Thurman#1

Could definitely work out as you expect. Me, I would have taken a QB, but I don't think it was a dumb play at all. They think they have a chance to win a Super Bowl with Eli in his waning years, and that the way to do that is by putting a run game beside him. I expect Eli to play a lot better. Now if they never get very good, this will have been a huge missed opportunity. Somehow, though, I expect good things. Hernandez at G again looks to do good things for this offence and the two DL picks are right in the traditional Giants wheelhouse. They're doing a fine job, IMO.

While Bledsoe was never an athletic mover, he was OK in New England. It was really when he got to Buffalo at age 30, 31 and 32 that his legs visibly started to freeze up. He lost what mobility he had. Bills fans remember a Bledsoe who was not what he had been. You look at his first six years and he never had more than 36 sacks. After that he was rarely below 45. But yeah, he was never as athletic as Allen.

Oh, you're a troll. No link, no proof and you're right. Got it. Hadn't realized. Silly me for taking you seriously.

So, a list of famous Ohioans without any mention of either Aaron Rodgers or Carson Palmer proves me wrong?That's where this link sends me. Wow. That's a pretty low standard of proof. I'm not an expert on either guy. So I googled "biography" and the names Aaron Rodgers and Carson Palmer. I did this before I posted last time. And I found three or four quick sources on each guy, none of which had any mention of Ohio and all of which said both guys were born in California and played their high school and college ball there. https://marriedbiography.com/carson-palmer-biography/ https://www.jockbio.com/Bios/CPalmer/CPalmer_bio.html https://playerswiki.com/carson-palmer https://www.biography.com/people/aaron-rodgers-20954015 https://www.britannica.com/biography/Aaron-Rodgers https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/aaron-rodgers-12058.php http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/A_Rodgers/A_Rodgers_bio.html Again, I'm no expert on the personal life of either guy, but everything I can find says you're wrong. So again, got any links that actually show that disproves any of this? Seems each was born in Cali and played their high school and college ball there. Honestly, I am willing to learn.

Could you please shoot me your sources on this? Way I see it, both were born in Cali and played their high school and college ball there and Palmer spent nearly all his life in Cali before being drafted. Looks like Rodgers spent a while in Oregon but was mostly in Cali.

Interesting that you switched at the last second. Huh. I disagree with you about Rosen, but agree about Allen. Both had a right to feel slighted but Allen through his whole career and Rosen through the draft process with the narrative about being spoiled. I'm hopeful but less so than I would have been with Rosen. Hope you're right but I kinda like the Cards organisation and so I hope Rosen does well too.

Not frequently. But yes, it does happen. Tyrod, Favre, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford and Brady have all been coached up for instance and showed improvement that has carried over onto the field. Yes, there are plenty who have been coached up and still sucked. But it does go both ways and we don't yet know which way Allen will go. Yes. I think that was my point, wasn't it? Now I'm getting confused.

Carson Palmer and Aaron Rodgers are from California, aren't they?

Injury concerns. And I would guess that they just liked Allen better. I don't. But it seems they do.

You may have tried to point out a flaw, but you didn't succeed. Your analogy is looking at something that is not in my posts. Look, if you really want to get involved here, go read the back history of this argument. Then see if you disagree with me. Yes, as I clearly have said about six or seven times, improved accuracy at this point might not stick. But even you admit that he improved. "Improved accuracy." Exactly. He has improved. That's a fact, a fact that he simply denies. It's a dumb argument that he is making. Again, if you really want to join this conversation, go back and read from where he came in. The post he responded to was made by me at Thursday at 3:11 p.m. on Page 8 of 17 for me. Or my post yesterday at 2:52 a.m. on Page 14 of 17. I wouldn't involve myself, if I were you. I wasn't insulting you, I was insulting him and for pretty good reason if you read the posts.

And I'm saying I think you're wrong about that point. "MOST" Bills fans will not be crying at the first ill advised pass or pick. Yeah, there will be a mouthy 20% who'll comment wildly. Most fans here are smarter than that. But certainly not all of them. There are people not smart enough to have patience. And they're loud. But most people have a better understanding. Long row to hoe? Yeah, fair enough. Not much to be said really, beyond "we'll see," at this point. You're wrong about that. It's not a given, it's just not. But it's certainly a very real possibility.

Dude, you haven't followed the argument. I said he's improved a lot but there's still a major question about whether it will stick. He said no he hasn't improved. It's stupid.

I wish this was so. For a team that has drafted consistently in the late 20s, he's done a damn good job keeping the team at that level. And yeah, sure Brady and Belichick's own abilities have meant a lot. But nonetheless they've managed to keep that machine stoked and rolling for a very long time. He's drafted well, partly because he arbitrages picks so well. But drafting late is a handicap that never seems to have troubled them. That's good drafting.

Yeah. But Allen doesn't need to learn to be a QB. He needs to develop some areas of his knowledge and mechanics. If he's successful this will have been a brilliant move. You're focusing on entirely the wrong question. The right question isn't how long it will take for him to be a starter. It's whether he will be a top ten or top twelve starter. And that we don't know.

Probably because they think of him less as a project and more of a development guy. There's a small difference there in that project QBs are sort of maybe possibly after a while types while the idea behind a development guy is that with development he stands a good chance. Clearly the Bills think he's more than a project. Besides, the whole "he has to be able to start immediately" thing is more a fan concern than a team concern. The teams tend to hope they start immediately but be willing to spend time if it's necessary, though plenty of teams then end up bowing to pressure and playing the guy too soon and undermining their chances. Hopefully this administration will be stronger than that.

Really hard for me to give a specific grade. If they'd picked Rosen instead, I'd have given it an A++. I understand why they picked Allen. He's got a legit chance to be great. But if he busts and Rosen is terrific, this will look like a D- even if Edmonds is terrific. On the other hand, if Rosen turns out to be injury prone and Allen is a big success it will look like maybe the single best draft in Bills history. To me, this is simply going to take a lot of time. Too early to evaluate, IMHO.

Well, yeah, if you're stupid, you could argue anything. You could say "Improvement isn't improvement until I personally decide it is." Sure. You could also say there's ZERO way to say he's gotten stronger until you see him playing even though he's improved his lifts in the offseason. But either way, you 'd be wrong and you'd be a dummy.

Bills fans don't have any patience? They'd better get some. He should get however much he needs. And no, 90% would not have written off Goff, that's nonsense. Yeah, a mouthy 20% maybe but most Bills fans are actually pretty sensible and aware. You hope he's ready in a year, but if he needs more you deal with it, be patient and deal with the frustration of the fans. That's for starting. The bust thing has the same answer for everyone. Nobody is a bust in less than 3 three years to smart fans ... nobody ... unless they're out of the league. And some need even more. Eli Manning's light didn't come on till the last few games of his 4th year.

What they actually said about Tebow was that because he was trying to improve his mechanics he wouldn't be throwing at the combine. See the difference there ... Allen had already improved by the Senior Bowl and again at the combine? Then later they said Tebow's with the Broncos and trying to fix his mechanics. Then two or three more times they said he was working on his mechanics, but he was still working on it years later, well after it became obvious that he did have accuracy problems but that his main problem wasn't so much his accuracy but more an inability to go through progressions and make good decisions You know who else they said had improved their mechanics? Tom Brady. And Aaron Rodgers too. Plenty of very successful others as well. Look, your argument has been butt stupid from the beginning. I said he'd improved. You denied that, which was just stupid. It's something everyone who's looked at him progress through the offseason has said. It's a fact, he's improved. I had gone out of my way to say that his improvement didn't prove that he would be a success. That it still had to stick and it might not, but that he had absolutely improved. And now you're trying to make a point by pointing out that some guys who improved didn't succeed? Wow, if I hadn't already said that, you'd really have made a point against me. You've lost this argument already. The point you made was that he hadn't improved. Which is wrong. Now you're trying to switch the ground of the argument, a loser's argument, but you're also switching it to say something I've already said. Hard to lose an argument more conclusively than that. All I've said is that he'd clearly improved, and that that didn't prove he would succeed but that plenty of guys who'd wanted to improve their accuracy by working on their mechanics had never really showed improvement. Allen has. If you want to reply to me, disagree with some of this. There are some perfectly reasonable arguments against Allen. This isn't one of them. Nor are the tweets unless he turns out to actually be a racist rather than to have said something stupid one time while 16.

Got none for the players, but mine? "By the time they get to Phoenix, I'll be sleeping." Glen Campbell is the man. That and "Wichita Lineman." Made for football, that one.

This is how I'll feel if they draft Allen. Or Mayfield or Rosen or Darnold. I'll be hopeful but I won't believe. Why would I? Don't believe till you see, but be hopeful, that's my policy. But according to Peter King and a couple of other folks who canvassed some pro scouts and personnel folks, Allen is #1 or #2 for a lot of them. Allen won't require more work to make me hopeful than any of the others. Fans don't like Allen but the pros do ... and that's much much much better than the other way around. He's my fourth preference, but fans don't get to see these guys on the whiteboards, or interview them or see the reports from the private eyes or talk to the college coaches to see what reads they might have been supposed to make on what plays ... The pros know more than we do. Which doesn't make them perfect but does make them a ton more informed and knowledgeable.

You don't. It wouldn't take everything we have to get to 5. Here's what we have: Two 1sts, two 2nds and two 3rds, a 4th, a 5th and a 6th this year. An entire draft next year. And an entire draft the year after that. We aren't going to run out of ammunition, especially since going from #12 to #5 is 500 points, basically the value of the #40 pick. It'll likely cost more than that to go up, but surely not anywhere near as much as you're imagining. Trading up twice is a very reasonable possibility, particularly as the Giants don't seem to want to drop down to #12 if they can help it.

As usual, you're the dizzy one. I'm replying to a post which said that every year big athletic guys are mocked high. Since in fact there are extremely few QBs (or humans) who are both big and athletic, and certainly you can't find one every year, I assumed he was talking about big guys, and athletic guys. Apparently this leap was beyond you. And by the way, aren't you the guy who promised like ten days ago you wouldn't write to me unless I specifically addressed you? Yup. It was you. Yet another example of saying one thing and then directly contradicting yourself if you ever feel like it. Gave your word. Then broke it in extremely short order.

Yup. It's a new world.

Because sometimes non-stories look like stories for a few minutes or hours. People said it was a result of mechanical problems. Now he's fixed the mechanics and his accuracy has improved a great deal. He absolutely can accurately throw a football. Still more to see, but this is far more than most guys with mechanical problems are able to do before they're even drafted.