Thurman#1

Yup. He was awful here. And better again back in Washington afterwards. He appeared to really miss Washington and pined away here. That was a bizarre situation.

Yeah, we do. Clearly it's you who don't. The 0-16 Browns got some good players to come in FA in the offseason after that without overpaying. We will too. Yup, good point. Every team every year has to avoid bad decisions - as much as possible, anyway - in FA and the draft. Having a lot of cap room doesn't mean it will be used well. Fair enough. Although I always bridle a bit when people mention Walker as a bad pickup. He wasn't. He was a good pickup, used badly. They brought him in as an RT and he was playing very well indeed at RT. Then the results of not signing Jason Peters or anyone capable at LT hit and they switched Walker to LT. And that was never going to work. Walker was huge and didn't have very good feet. At RT that was OK but at LT he simply wasn't athletic enough and he failed. Wasn't his fault the Bills played him at the wrong position. You let him spend as much of it as he wants. The fact that you want him on the hot seat doesn't mean that's where he is. The Pegulas knew a horrible year was likely while many people were able to avoid that understanding and are now shocked.

They blamed the Bills for sucking for a long time. Because the Bills sucked for a long time. Overall I like the Pegulas. But if true, this is juvenile.

Tate is up in the air, IMHO. He certainly might stay in Philly, but he might not. OK, so ... Randall Cobb Donte Moncrief Tavon Austin Golden Tate Ryan Grant John Brown Jermaine Kearse Cordarrelle Patterson kevin White Mike Wallace Chris Hogan Cole Beasley Quincy Enumway Adam Humphries Tyrell Williams Cody Latimer Phillip Dorsett Kelvin Benjamin TJ Jones Josh Bellamy Martavis Bryant Brandon LaFell Devin Funchess Darrius Heyward-Bey Russell Shepard Andre Roberts Dwayne Harris Rishard Matthews De'Anthony Thomas Justin Hunter Geremy Davis Deonte Thompson Jordan Matthews Robby Anderson Geronimo Allison Terrelle Pryor Chris Conley Josh Gordon Got this on Spotrac. There are some decent guys here. No, not all will become FAs and not all would come to Buffalo, and there are some names there people might not want to see here (Benjamin, for instance) but we've got a lot of cash to spend and that's all it generally takes to bring in someone. And this doesn't include cuts or possible trades. I just took three seconds to copy that list. It was old. Sorry about that. But if your point is that we need a #1 receiver and there isn't one on that list, well, yeah, but how often does a #1 get to FA? I mean there are how many of those guys? 10 - 15? One of those guys gets away occasionally but not most years? Teams hang onto them if at all possible. Of course we were never likely to get a #1. DeSean Jackson's been around a bit. But what other #1s? Was Jordy Nelson a #1, particularly by the time he left? We hoped Sammy would be a #1 but he isn't, surely, at least so far. You may come up with a few others but it sure isn't common. You generally get them from the draft. But there are guys out there who would be upgrades and would help put good pieces around a QB.

So, what you're saying is that the offensive roster is absolute crap, right? And that therefore what we should do is fire the offensive coaches? You realize that doesn't make sense, right? The coaches you fire are the ones who have decent players and get crap production out of them. What you do with coaches who have crap rosters and get crap production out of them is what you should do with every coach anyway ... you take all emotion out of the decision. You collect all the information you need. You avoid knee-jerk reactions. And then you make an ice-cold analysis, grinding through all the info. And then you make an ice-cold decision. What you DON'T do is get all pissy and angry and moan and scream and pick out an easy scapegoat and blame everything on him. Even good coaches need good players. And no, it's no wonder Allen has completed 54%, thrown 2 TDs and 5 INTs while only putting up a YPA of a horrible 6.0 and a passer rating of 61.8. He's a rookie. And a rookie who was trumpeted to the hills before the draft as a guy who would need a ton of development ... a fact promptly forgotten by Bills fans once we drafted him. And yeah, back in 2016, we were #1 in the league in rushing. Yeah, boy, I remember those great days ... sigh ... when we were the 16th ranked offense in the league. We were terrific at running and also way below average at passing. It wasn't like we threw out a great offense. And a lot of the problem is having lost Incognito and Wood, which was not a decision made by this regime. Dude, it really is true. No, they didn't say they were rebuilding. Nobody does. Not even Cleveland. Not in these PR-conscious days. But yes, they've hinted over and over again that this year was not going to be good. They did that because they knew they were rebuilding. It's been there. I wouldn't mind sitting Allen or playing Peterman a bit.

Actually, you do. Giving up a third for Benjamin was a risk but we still had plenty of draft capital to get Allen. And Allen won us that snow game without which we don't reach the playoffs. And as for Glenn and Dawkins, we needed to get a top four QB. Shipping out Glenn made it a much more likely thing. And Glenn was injured and hadn't been fully healthy in a while. And was coming up on a major payday. This kind of move is made all the time. It made complete sense. You're right it's not a tank. You have to look to hockey and basketball for those. This is a rebuild, a near-complete one. If they still suck in another year or two then yeah, we'll know. As it is it's simply too early to know. Rebuilds take a lot of time and they suck. That's the horrible part. But they can get you a franchise QB when other ways often can't, and they can be the foundation of great teams. No, it's far from guaranteed. But when you're going from a 7-9 record on a team with a crappy cap situation and Tyrod Taylor at QB and a roster no better than decent, it's probably the best chance you have for success.

No, we don't know how bad this HC/GM and offensive staff are because they went into this season knowing it was going to be a mess. They've tried to tell anyone listening not to expect much this year. But you didn't listen. They aren't surprised it's a bad year. Only you folks who didn't get it did. And while some offensive coaches have looked very good recently, so have some defensive coaches. As usual, it's not really which side of the ball a guy comes from, it's how good a head coach he is. You look at the teams - this year - with five or more wins and it's pretty close to even. What's not even is that they pretty much all have good QBs, which is what we got by trading a lot of talent away and then using a ton of draft capital and Cordy Glenn besides on bringing in Josh Allen, who might eventually become good. As for coaches succeeding quickly, yup, they went into situations with good young QBs on board, with more talent and better cap situations and were able to reload rather than rebuild. We didn't have a QB or much talent and our cap situation was horrible. Reloads under those situations are almost guaranteed to fail. So we rebuilt instead. And yeah, that takes awhile, as nearly everyone knows. You'd be looking for an offensive coach. Yeah, whatever. Fine.

Who those picks eventually got traded to and what those teams used them for is completely irrelevant. Buffalo owned them and used them to get a QB who might eventually become a franchise QB. You said: And that's just dumb. Using the 12th, the 53rd and the 56th picks and Cordy Glenn besides to get an offensive player is anything but neglecting the offense. It's building the foundation for the offense.

Got a riddle for you. When is the #16 offense a top ten offense? And the correct answer is "Um, what?" You're talking about the 2016 offense, presumably, and they were the #16 offense, that's a fact. If you're referring to the fact that we were the #10 team at scoring, that's correct, but it's NOT a stat that even comes close to isolating the offense. It's a team stat, maybe 60 - 70% offense but with a ton of contribution from the D and the STs. When the Bills offense scores a pick six, the offense hasn't accomplished anything even if scoring goes up seven points. And when the defense intercepts and returns it to the two yard-line and the offense loses 10 yards and kicks an FG, that looks great for people who think that scoring is an offensive stat. But it's not. That was not a good offense. It was a decent offense, an offense that could run the ball extremely well but was well below-average at passing.They had the 11th-best average drive start, and that's because they had a higher than average number of really good starts. And in turn they left the defense the 23rd best average drive start. As for how that's different from Rex, there's a vast difference. Rex came in promising he could reload. He was just so daggone terrific that he was going to compete for a title - and soon- with a QB like Tyrod. "Is this thing on? Because it's going to be on." He didn't need no stinking rebuild. McDermott and Beane on the other hand knew that with the salary cap a shambles and no real QB that they were going to need a rebuild. They didn't promise any different. And while the offense is certainly worse this year at least the defense got a ton better and they brought in a potential franchise QB so that the future has real hope. Rebuilds this complete suck. That's who they are. That's what they do. And being handed a crappy cap situation made things even worse.

Well, yeah. Of course. It's what happens when you do a near-complete rebuild.

Yup. But that's what happens in a near-complete rebuild. There were a number of people who before the season kept predicting that since we'd won nine last year that we were going to be good again, maybe better. These people kept hearing the FO hint that it was going to be a tough season. They saw pundits say the Bills were going to win three to seven games. But they were way too smart to believe that and kept telling everyone the Bills were better than that and kept predicting eight, nine, ten wins. And now they're furious with the FO, not understanding that the problem isn't with under-performance but with their own pre-season overoptimism.

Yeah, we knew. We also knew that keeping them in games by not throwing INTs while putting up sub-mediocre throwing numbers wasn't going to get us competitive for a Super Bowl. So they got rid of him and brought in a QB who might get us competitive. Eventually. Might. Me, I didn't want three or four more years of seven and eight wins. Yeah, Tyrod could've got us that. No thanks. Gimme a rebuild and a couple of seasons of major suckage with at least a real shot a being competitive in the long term.

Apples and oranges. Rex told the Pegulas he could reload immediately. They wouldn't need time. He could make the defense great right away. They were just a few pieces away. Remember this one? "Is this thing on? Because it's getting ready to be on!" Or remember this one from Rex in his introductory press conference? "You mentioned how well we played on defense last year. Fourth in the league is probably a little disappointing, to be honest with you, because that's not where my expectations are. I know we'll lead the league in defense." These new guys approached it completely differently. They didn't try to snow the Pegulas with moonbeams and fairy dust. They told them correctly that the cap was in crappy shape and that the roster wasn't any better than mediocre and that you need a QB to win in the NFL and you aren't going to get one by reloading. They told them it would take a while. That's the difference. What's irrational is thinking there's enough info on this FO to give them anything remotely like a final grade. Doing so is a knee-jerk reaction.

It's not clear whether we'll ever be a great team. It might happen and it might not. Depends mostly on how good their roster becomes. But this is how it works in a rebuild. You suck and then you suck some more. And then you continue sucking. It's painful. And out of that, the teams that have managed to get a franchise QB and handle the rest of their roster well hit a tipping point. Two years before they won the Super Bowl, Bill Walsh's 49ers won two games and lost 14. Did it look like they were building a winning culture? No. People were calling for Walsh's head. But were they in fact building a winning culture? Um, yeah. It didn't look like it at the time, but yes they absolutely were.

Fair enough. But not football. Coaches and players can't afford to tank here. It can destroy their job prospects more or less completely.

So, using the 12th, 53rd and 56th picks on the offense is neglecting it? 'Cause those three picks and Cordy Glenn besides were all traded for the pick we used on Josh Allen. We didn't neglect the offense at all. Getting your franchise QB (we hope) is pretty much the opposite of neglect. But apart from that, yeah, they spent most of the rest of their draft and cap resources on the defense. This early in a rebuild, especially a rebuild that starts with cap trouble, you aren't going to be able to fill all the holes. That's just the way it works. People get all pissed that we didn't spend more resources on the offense. If we had, the defense would be a lot worse. Would it really have been that much more satisfying to have a poor offense and a poor defense, both? Not for me. At least I can see good football when the D is on the field.

I very very much agree that we need to be patient. But we aren't tanking. We just aren't. It's a hockey word, first of all. But if we were doing what is correctly called a complete rebuild, we'd've traded Shady and Tyrod before the 2016 season and probably Hughes, Kyle Williams and Incognito as well. Some of which would've worked out a lot better than what we did. If we'd completely rebuilt, it wouldn't have been that difficult to avoid the playoffs last year and maximize that draft pick in this last year's draft, which is the time when getting a high pick was absolutely necessary to get a QB. They're not trying to lose. McDermott is working as hard as he can, but yeah, they knew it would be tough sledding this year. I wish they had done it. I wish they had rebuilt completely and stripped the team of all older talent before last year. But they didn't and they have brought in a lot of talent, especially on that defense. But yeah, the rebuild isn't a complete one, but it's a serious rebuild. And yeah, this year was always going to suck. And you're exactly right that they made getting the cap problems completely taken care of a major priority this year, as they had promised the Pegulas they would. That prevented bringing in talent and mandated getting rid of a lot of young guys they maybe could otherwise have kept some of.

He's always curled up when he's about to be smashed and won't be able to get away. Reasonable choice for a guy with his frame. I don't see it more than I ever have. I just see him consistently not having holes or good cutback lanes. You might be right I suppose, about retirement. I doubt it, personally. I don't see him giving up the $6.425 mill, or the chance to add to his legacy. He's seen bad teams before, he was on a 4-12 team in Philly.

Having a competition was fine. They wanted - very very reasonably - to sit Allen for his first season or a great deal of it. Would've helped him a lot. The injuries and poor performances unfortunately eliminated that possibility. And with Allen sitting, of course they wanted a competition. How can someone be the obvious choice when he can't beat out Peterman? He can't. Because he wasn't obvious or a good choice. The problem was not bringing in a vet the minute they got rid of McCarron. They should've kept him or replaced him with a grizzled vet. I do get the frustration. Man, this is hard to watch, really really painful. But this stage of a rebuild always is. Bills fans have to bite the bullet and watch for development.

The two injured QBs he's referring to are Anderson and Allen. And while Tyrod is better than anyone we have, it would not have been rational to keep him, for financial reasons but also because one thing you want in a backup QB on a rebuilding team is a guy who will not require a different scheme. You want the team to use the scheme they hope to use going forward so they have a year's experience in it when they - hopefully - start to improve the next year. Maximizing Tyrod means switching the scheme around. And a rebuilding team also wants a backup who can be a QB whisperer to the young guy. There's no particular reason to think Tyrod is that. A better QB? Yeah. A good fit? No, not at all. But yeah, looking back, they sure should have brought in somebody, perhaps Anderson or Barkley as soon as they let McCarron go, or bringing in one of those two instead of McCarron. Though I thought going into the season that McCarron was better than Anderson or Barkley.

If you think that's worked out for Denver, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Denver's 3-5. Whereas last year at this point they were 3-5. Last year they were the 13th ranked offense and this year they've moved to 17th. Yeah, "Keenum only has 10 TDs, but that's more than Manning, Prescott, Smith, Mayfield ..." But he also had 10 INTs which is less than ... nobody. Darnold and Winston have tied him at 10 and everybody else has fewer. Keenum's 10 TDs put him on track to beat Denver's last year's total of 19 by one. He has racked up more yards but he's got a passer rating of 83.0. Last year the Broncos put up an 84.5. And while it's possible Case Keenum might have signed with Buffalo, is it likely? To a team that was obviously going to draft someone and had a receiver corps like ours?

I think it's you who's missing the point. How could choosing Peterman define McDermott when he has no other choice. It's a dumb statement. If the statement had been different, something about bringing in a different QB at some point, my answer would have been different. It's simply a dumb headline. And your post here is wacky and non-responsive.

You may be right. In a couple of years we'll know. Depends mostly on Josh Allen and how he develops, IMHO.

Nah. The last 17 years were a series of GMs and coaches refusing to rebuild. "Sure, we were 7-9 last year but that was only bad luck. Next year we'll definitely do it. We don't need a rebuild. We'll just reload and reload and reload and reload." That's what's made the last 17 years so awful. Consciously choosing the hell of a rebuild is pretty much the opposite of what was done for nearly all of the last 17 years.

Good post.