thewildrabbit

This is another reason as to why I think it was more Buddy Nix then anyone else. Marrone didn't like some of the players acquired for the line, so I don't get the impression that Marrone helped in or made those line choices. "The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woods was benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said)." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials

This He could have been far more innovative in the run game besides 71% up the middle runs, or run run pass with the same plays over and over. Hackett was born hamstrung by his own arrogance, and self importance.

as an OC yes, as a HC NO!

Here Bill, just for you. "Buffalo Bills: Cornerback Stephon Gilmore (-3.2 to +7.1) allowed a catch rate of 78.1 over the first half of the season which was fifth-worst among cornerbacks. Over the second half that was down to 48.6 which was 11th-best among cornerbacks." https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/30/32-observations-week-17-3/ I would also take Jay Cutler, and only if the Bills hire Mike Shanahan. As far as Levitre is concerned, I wouldn't mind him back in Buffalo at a reasonable salary, and on the other side they had better get a big time road grader.

hey man, he even interviewed with the Raiders Al Davis fired him, and then refused to pay him the rest of his contract. Shanny took him to court and lost. Shanahan hated Davis so much he used to tell his back up QB's warming up for a game to throw the football at Davis's head. Looking at the Bills current situation with no QB, and no first round pick to draft a QB then Buffalo might be the least appealing situation for a new HCing hire. Shanahan makes perfect sense to me. I'll be surprised if the 49ers pass on him considering what he did for RG3.

While I agree that good coaching is a big factor in how a player performs on the field, and the better the coaching then you can expect to get the very best out of each player. **(Going to add Pro Football Focus grades so you can get a better understanding of how the players were evaluated against each other. I don't think of PFF grades as the end all, be all or the holy grail of grading players. They are respected service around the NFL, and they do help keep things in perspective)** That said, you need to look at who Doug Whaley chose to bring in as free agents the last two years for the O line. LG Andy Levitre(+15.7), and his backup in Chad Rinehart (+3.4) both left the Bills previous to the 2013 season, and while Levitre graded as a mediocre run blocker, he also graded as the team best pass blocker. The first two players chosen to replace those two were Colin Brown(-30.1), and David Snow who were both already on the team as backups / practice squad guys. They were both so bad that they were outright cut from the team by week six in 2013. The person Whaley chose to be a backup to center Eric Wood was Steelers backup OG / C in Doug Legursky (-12.5). This player graded as their worst player on a bad Pittsburgh O line, and was signed as a free agent. The Steelers let him leave because he wasn't very good. The Bills were lucky they had signed Legursky who could step in at LG because after they cut Brown, Young, and also very lucky to not have more injuries on that line, as the only backups at that point were players right off the street. For the 2014 off season the Bills cut Doug Legursky, and went out and signed the worst graded player on the (26th graded team) O line in St Louis. Chris Williams had past history of injuuries, and a grade of (-21.8). Williams lasted 2.2 games until he went on IR with a bad back. Just to give you an idea of how good Cordy Glenn played with Andy Levitre next to him his grade for the 2012 season was a (+23.0), and it dropped somewhat in 2013 when he was forced to play with Legursky. Then for the 2014 season he graded around (+2.0) because of Richardson / Pears being next to him. Plus the bad coaching of the O line this season did make a difference IMO. Still not convinced? Then read this article by ESPN http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/120269/bills-taking-odd-risk-in-signing-williams For the people that hate PFF, rotoworld also ran an article on Chris Williams and stating they couldn't figure out why the Bills would even attempt to sign such a bad player, as he graded at 60th out of 64. While Whaley has brought in lots of very good acquisitions for the entire team other then the offense, punter, kick returner, kicker, defense. For some inexplicable reason he has been dumpster diving going after other teams worst graded players for the offensive line. Then the players drafted for the line last year also don't grade out very well as the 7th rounder became a starter only because the 2nd rounder was 1000 times worse, and the fifth round OG played very poorly in his starts this year. My take is ex Bills GM Buddy Nix who is still currently employed by Buffalo as an adviser with the team is the one telling Whaley that he can get by with sub par players on the O line. It was his philosophy that OG's are a dime a dozen, that any OT can be moved successfully inside to play OG, and that OG's can be found in the later rounds. Its a really stupid philosophy as each and every one of those ideas became bad ideas as OG's aren't a dime a dozen, as RT Pears proved he was horrible as a RG this year, as Richardson showed that good OG's aren't always found in the mid to late rounds in the draft. Probably why its been reported that Buddy Nix won't be back as an adviser after his contract expires this month. Lets hope things get better for the offense, and O line for 2015. Coaching, and players.

I think everything depends on who the Jets hire for their GM, and if its the right guy then Marrone could still be in play. The Jets owner still loves Marrone even tho the media hates him already.

Shanahan turned down the Buffalo job once already, and it can't be very appealing considering the team has no #1 pick and no veteran QB. Still, money talks and BS walks. I also think Shanahan would do wonders for the team very quickly. The one big drawback to other teams is he would want near autonomy on player decisions, and he would probably get that for the offensive side in Buffalo as Whaley has issues on that side of the ball. If hired by Buffalo there could be a trade made for Jay Cutler away from Chicago which would make things interesting. I don't see the Bills giving up much for Cutler as they are probably dying to get out from under his contract. Like I said earlier in this thread I like Mike Shanahan for the Bills HCing job, and he might be the only one who could actually give Bill Belichick a run for the division. Also, "Brandon has been the chief proponent of former Washington head coach Mike Shanahan, sources said, who the team is scheduling an interview with (Brandon has tried to land Shanahan in the past)." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24934972/bills-owner-still-wants-a-football-czar-after-polian-snub

I think what so many Bills fans fail to see is that trade for Watkins with two #1's and a #4 was basically unprecedented for a non QB, especially when the team didn't already have a rock solid franchise QB. Then they could have stayed put at #9 and gotten Odell Beckham Jr who missed the first four games and then came withing a few yards of breaking Randy Moss's rookie yardage record. Looking at what ESPN reported that if Bill Polian had taken the job as team president he had ear marked ex GM of the Chargers AJ Smith as his GM. Many other teams look at that trade as a very high risk, low reward gamble that didn't pay off for Buffalo. What bothers me most about the trade or i should say if they hadn't made the trade for Sammy it has been announced that the #1 pick at 9 would have been Eric Ebron, and the #2 pick for Cyrus Koundjio. This, plus the fact they overlooked Beckham, and even Kelvin Benjamin tells me the Bills have some serious issues with their offensive scouting abilities. This seriously needs to be addressed this off season.

I was thinking that exact same thing, as he would be the starter going forward. I would also think the team needs to add two quality OG's in free agency too.

No franchise QB, and no 2015 #1 & #4 picks. Then factor in that Marrone wanted different players for the O line last off season, and was denied by the FO. Then his starting QB just walked away for some unknown reason. I can see why there was a rift between HC & GM, and then both of them answering to the Marketing / finance guy couldn't have been as the smartest option.

Welcome back Bill, and good to read " a few thoughts" thread again from Bill From NYC. #1 & #10 I think any Bills QB play will drastically improve depending on how they drastically improve the OG situation. Not to mention a better OC, HC and better offensive schemes, game plans that can actually take advantage of the players strengths. #2 I don't care what they do with Brandon as long as he is as far away from the football operation side after everything is settled. I don't want to see the HC, GM reporting to the marketing / finance guy ever again. #3 I love me some Fredex, and if the new regime can use him as a 3rd down back out of the backfield catching passes, and blocking. He is still considerably better then so many RB's in blocking. #4 Doug Whaley's job should be in great jeopardy IMO, trading away next years #1 & #4 for a WR when they don't have a franchise QB. Not to mention they could have stood pat at #9, and drafted Odell Beckham Jr who missed four entire games with an injury, and still almost broke Randy Moss's rookie record for yards, 1313 yards vs 1305 yards for Beckham. Then Whaley threw 6 players at that O line the last two years, and only one has been somewhat effective, and even then he was barely adequate. For all the great acquisitions the man has done for the defensive side he has done a very, very poor job for the offensive side. Trading away Stevie Johnson because he didn't work well with EJ only to bench EJ after four games. When Kyle Orton could have possibly used Stevie in the red zone...considering the Bills were last to 31st in scoring red zone TD's. Trading for WR Mike Williams only to see him not being used, and now gone from the team. Then trading for Bryce Brown who was another player not utilized. I really question the current scouting departments ability to judge offensive talent, and gotta wonder does the team need to hire some offense scout specialists? I think as we get closer to the draft more and more Bills fans will realize that trading two #1's for a WR when the team lacks a franchise QB was an horrendously stupid move, and would probably get that GM fired by other owners. Lastly, I sure hope these new owners will hire a new team president of football operations that has a solid past history of success. Someone like the Packers GM Ted Thompson comes to mind as he has added some great talent to that Green Bay team. I hope they keep Whaley, its just he clearly needs some better guidance with the offensive side of the ball. A quality team president, a quality head coach, a quality offensive coordinator, some quality additions to that O line, and the 2015 Buffalo Bills could easily be contending for the division, and the super bowl. Again, good to see you back Bill.

I don't know about the rest of the board...but I want my Buffalo's back

"Marrone was not in favor of Buffalo surrendering a future first-round pick to the Cleveland Browns in a trade that did not involve a quarterback, sources said." http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-coach-quit-nowhere-182825013.html I was against it too when the team wasn't 100% positive that EJ was the franchise guy.

what he said

Good lord I can't stand not being able to see the quote outline. Dunno know if its a bug. All I know is its bugging me. Anyway, Doug Whaley needs to be 100% accountable for the the crap players he has brought in for the O line the last two years, and there is no question about that! "The front office has also bristled at how certain players are being used, sources said. Team executives believe tackle Cyrus Kouandjio, this year's second-round pick, warranted more of a long look this summer, were unhappy that emerging receiver Robert Woodswas benched at times, and they were also at odds over guard Kraig Urbik, who the personnel side believes is a quality guard (he just received a contract extension a few years back) but who Marrone has soured on (the team explored trades for Urbik before roster cuts, league sources said)." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24695455/buffalo-tension-boils-over-in-shouting-match-for-marrone-bills-officials

Like I've said in other threads. I think Whaley has done a near brilliant job with the defensive side of the ball, and there is no question about this. OTOH, Whaley has done an outright bad job with the offensive side of the ball the last two years. Two #1 picks, and a #4th for a position other then a QB when the team doesn't have a franchise QB is enough to get him fired by most team owners IMO. The Bills have thrown six players at the O line the last two years, and all but one have been bad players so far. That one decent player may or may not develop into a top starting player. Trading away Stevie Johnson because he didn't work well with EJ wasn't very smart considering the team would bench him after four games, and Orton could have used Stevie in the red zone IMO. Then trading for Mike Williams, Bryce Brown, and both were hardly utilized, and Williams is already gone. I know I no longer trust Whaley to do anything on the offensive side of the ball, and am hoping the team hires a president of football operations to oversee future offensive acquisitions. I'm also hoping that perhaps because they have been so bad at identifying O line talent that they hire specialist scouts for the offense.

I could care less if Marrone gets the Jets HCing job or not, and I only hope he hires Nate Hackett. Whats more disconcerting to me is that Pegula agreed to an extension with Marrone. Meaning that St Doug and his staff would have been back for 2015.

While I can understand why the Pegula's waited to hire a senior football adviser, as they were being pitched by the slickest marketing man ever into thinking continuity. If the Bills had made the playoffs then probably nothing changes. Not only didn't the team not make the playoffs they lost to a bad 2-12 Oakland Raider team, and looked lost doing it. Hence, changes. I know I no longer trust Doug Whaley / Russ Brandon to get it right considering they did waste the 2015 #1 & #4 picks, did mess up with EJ, has not built a decent O line even tho they have throw 5 plus players at it. Now with no #1 pick, no QB. I can see Buffalo as probably the worst choice for a obtaining a new HC. I have no idea how Russ Brandon still has a job after approving that 4 million dollar contract in allowing Marrone to walk and still get paid, and if Pegula had wanted to fire him it would have been 8 mill. Just profoundly stupid. Info is slowly being released on whats been happening behind the scenes, and its more of indictment against the current Bills FO. Marrone was upset the 2015 #1 pick was used on something other then a QB. That Marrone wanted better for the O line then Kraig Urbik. I was hoping we wouldn't see the owners being involved in any internal football operations like hiring the head coach. CBS sports NFL today Jason La Canfora reported that Terry Pegula had indeed agreed to an extension with Marrone only to have St Doug call back and say he was leaving. Man, that last part is huge because it means Marrone, and Hackett would have been back for 2015. The faster the new owners hire a team president / senior adviser the happier I'll be. If they don't then I can see the team staying a mess this year.

Whats funny is he reminds me a whole lot of St Doug. He does know how to build an O line, and look what he has done for that Dallas offense. The thing is, for 2014 Ex Lions OC Scott Linehan (passing game coordinator) is the offensive play caller in taking that over from Jason Garrett this year. Callahan is the run game coordinator.

While Shanahan is a viable prospect for the open Buffalo Bills head coaching job. He did get the Broncos to 13-3 with Jake Plummer at QB, and 11-5 with Bob Griese at QB. Shanny only got two years with Jay Cutler at QB, and the owner got impatient. If I recall correctly his downfall at the end was hiring schleps as DC's. Cutler in his 2nd year threw for 4471 yards, and that Denver team was 16th in points, #7 in yards on offense. However the defense that season was 30th ,29th. I wouldn't mind a big name like Shanahan, as he knows talent on the offensive side. The line, the QB's, the RB's, the TE's. Pretty sure he would build a very good offense in no time.

I wouldn't be lamenting everything that has transpired recently to much, as I feel there is a lot of time left in the off season to add a team adviser / president for the football side of the operations. The time between when the playoffs end and the draft in April. The Bills owners are involved in the coaching search does bother me a bit, but they could be involved just to say no thanks until they hire an adviser or team president. Bill Polian, Ron Wolf, Ernie Accorsi, and Charley Casserly aren't the only people on the planet who could be a senior adviser. Mike Holmgren, Bill Parcells, Carl Peterson etc, etc, etc. The new owners could also be waiting for the playoffs to end to offer a job to someone like Packers GM Ted Thompson or Seahawks GM John Schneider and promote them to team president of football operations. I guess we will just have to wait and see before we fling ourselves off a tall building.

As much as I dislike Marrone I can't fault him for anything other then not giving more of his help to the offensive play calling, game day preparation, and then in game offensive adjustments. He simply spent far, far to much time concerned about the special teams IMO. Perhaps he thought he was another Marv Levy The difference between the two being is that Marv hired the most innovative offensive coordinator in the league in Ex HC of the Colts Ted Marchibroda. Ole Ted taught Kelly to call his own plays, set up the old Redskins "counter trey" offensive line calls. (Gary Kubiak now runs something similar with the Ravens) then installed the 2 min drill hurry up offense when he saw how proficient Kelly was in running the 2 min drill at the end of the game. and well Hackett is an innovator of nothing except up the middle 71% of the time, or 50 passes a game.

I was thinking of him too. Hey, the first thing he would do is hire the right OC in someone like LSU's OC Cam Cameron away from LSU, and build a great, dominate running O line