thurst44

It wasn't this year and neither of them is likely to cost all that much. There's no reason they won't carry both. I'm actually ambivalent (i voted make him an offer and if someone bests us, fine). Side note: I'm in NYC area and you should have heard how rueful fans were that they let Roberts go.

He made 1.3m last year after a Pro Bowl season. I think we can afford that for one of the best return men in football. I don't get why people are this eager to move on from him. I'd get it a bit if McKenzie were already signed, but if we don't sign either then we're at square one for kick returners and think back to when we've had bad special teams.

I would not rule it out yet. There's still a lot of wiggle room between Hughes' possibly restructuring, Smith retiring, and White and Dawkins could take the same sort of deal Mahomes and others around the league are doing. Diggs could be extended in a way that lowers his cap hit this year, but gives him a deserved raise for future seasons. If I were to guess, Addison is back more as a rotational player and team leader--a lot of this team's success has to do with its chemistry. I've been in the minority hoping he would stay (but definitely not without a big paycut), as (1) locker room chemistry and (2) we should maybe not judge a new defensive player too much last year as it was a beyond-weird year. I get why people don't want him back, but we'll see how he does next season. My guess is Beane still looks at a game changer edge rusher and an upside TE. Maybe it's just Autry taking the Jefferson spot. We sign Feliciano and McKenzie, both of whom have telegraphed that they don't want to leave Buffalo. The next RB will likely be in the draft and at 30 that very well might be the BPA (and there's some gems in the later rounds). We'll see, but these are my guesses. And every year the team in cap hell even finds some way to sign a premium FA (look at the Falcons last year with Fowler, although it's killing them now)... and we're nowhere near cap hell.

Both have been very open about how much they want to say (probably to a degree that drives their agents nuts), so I'm guessing if the Bills want them, they can keep them.

That's fair, but I would suspect they do, otherwise they would not let Brown go to free up 7m only to spend that on a WR who may not be all that much better.

If there are ways it could be done where it gives them the same money (as is implied) and they help the team, I don't get why they wouldn't rework their deals.

It is true that Steelers WR2's often excel only to go to another team and play meh. In truth, Ben is likely very underrated as a QB... I'd feel bad for him, but, you know... In fairness, Sanders did have his best season by far the first year Manning was throwing to him. Now that Brown was cut, I'd be curious about what Sanders is looking for. If his salary cap hit would be anywhere close to 8m, I'd rather have just kept Brown, but as 30-something WRs go, I'd be happy to see him. In any case, I suspect they are planning to spend money elsewhere as Diggs, Davis, Beas, McKenzie is still one of the best WR rooms in the NFL, and they have some interesting in-house options (Hodgins, Kumerow, even Duke Williams).

Given Ben R.'s history, if there's conflict between anyone and Ben R., I'll take the other guy's side. He's always been pretty quick to throw people under the bus. Also, I had a friend/boss who went to Miami(OH) at the same time and she was not someone who pays attention to any sports, but when I mentioned him she got quiet, she shook her head and said everyone knew about Ben R. and there was a big "stay away from him" vibe on campus. When the Diggs thing happened, Sanders seemed genuinely disappointed he didn't "get" to come to Buffalo, so while I'd rather we extend Brown and lessen his hit, I would be excited to see him come to Buffalo.

Yeah, that wasn't really you but you were the easiest to quickly respond to, so to a degree I apologize for coming on hot. However, by saying that their inability to move on from him after a year due to the opt out was "screwing the pooch" and implies they want to move on from him. I'm not so sure that's the case given the two years he was in the center of the defense, they had the number 3 defense in the league. I doubt they consider him the fiasco a lot of people here (not necessarily you) seem to.

Again, the defense was great two years in a row with Star, and meh his opt-out year. Yes, yes, I know correlation does not mean causation, but they improved 2018 over 2017 in many of the areas bringing in Star was supposed to help, so maybe we should stop trying so hard to run the guy out of town. I'm not going to pretend to know exactly how it works, but with new contracts, they can convert some of the money to bonus(?) and hence it's actually beneficial to the player b/c they get more guaranteed money paid out immediately and the team gets to save money against the cap (i think it pushes the cap into other years, which right now is ok b/c presumably there will be more space in future years).

Not sure of a restructure, but cutting him would cost more, and given how our D played in two seasons with him and this last season without him, I'd much rather they see if he returns and Oliver and Edmunds get a chance to make more plays.

Edmunds was likely considered the BPA at the time. Many mocks had him Top 10. I picked him occasionally in Fanspeak mocks with our 12 when he dropped, and even traded up a couple times--knowing all the while we were drafting a QB. Oliver was expected by some to go top 3. Epenesa was easily BPA as he was more often than not well within the 1st round in mocks. Ford was expected to go in the first by many. Just b/c the pick fills a need does not mean he's not BPA. You could argue just about anything fills a need. OK, if we drafted QB or WR, it would be hard to argue that it was a need pick. but we have two great safeties and solid back-ups, but people could still in retrospect call safety a need pick if we moved on from Hyde after his contract ended.

There is no official cap right now. According to Spotrac, we are a little over 3m under and that does not take into account Lee Smith's likely retirement which would get it to near 6m (if spotrac's guess turns out to be correct). If that TV deal goes through we could be even more under. I'd bet they'll do everything to be higher than 175 as that puts almost half the league over the cap.

What's the point in taking a 5m hit in a year we're right up against the cap when there's a good chance he could help us win?

But it opens up a space and Hughes has been one of the better players at his position for the last few years, even if he does not get so many sacks. Also, you truly underestimate the importance of chemistry on this team and what unnecessary moves can do to morale, not to mention that there's a good chance the player you bring in will not be better than him, especially for 4.7 mil. The D-line gets a lot of crap here, but it was actually the 2nd best at winning its pass rush. Also, as McDermott pointed out, there were a lot of new players and the no-preseason, no-real practice put them at a real disadvantage, so McDermott and Beane might not be as eager to move on from them as you are. I'm fine with cutting Butler and Jefferson (I'd also be OK with Jefferson's restructure as he showed flashes before this year). If they cut Addison, I trust the process and while I like his enthusiasm, there's a good chance he's in decline. However, cutting Hughes would not be a great move and cutting Star is just insane given that it actually hurts them with the salary cap.

Large DTs clog up the space that allows QBs to step into their throws, while also taking up an extra defender oft times. It was actually talked about frequently when they signed Star and sorry, but it just irks me that he did what he was supposed to do yet he was savaged here b/c he doesn't get stats, which is true of most players at his position. Shaq was more responsible for guarding the edge, and occasionally rushing the passer--I actually agree that he didn't get his full due when in Buffalo as he was never supposed to be a 10-sack kind of DE. His loss is relevant in their struggles against the run as he was good at contain. Jordan Phillips, maybe you have a point, but he was a different kind of DT. In any case, do you really believe Star was so bad that we should lose 5m in cap space by cutting him?

First off, cutting Star actually would cost almost 5 million and yeah that would be smart to do after a year in which we gave up the most yards to tight ends without him after leading the league in fewest yards to tight ends the two years he was there. Hughes is a beloved member of the team who had the second best pass rush block win total and he's been up there every year. I get the three new guys, although I'd still try to get Addison to restructure b/c he made some plays and was clearly a clubhouse leader, and a lot of the success of this team has been the culture. A lot of fans are really quick to want to blow up a 13-3 team that was one game away from the Super Bowl.

Actually you missed a 16 in there as I'm sure someone has pointed out. Your overall point is not off, b/c the year's before that have 1 sack between them. I could see him having a Buffalo revival though.

They were 15-4 and most way-too-early analysts rate us from the 2nd to 4th best team in football. Reading this thread you would think our favorite team was below .500. Maybe we should just listen to our GM who has been clear that you don't use the draft to fill holes. Beane was the Executive of the Year, you know. We're in the position where we can afford to easily take the BPA.

McDermott had a pretty solid point at his first post-season press conference that they did not get to play together in pre-season or regular passes (Allen and Diggs vibing was the exception to the rule). However, their contracts are also the easiest to walk away from. Rewatching games, Mario Addison appeared to me to still have an impact and was a key part of the mental make-up of the team, so I hope they restructure him. Quinton Jefferson, I just did not notice, practically at all. Vernon Butler can go. I'm also hoping Justin Zimmer can get more snaps next year as there's a slight chance he might be something special. Star's absence would seem to have been noticed since we were the top team against tight ends his two years and just lousy before and after, so I look forward to him coming back. Epenesa seemed to be coming on at the end, so I'm excited to see what he can do. Ed Oliver, as many have said here, would likely benefit from having a huge player in the center, and hopefully that's Star and he gets back on track towards earning his Top Ten pick status. So, we may not need a whole rebuild. However, one or two new players through draft or FA would be good. And that might necessitate a lot of contract ultimatums with the current players.

I don't entirely agree, but a very fair assessment. (and I'll admit to putting a bit of a sunshine spin on players sometime, but i truly don't get the pitchforks that are out for this guy... or really anyone on the roster right now).

You must know that is a ridiculous parallel. Tyrod was a 4th or 5th alternate. Tremaine was a 1st alternate last year and made the team straight up this year.

Oh, I know what you think. You're the Mikey of this board, to use a reference that ages me. Let's see Bills fan who hates everything vs. experts who have analyzed his tape + my own eyes from repeated watches. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm gonna go with the latter. Seriously though, do you ever enjoy anything with the Bills. I'm sorry to personally attack, but it's just so bloody predictable with you. Also, as I have said before with Star. He was brought here after a disastrous 2017 defense of tight ends mostly to help with that. In 2018 and 2019, this defense gave up the fewest yards to tight end. He does not play... the MOST yards to tight ends. Honestly, it's kind of laughable that you would say that this board worships Star when all you would see was people bemoaning his play and contract until strangely the defense suffered when he was not there. This sums up my feelings much more clearly and succinctly than what I wrote. Kudos, Shaw66!

He was also the 22-year-old captain of a top three defense (and the middle linebacker of a top three defense in his rookie season) in 2019 (and 2018). This was a weird pandemic year with no pre-season to get ready (which might just impact a team with mostly new players on the D-line and of course the loss of the mountain in the middle), he played a good portion of the season with a shoulder injury that clearly impaired him (and yet people here are calling him soft). He was playing much better after it healed, even if he made some bad plays. Yes, the Pro Bowl can be laughable, but a lot of that has to do with (1) players making it on reputation and (2) starters not wanting to play so 4th alternates wind up in Hawaii. First off, I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure most of Edmunds' votes came from players and coaches, not fans, so what "rep" is he coasting on? Maybe the players and coaches see things some fans don't. Also, he was voted 1st team this year. I'm not saying I think he's perfect, or that I don't see some plays that make me shake my head sometimes, but this attitude many here seem to have that he's been a total disappointment feels insane to me. I'm not in favor of extending him right away, but I am excited to see what happens behind a better DL with hopefully Star (or a similar 1T) back, with a normal season, in which (hopefully) he is not hurt. Also, we were 13-3 and a game away from the Super Bowl. Edmunds was a key player on a defense that was dominant two out of his three years (every year where there wasn't a pandemic--limited pre-season and practice does mean something). Why are a good portion of the threads on this site so damn negative. I mean, the week after was one thing, but we're acting like this was a 3-13 team. I've always felt a bit weird about the phrase Bills Mafia, but I love that it was formed to try to promote fan positivity towards the players. When they attacked Stevie Johnson, the fans had his back. I'm not saying we shouldn't critique players, but some people seem to make it their mission and engage in hyperbole to tear players down. Does anybody here REALLY think Tremaine is terrible?! In any case, ultimately it's up to McD and so far they have given us pretty good reason to trust the damn process.

Star always gets this tude from a large part of the fanbase and I'm downright sick of it. When he was brought in as a FA in 2018, one of the big reasons given was b/c QBs were stepping up into the lack of pressure up the middle for short passes and tight ends were feasting. That was one of the biggest rationales I heard for his contract: he would stop tight ends. In 2017, we gave up the 6th most yards to tight ends. In 2020, the most. In Star's two years, we gave up the fewest yards to tight ends. Yet so few people seem to be putting two-and-two together that maybe, just maybe, Star's not the garbage player we've judged him as. I could be wrong and I know correlation is not causation, but I do know enough to say I don't know. Just like people here who tore him down don't know, but I will say that I do have some numbers that suggest my claim could be correct. I'd like to see Cover 1 or someone similar do a deep dive to prove my point or convince me I'm wrong. Star's coming back regardless, but I'm willing to bet that his return will mean that two other first-rounders will have monster years (as others have said in this thread), as Oliver's free to make plays and Edmunds is not a sitting duck in coverage. If Milano is here, Star'll likely improve him too, but it sounds like he may be out the door. So much vexation and so many calls for purging on a team that had the second best record in the NFL, finished the regular season at a 9-1 clip, demolishing most teams, then won two playoff games before losing on the road to the defending SB Champions and likely again SB Champs who were also methodically moving through the league. It was a weird season. I'm thankful for what transpired last year, but also excited to see what this defense can do with regular pre-season, practice, and a mountain in the middle, paired with an explosive offense that's also likely to be even better next year.