thebandit27

This is why a cap casualty like Verner fits the bill; he adds a vet presence, can compete with Seymour for reps on the boundary, won't cost a ton, and doesn't work against the potential windfall of compensatory picks the team could be looking at next offseason (figure a 3rd for Gilmore, a 5th for Woods, plus other possibles like Zach and/or LorAx)

Agreed--I didn't like that he went straight for the holdout a mere year-and-a-half after signing a 5-year contract that the team opted to give him WAY ahead of when he was due to come up for UFA. I always felt that he deserved to get paid.

Quick--what defense does Seattle run 90% of the time?

I'm actually fine with that given how deep a draft it is at corner, but I think we need to be prepared for a rookie to be a significant drop off from what we had last year.

He's not "supposedly talented"; he's very good. In consecutive weeks, he basically shut down Allen Robinson, Amari Cooper, Antonio Brown, and Terrelle Pryor. Did he start the season in a form of preservation mode? Sure looked like it. He had 2 bad games; that some folks want to turn it into more than 2 bad games is, IMO, way overblown. Oh stop. The team faced 511 pass attempts in 2016, so it's not as though teams didn't have a chance to attack him if they wanted to...Gilmore just so happens to have faced an NFL-low number of targets per coverage snap in 2016. There's that whole idea of context again--it matters. As to his run defense, how about more than just "I seem to remember him getting destroyed"? Can you give any type of data with relevant context to support that opinion? I've already tossed out solo tackles for the "top 10" corners as my defense. Nothing is cherry picked; I posted literally every stat that can be attributed to corners in this very thread. Cherry picked? Also, I never said I'd take him over Sherman. I said that their performances during 2016 were almost identical.

Why do you think that Lezlie Frazier is going to call his own defense and not McDermott's?

$1.2M is not situational pass rusher money; in fact it's closer to twice that. $5M is probably fair for a guy coming off of a 13-sack season.

That's simply his personality; it says nothing of the team. He's an extremely quiet guy. Also, you are (like many others) completely wrong about his level of play. He didn't "have one good game" this year; he had 2 bad ones and 13 really, really good ones. He is not average for a CB; his stats for the 2016 season are virtually identical to Richard Sherman's, and are very similar to other guys that are widely considered top 10 (and even top 5) corners. Despite this, folks still make blanket statements about his supposed "averageness" with absolutely no context to them. I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but it's nigh exasperating to discover that a very large contingent of Bills' fans altogether ignore the data.

Wow...good arm length for him

My guess for him is 4.5 flat, and I don't think it should affect his draft stock either way.

Not surprising...I have no idea why you'd trade a guy that is a very capable backup and is playing for peanuts.

He's fine as a situational pass rusher and a guy that could take snaps at Sam in a pinch. If he'll take $5M I'd do it.

If he wants to play here for reasonable money, then IMO it's a no-brainer.

The numbers speak for themselves: his are almost identical to Sherman's for 2016, and are clear and away better than Peterson's

I know your piont, but who is?

I still say that they should offer Gilly a 2-year, $4M contract that's fully guaranteed.

Oakland IMO

Not sure if anyone posted yet, but: https://nflcommunications.com/PublishingImages/Pages/NFL-Network-Analyst-Mike-Mayock-2017-NFL-Scouting-Combine-Conference-Call----Transcript-and-Audio/Mike%20Mayock%202017%20NFL%20Scouting%20Combine%20Transcript.pdf

Everything you state here is wrong He had more solo tackles than Richard Sherman, and "unwilling" tacklers don't get hurt trying. Not to mention that the idea that being a bad tackler negates the job he's doing 90% of the time is sheer lunacy

Love ya Bill, but every single statement there is an opinion. I'm dealing only in facts on Gilmore, and here they are (again): Gilmore stats for the 2016 season: 69 targets, 40 receptions, 627 yards, 2 TDs, 67.7 passer rating against, 42 solo tackles http://billswire.usa...hought-in-2016/ Article from Ike Taylor on his top 10 CBs in 2016: http://www.nfl.com/n...n-lands-at-no-1 Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against, 38 solo tackles Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against, 45 solo tackles Chris Harris Jr., Denver Broncos: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against, 57 solo tackles Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against, 35 solo tackles Josh Norman, Washington Redskins: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against, 52 solo tackles Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants: allowed 37 catches on 81 targets for 425 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 54.8 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals: allowed 47 catches for 76 targets for 482 yards, two TDs, one INT, 83.3 passer rating against, 54 solo tackles Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota Vikings: allowed 33 catches on 79 targets for 384 yards, two TDs, five INTs, 39.2 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against, 32 solo tackles Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars: allowed 48 catches on 90 targets for 703 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 68.0 passer rating against, 55 solo tackles Summary: - Gilmore was targeted by opposing QBs fewer times than everyone on that list - He allowed more yards than everyone on the list save for Ramsey and Peters - Talib allowed zero TDs, and Gilmore tied with 6 others on the list for 2nd-fewest with 2 TDs allowed - Gilmore's passer rating allowed was 3.7 points behind Sherman, and better than than those allowed by Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman, Adam Jones, and Jalen Ramsey - Gilmore had fewer INTs than Peters, and tied with Rhodes for 2nd-most from that list I'd say that Gilmore definitely has an argument that he should be considered among the top 10 cover corners in the NFL based on the numbers. He was in attendance for every mandatory team activity last season despite wanting a new contract, so there's literally zero reason to expect that. And again I say: I'm fine if they let him walk and don't pay him the $14M+ that he's likely to get per annum. I'm decidedly NOT fine if they don't replace him with another very good CB, because despite what some folks want to believe, that's exactly what he is...nearly the EXACT same numbers as Richard Sherman last year.

I suppose Shaq could've done it post-combine in early March, but he still would've had to fight the pre-draft stigma of a guy that's going to miss the entirety of the offseason.

I'm dealing only in facts on the issue.

Just search the "shadow" thread on this board...he absolutely belongs in the top 10, and his metrics compare quite well with the Sherman/Peterson/Norman tier.

Maybe I just didn't catch enough of Reed; I thought he was mostly pedestrian in the games that I watched (Arizona, Buffalo, Carolina), the the exception of the NE game, where I thought he looked like a brick wall. I'll have to try to pay closer attention to him this upcoming season.

Reed is a niche player for me--he fits with Seattle because they needed a run-downs-only kind of guy to balance what they lost when Mebane defected in FA. For me, Allen does more in the pass game than Reed, and is a good deal more disruptive