.5 Million a year.
Well, if we are offering him $11.5 Million which I doubt, then we should stand pat on that offer. He will eventually sign it.
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The reference to Galloway's consecutive 1k yards production was to note that, prior to getting hurt last year, Galloway was producing at a very high level the 3 previous seasons - averaging 67 catches for 1118 yards and 7 TD's.
I think it's obvious that Galloway wasn't signed with the goal to supplant Moss or Welker as the 1-2 in NE. He was signed as the #3 WR, specifically to matchup against nickel backs in the role that Gaffney provided I suppose. But Gaffney never produced to the level that Galloway has. If Galloway can stay healthy he's a monumental improvement over Gaffney and will cause DC's headaches as they look to matchup their nickel backs against this guy.
I gotta agree with Pneumonic. Too many people here on this board are downplaying his ability. Thank God the Bills Coaching staff and players don't feel the same way you guyz do. He did have back to back 1000 yard seasons before last season. Also, just so people know, even the games he played last year, their were many games where he was playing with a Hammy, so that did hamper his play.
Galloway in the slot. That scares me.
The guy knows how to get open, he's crafty, quick, undoubtedly lost a step, but still dangerous.
If he is healthy, this will be a very good pickup for the Patriots
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The Bills if they make a trade for Peters will probably give him away........What is a LT who made the pro bowl two years running, and voted the Best young tackle in the league worth? Last year he laid back wanting a new contract... When he wants to be he is the best LT in the league game in and game out... He should be paid so. What is he now making? 3 to 4 million when other good ones are making double or more.
Philly knows what they are getting and that is why they will push the trade... He is worth a lot but the Bills will excect anything
I say sign Peters and get it over with... But the Bills history tells us different...
I think the Bills will pay him a contract of $10 Mill a year with incentives that could possibly take him to $11-12 Mill a year.
I don't see the Bills trading away unless they get a really sweet deal. They know that we have a lot invested in this season, with Jauron, T.O, Trent and the desperate Bills fans. We have him for $4Million this year, the Bills FO have the leverage on this deal. If we don't trade him during the draft, which I hope to God we don't, then I see him coming into camp and trying to renogotiate a deal.
We'll see
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11 is too early for pettigrew IMO. Cook, Beckum, Coffman will all be available in rounds 2 and 3 and I think any of them can be just as effective.
I hear what your saying, but how can you really say that Cook, Beckum and Coffman can be just as effective as Pettigrew?
Apples and oranges.
In Pettigrew you have a player that can be an asset in every single down, run and pass.
In Cook, Beckum and Coffman they could be slightly better (which I have my doubts) than Pettigrew in the passing game, but they are tremendous liabilities in the run game.
First, Cook in my view, after doing more research on him, has been seen as a disappointment, considering his skill set.
They say he has been questioned by Spurrier for having heart, he never had better than decent #'s, little productivity, and is seen to not only be a bad blocker, but a non willing Blocker.
To me that says. STAY AWAY!! Scratch him off.
Coffman, I like him. I think he will be a good pro. But we know blocking is not a strong suit of his, they say he is a willing blocker, but not an effective one. But the big thing about Coffman is that his speed is the same as Pettigrew's. So I don't see him as having a receiving advantage as far as stretching Defenses up the middle. That in my view make's Pettigrew much more valuable than Coffman.
Beckum is an intriguing prospect. I like him as well, but as an H back, situational player. He has tremendous #'s and production. Very athletic and can stretch the field. But he is 235 lbs, and is not known to play on the line. There is little doubt that he would get manhandled and we would not be able to put him in on many plays.
Remember, we run and pass 50/50 .
I wouldn't be upset if we got players like Coffman or Beckum, but we have to realize that they would not be every down players and would not be effective as blockers, at least not for a good while.
In Pettigrew, you know what you get. Defenses will not be tipped off if we are to be passing or running, he would keep defenses more unbalanced.
To say that these guys would be just as effective, I just don't see it. Pettigrew in my view definitely brings more total value than the players you just mentioned.
But I really hope that we don't consider Cook. He is a work out warrior, but that is about it. He lacks courage, blocking and never has produced up to his talent. Stay away from this one.
Cutler formally asks to be traded
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I just think it's logical to evaluate him after his second full season, considering he showed promise in his first.
The good thing is that the Bills are committed to Edwards, so all this talk is for not.
Let's see how he does this year, then I think it would be more fair to evaluate him after his second full season.