ExiledInIllinois Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Make your retirement accounts go up. Not if they are killing me first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Again... What do they do with that 7%? Make health insurance more affordable for everyone? I don't care if it is on penny over. Explain to me why they have to run for profit? Health insurance that is. No, they return it to the owners of the company. You know....the people that risked their money to start the venture in the first place to provide people with ANY health insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 http://www.unitedhealthgroup.com/invest/20...2009release.pdf yeah making $1 billion in profit is so low oh thank you god, someone just put the ball up on the tee for me. So allow me to smack this out of the park, http://biz.yahoo.com/p/522qpmd.html Health insurers ranks #86 by profit margin (profits/revenue) at 3.3% . Measured by profit margin, there are 85 industries more profitable than Health Care Plans (including Cigna, Aetna, WellPoint, HealthSpring, etc.). http://biz.yahoo.com/p/sum_qpmd.html http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aci3ct0e9J8w “There are other sectors whose profits dramatically exceed our modest profits,” Williams said. Publicly traded insurers generated about $11 billion in net income in 2008 and nonprofit Blue Cross Blue Shield plans made less than $2 billion, said Carl McDonald, an Oppenheimer & Co. analyst in New York, in a July note issued when Democrats first raised the idea of industry fees. Obama’s proposal to tax health insurance plans may lead to an increase in premiums paid by consumers, especially union members who often have the most expensive plans, said Uwe Reinhardt, professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton University. Passing the Buck “When you tax the corporation, no matter what the tax is, it will be passed on to somebody,” Reinhardt said in an interview with Bloomberg. “In this case, it will be passed on to premiums.” Reinhardt also said that Obama’s proposed cost of $900 billion over ten years won’t be enough to provide universal health coverage, which he estimates would cost more than $1.5 trillion. Obama hasn’t given a fair portrait of the industry, or the true reasons for rising medical costs in the U.S., said Binns, the spokeswoman for Indianapolis-based WellPoint. UnitedHealth Group Inc., of Minnetonka, Minnesota, is the largest provider. “We disagree with the president’s continued mischaracterization of the health-care industry,” she said in an e-mail. “Health insurer profits account for less than 1 percent of every health-care dollar.” Ok, so for those who don't understand economics, added competition won't significantly bring down the cost considering the profit margins are at 3.3%. What are they going to do? Cut it down to 2.3%? If you want to add more competition, then open up the statelines and allow health insurers to compete with one another, because as of right now, they are prohibited to do so. There was a study done by WellPoint Blue Cross BlueShield recently, and in that study; Three cents of every health insurance premium dollar collected go toward insurer profits, while 87 cents go toward medical care, out of the other 10 cents, 6 of it goes towards malpractice suits and other related "administrative costs", and out of that 87 cents it is estimated up to as much as 15 cents is used in defensive medicine, which a lot of that is attributed to doctors and hospitals administering wasteful tests and procedures just so they don't get sued. So if we are going to correct the problem, let's correct the problem. That sort of like having a brain aneurysm and then performing heart surgery to correct it It is quite clear that if you want to add competition, then you open up the statelines, not create one of the largest entitlement programs in the history of the US, and it is also clear that we need effective Tort Reform, but of course, we know which special interest groups don't want that to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Should anything in the medical/health profession be "for profit?" Seems to run contradictory to the Hippocratic Oath. I think the insurance industry should also abide by it. Modern Hippocratic Oath ...I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism... ...I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick... Well in that case let's just nationalize all the pharmaceutical companies and while we're at it, doctors should all be on government salaried payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Not if they are killing me first. I sat here with fingers poised on keyboard to respond and for the life of me I couldn't think of anything to say. And shutting me up is one hell of a feat. That is one of the most idiotic statements you've made here. Another grand feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Well in that case let's just nationalize all the pharmaceutical companies and while we're at it, doctors should all be on government salaried payroll. Isn't that one of the proposals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Isn't that one of the proposals? It's just a matter of time, just a matter of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Health insurers ranks #86 by profit margin (profits/revenue) at 3.3% . Measured by profit margin, there are 85 industries more profitable than Health Care Plans (including Cigna, Aetna, WellPoint, HealthSpring, etc.). I will say that some of those average profit margins (listed above health care) are just as ridiculous. Quite honestly, Health care is something everyone should be able to afford. Now, the fact that one of the largest insurers is making 7% profit as listed earlier. That means that they could cut everyone's cost 6.4% on insurance right off hand to break even. I agree with EinI that the health insurers should be non-profit. No corporation should be able to benefit off telling people that "we are going to let you die after years of paying for help in this moment." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 IT service delivery Cool, I am writing these down for my son. In case his dream of being a comic book artist fails, maybe he can find a job with high pay and virtually no expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I will say that some of those average profit margins (listed above health care) are just as ridiculous. Quite honestly, Health care is something everyone should be able to afford. Now, the fact that one of the largest insurers is making 7% profit as listed earlier. That means that they could cut everyone's cost 6.4% on insurance right off hand to break even. I agree with EinI that the health insurers should be non-profit. No corporation should be able to benefit off telling people that "we are going to let you die after years of paying for help in this moment." How about the insurance company that pays out tens thousands of dollars in benefits to someone who only has paid in hundreds of dollars in premiums. Yeah, that's right you never hear about those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I will say that some of those average profit margins (listed above health care) are just as ridiculous. Quite honestly, Health care is something everyone should be able to afford. Now, the fact that one of the largest insurers is making 7% profit as listed earlier. That means that they could cut everyone's cost 6.4% on insurance right off hand to break even. I agree with EinI that the health insurers should be non-profit. No corporation should be able to benefit off telling people that "we are going to let you die after years of paying for help in this moment." Well in that case you are all in favor for socialized medicine across the board. Doctors, Hospitals, drugmakers, health service industries and health insurers should all be nationalized and be employed by the government, that's basically what you are saying. That's fine, it's your opinion. In regards to your 6.4% comment, they are not in it to break even, is it ok that they make a small profit? and let's not cherry pick one or two states, the national average is 3.3%. If you want to fix that problem, then you open up the state lines and allow other health insurers to come in and compete with them, you don't create another immense entitlement program, specially when we have an $11 Trillion dollar deficit that is set to expand to $20 Trillion in the next 10 years, and that is according to the utopian pink farts and unicorns White House projections. According to these figures, in 10 years the interest payments alone on an annual basis on our deficit will be more than the Afghanistan and Iraq War combined. That's just insane. There is no need for a "public option", none. We can lower health care costs with intrastate competition between the privately owned health insurers and effective tort reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 How about the insurance company that pays out tens thousands of dollars in benefits to someone who only has paid in hundreds of dollars in premiums. Yeah, that's right you never hear about those. yeah you are right... however, i would be fine with an insurance company saying no in the situation. I am not against the companies telling a new customer they can't pay for $100,000 + treatment and should look for a cheaper alternative. The converse of that situation happens a lot and it pisses me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Cool, I am writing these down for my son. In case his dream of being a comic book artist fails, maybe he can find a job with high pay and virtually no expectations. Bookmark this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Bookmark this site This is my 13 year old son we are talking about. Have a sense of decency... C'mon comic book artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 yeah you are right... however, i would be fine with an insurance company saying no in the situation. I am not against the companies telling a new customer they can't pay for $100,000 + treatment and should look for a cheaper alternative. The converse of that situation happens a lot and it pisses me off. Sounds like someone needs to learn what and how insurance works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 Sounds like someone needs to learn what and how insurance works. what? all i said is that i don't think it would be right for someone who put $100 in and got $100,000 out in coverage, and i don't think it is right that someone that has paid into a policy for years, gets told to screw off when they need a procedure. I don't think there is anything super wrong about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 what? all i said is that i don't think it would be right for someone who put $100 in and got $100,000 out in coverage, and i don't think it is right that someone that has paid into a policy for years, gets told to screw off when they need a procedure. I don't think there is anything super wrong about this. It is the whole concept of insurance. Risk management through the law of large numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 It is the whole concept of insurance. Risk management through the law of large numbers. Right, but we can all agree (well most anyway) that there does need to be a change. It may not be at the insurance company level, it may not be at other levels. Surely a stipulation could be attached to the policy changing things so that you only receive certain maximum benefits after a certain period of time. No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Right, but we can all agree (well most anyway) that there does need to be a change. It may not be at the insurance company level, it may not be at other levels. Surely a stipulation could be attached to the policy changing things so that you only receive certain maximum benefits after a certain period of time. No? I know you weren't asking me, but I can agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Right, but we can all agree (well most anyway) that there does need to be a change. It may not be at the insurance company level, it may not be at other levels. Surely a stipulation could be attached to the policy changing things so that you only receive certain maximum benefits after a certain period of time. No? Absolutely we need change. And lots of it is with the way the insurance companies do business. But to completely overhaul the health care system is not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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