May Day 10

well, you also have to consider the team would probably be worth more in a "better" city. With that said, I believe the NFL could possibly be a "risky" investment at this point. It seems the whole thing is getting saturated. Last season it seemed there was some issues in a lot of places attendance-wise and not the perpetually sold-out image the NFL likes to portray. Then you have the walls caving in on them with all the head trauma stuff, alumni stuff, frivolous fan lawsuits, etc. NCAA Football is also about to enter a real gut check when it comes to the players vs institutions battle. I also believe youth and high school participation is down and will likely go down more, especially when schools/organizations shut it down to avoid lawsuits. We may be at or close to the height of NFL Football

you would think the NFL's plan/hope was Mr Wilson passing closer to the end of the lease. They would have easily sold to MLSE, etc with their new stadium all planned and ready to go, with the whole cover story that Buffalo isnt losing a team and its only an hour away. It would have been quick and we would be silenced. The NFL world would forget about Buffalo in less than a season.

I think the biggest issue is: Will the NFL want this. Approving an owner swooping in to buy, announcing the team is leaving just after the public spends $130 million or whatever in stadium improvements (bad business). Especially when all reports from WNY appear favorable and open to a new stadium. Then what will be a public court battle which would likely drag on, providing everyone in WNY every opportunity to be heard and seen. Thats a bad look. The NFL cares greatly about its image.

I think RWS is cool, and getting cooler as all the other stadiums are losing character. Its a matter of time where it becomes a destination for football fans from everywhere. Every single person from out of town (mostly New England and NYC) I take to a game goes on and on about how amazing the experience is. I think a retrofit should absolutely be in play. A huge investment should be made in playing surface. Go to grass. Players seem to hate the injury risk here.

I agree theplunge

Would all 18% suddenly swear allegiance to the new team? Plus 2 more percent? There is a considerable counter-culture in Hamilton south that goes against anything Toronto. I would suspect the hatred toward that team would create some Bills fans who would otherwise not care. Maybe the 18% would dip. Maybe not. If they are in the same Division too you can count on 1 guaranteed sellout I think the possibility of Toronto and Buffalo is interesting to think about and I wouldnt instantly dismiss the idea as automatic fail

Im fine with RWS and I believe my tickets are very underpriced. Even for a franchise who has had zero success on the field in a decade and a half.

I guess it helps to remember too that Mr Wilson wasnt planning on passing away March, 2014 as well.

I could see the last phrase. The first one, we are theorizing that the trust could possibly leave a moderate heap of money on the table for a local interest vs Ben Jobie. With a new stadium in the works, wouldnt the team overall be more valuable to a local owner?

that thought has been crossing my mind the deeper we get in this. Mr Wilson is commended for "doing all he can" to ensure the team stays, but if that was true, why wouldnt we be further on our way to a new stadium rather than this current situation in what the NFL deems as a lame duck stadium?

I guess this location conversation is worthless at this point without knowing who the new owner is and what their intentions are/plan is.

I just dont get the correlation with this. With baseball, a summer activity with >80 dates and you can just kick your legs up with a cold one, I can see how you can attract a casual tourist/family to a game. An NFL game here takes place outside tourist season, there are 8 of them, good weather games sell out anyways, and you have to kind of deliberately intend on going to an NFL game as its a fairly pricey and all day event. Also, the typical tourists you see at the Falls aren't your typical NFL attendees. If anything, the NFL games would make the Falls very undesirable for tourists on gamedays. What would the maximum "walk-up" be? If this team becomes as competitive as the other 30 (excluding Cleveland), and tickets wont be a problem in any new facility. As far as corporate seats from up North. Once the border is crossed. Does it matter? Say its the same indoor facility. Does it matter that it happens to be 5 blocks from Niagara Falls, or an extra 10-20 minute drive (which could likely be saved in traffic and border gridlock issues?). People may choose the Peace Bridge anyways. Personally, NF would cut 20-25 minutes off my drive, and I would much prefer OP. We also have to remember, Niagara Falls is a bad place with stinky air, chemical plants, and an Indian Casino. Nobody can snap their fingers and make that go away. That is a great vision, but we are talking more and more on the tab, which already seems expansive when dealing with NF. If the new owner wants to come in and rebuild Niagara Falls for a Bills and NFL related theme park, then have at it. Would love the World Cup, but I doubt it. All MLS cities likely would have an inside track to host any and all events and I would think it would stay in big cities/soccer hotbeds. Off the top of my head, Lincoln Financial, Meadowlands, Pasadena, and Dallas. Those will be impossible to unseat.

what does that mean? What 'finances' are going to be released?

Thats it right here. It doesnt make much sense. Unless the new ownership/group demands it absolutely must be in Niagara Falls and is willing to put up a significant chunk of money. Just yesterday Cuomo spoke about being cautious on money spent and seemed to lean a bit more toward the cost savings of being in place in OP. Doesnt sound like a governor who is ready to drop 2 billion dollars so the Bills can play a little closer to Toronto. Nothing is coming from Niagara County either. http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/cuomo-expresses-concern-about-taxpayer-costs-for-a-new-bills-stadium-20140604

who are they obstructing?

I think the ones that currently show come down for the "raw" atmosphere. Thats a reason the Skydome is not desirable to those fans. They could toss away much of the 18% they have and hope to build a more affluent 25% or whatever from scratch. Then we would also have to charge big bucks and change over the clientele from WNY to more upscale. Do we have that in us? I guess that lends to the conversation of do we/can we/should we preserve the atmosphere and tailgating and stay true to ourselves and keep affordable pricing (team is still profitable)? That will increasingly be the attraction IMO. If we still have a good degree of that, with a winning team, and a decent facility, attracting fans will be zero problem. I guess it hinges on what the owner ultimately wants and has a vision for.

Also, most of that current Canadian clientele goes to games for the party and the cheap booze. At least the ones possibly willing to walk 1-2 miles. The suits/tame fans wont want to walk that far typically. Where is the parking for these walkers going to be anyways?

But they are like 10 minutes apart. Niagara Falls also decided to build chemical plants instead of attractions for a half a century which cannot be realistically reversed. I just dont see the connection in the attraction of the Falls and the stadium. Are all the foreigners taking in the falls suddenly going to decide to attend an NFL game on a whim or buy boxes? I dont think seeing the falls and needing a stadium walking distance are linked interests. Weather is generally crappy during football season anyways. The goal is, and its headed that way over a ton of public and private development, is to make DT Buffalo an attractive and exciting place to be. There will be much to do with microbrews, restaurants, etc. It already has a lot more activity than even 5 years ago. I drove through last Friday and couldnt believe the amount of activity and people out and about downtown. NF has nothing going on besides the typical chain-mall development at the Outlet Mall. NF USA is a decayed depressing place with nothing going for it. With that said, in place in OP is the only realistic option without a lot of private money from the new owner(s)

They can also bring people in via hovercraft, helicoptor, and magic carpets

to beautify the US side though is another huge money expense on top of the roads, land acquisition, and stadium. A billion dollars in Buffalo, a city that had 100x the pulse NF has and it still will need significant work/luck over decade(s). Stadiums, especially football do not typically result in a positive economic impact. I would say having a stadium and all the lots associated with it is a 'waste' of the area there. If NYS was pumping a billion dollars into NF, it could be much better spent. Look at OP. We have a few bars/restaurants and gas stations. Thats all thats needed around the stadium. We have already lost the battle on US vs Canadian sides until a NYS Governor pulls the rug from the Senecas and allows private casinos in Niagara Falls... maybe even a marijuana district type of thing but thats a different discussion. Things at and around the falls there will pop up so quick, and be much better than a stadium/lots. Canadians would be choosing USA due to the cheaper prices/shopping, etc.

Its just not logical. I dont think it would save people from Toronto any time getting caught in the boondoggle that will exist there no matter what they do. As I mentioned too, most people from up there stop and stock up on supplies before the tailgate. That doesnt/wont exist between the border, casino, and venue... at least to service that many people at once. More may open, but they would have to somehow do business the other 345-355 days a year. So people would have to go through traffic, drive further inland to get their stuff, and get back into traffic and park. Many would probably loop around and use the Peace Bridge and stop on the way anyways. We are all on the same side. I would love a stadium here. Keeps the Bills in WNY and I could ride a bicycle to the facility. However, besides closing your eyes and plugging your ears and yelling "closer to toronto, 7th wonder" it has many things working against it and would mount a gargantuan cost... all in a place that has traditionally rejected any progress. Even if you just move the stadium toward the Lasalle Expressway or Wheatfield/Summit Mall you are saving a ton of cost and trouble I work in contracting and have a lot of experience with road construction/reconstruction. I do believe we would be talking cost that would double the cost of the stadium. The only way I see it happening is based on the speculative scenario from Kryk's column. MLSE/Rogers/Jacobs agree to foot the bill on almost all the stadium, in exchange for the state/Niagara county paying for the infrastructure. This would also depend on Erie County being lax on the relocation portion of their lease. If the county/state is on the hook. They already have all the land and infrastructure they need in Orchard Park. Build a comfortable stadium, field a stable, competitive team, and they will be fine.

200 million might get you millsteins land

Here is an article that actually presents information beyond the surface "7th wonder" and "closer to toronto" positions http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories/2014/MAY06/ten.html We're talking 9 or 10 figures in acquiring land and rebuilding/rerouting roads before a shovel even hits the ground on a stadium.

God love Jim kelly... but that is a weak "argument" in the face of all that is going against it.

How many canadians even go directly to the stadium on gamedays? I would bet a very large majority stop and get food and libations on their way to orchard park. I would also expect the rainbow bridge delays, gridlock in the city of nf and trying to find beer and food would cost canadians more time than a trip elsewhere. The smart ones would likely swing down to the peace bridge anyways