Please - be honest with what '09 will be...

[CarwellGardner]

Here's a rather obvious point I'd like to offer as we continue to disect this team through the preseason... and remember, it is the preseason. I so respect the enthusiasm and love that is consistently displayed on this board. It is one of the reasons I am so proud to be a lifelong Bills fan. Even though my family and I live very far away from Buffalo both myself and my kids know the Bills to be our team.

 

Here's my two cents - One key aspect of winning in football at ALL LEVELS is those positions and schemes CLOSET TO THE BALL. Simply stated, if we do not improve in the area at the line of scrimmage we will not improve this year and will continue to struggle in this division. Each of our rivals approach the game with a very physical, tough, punch you in the f'ing mouth attitude and as of yet neither our players, head coach or mgmt embody that attitude or ability. Do we have a few that have it within themselves (Poz, Whitner, Marshawn)? - yes. The bulk of our guys? Average at best, high character, Dick Juron/Marv kind of people... good citizens and great for Wegmans commercials and March of Dimes functions. So what's my point - simply this, please let's all be very honest with what we have here talent-wise before we spend anymore time bashing our Bills to be more than they are capable of for the year.

 

The teams that are regularly successful in the playoffs are the teams that are the most physical. They have depth and talent and grit CLOSEST TO THE BALL. We, as of yet, are not built this way. Couple that with our lack of cohesiveness and leadership in the front office and you have a middle of the road team not positioned to do anymore that in recent year's past.

 

O-Line: the NEW center was a guard, one ROOKIE guard was a center in college, the other ROOKIE guard a tackle, the left tackle is a right tackle, and the right tackle is a guard (I know he played it in college). Not only is everyone on this group either learning or re-learning a new position but two of them are rookies. It is a complete overhaul. It is also one of the few areas during the preseason where you can really get an accurate sneak peek at what you can expect during the regular season. If guys are getting rolled because of poor technique and scheme then that is not something that you can fix during the season with personnel moves - only playcalling. The Green Bay game was a prime example of what I am speaking of... man to man, at the snap, 1st team (key point) players being overwhelmed and beaten - regularly.

 

D-Line: Finished '08 #22 vs Run; T-3rd worst (28th) in sacks @ 24

Kelsay: finished 41st for D-lineman in tackles

41st Chris Kelsay BUF DE 47 tkls 33 solo 14 ast 2.0 sacks 1 FF

Stroud: 48th Marcus Stroud BUF DT 45 tkls 29 solo 16 ast 2.5 sacks 1 ff

Williams (the best of the group!): 16th Kyle Williams BUF DT 55 tkls 37 solo 18 ast 2.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: he actually finished 8th amongst all interior lineman in tkls!

Denney: 58 tkls 40 solo 18 ast 4.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: actually much better than I would have guessed and notably better than Kelsay!?!

Schobel: obviously w the injury the jury is still out on how effective he can be...

Maybin: undersized (250) and young (came out after soph year) but very athletic and raw - great upside

 

Finally, examine the actions of those that we must beat to succeed and move forward. They DO MORE TO IMPROVE consistently that our owner and management are willing to do. This is a fact and it is unfortunate. This team once embodied the attitude and spirit of the hard working people of Western NY - those prodominantly blue-collar people that pay exorbident amounts of money to watch and support them... but that is no longer the case. I have the utmost respect for Ralph and what he has meant to the game and the area but until their is some sense of urgency that is passed down from those between him and the field we will remain - stagnant and average.

 

Guys, I hope I'm wrong. I love this team, its fans and its owner. But neither you or I or even Ralph can control the product on the field on Sundays. Only the players and their coach can do that. So be fair with your assesments - watch other teams. Listen to how successfull coaches address the media - especially after losses or poor performance. I don't doubt our team - I am just to a point as a die-hard fan that I want to be realistic with what I believe this team can achieve. That being said - Dick, feel free to surprise me.

 

Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, Andre, Talley, Bennett and best of all Carwell are not "walking through that door" anymore.

 

Buffalove in KY for ever. Go Bills!

[QB Bills]

Here's a rather obvious point I'd like to offer as we continue to disect this team through the preseason... and remember, it is the preseason. I so respect the enthusiasm and love that is consistently displayed on this board. It is one of the reasons I am so proud to be a lifelong Bills fan. Even though my family and I live very far away from Buffalo both myself and my kids know the Bills to be our team.

 

Here's my two cents - One key aspect of winning in football at ALL LEVELS is those positions and schemes CLOSET TO THE BALL. Simply stated, if we do not improve in the area at the line of scrimmage we will not improve this year and will continue to struggle in this division. Each of our rivals approach the game with a very physical, tough, punch you in the f'ing mouth attitude and as of yet neither our players, head coach or mgmt embody that attitude or ability. Do we have a few that have it within themselves (Poz, Whitner, Marshawn)? - yes. The bulk of our guys? Average at best, high character, Dick Juron/Marv kind of people... good citizens and great for Wegmans commercials and March of Dimes functions. So what's my point - simply this, please let's all be very honest with what we have here talent-wise before we spend anymore time bashing our Bills to be more than they are capable of for the year.

 

The teams that are regularly successful in the playoffs are the teams that are the most physical. They have depth and talent and grit CLOSEST TO THE BALL. We, as of yet, are not built this way. Couple that with our lack of cohesiveness and leadership in the front office and you have a middle of the road team not positioned to do anymore that in recent year's past.

 

O-Line: the NEW center was a guard, one ROOKIE guard was a center in college, the other ROOKIE guard a tackle, the left tackle is a right tackle, and the right tackle is a guard (I know he played it in college). Not only is everyone on this group either learning or re-learning a new position but two of them are rookies. It is a complete overhaul. It is also one of the few areas during the preseason where you can really get an accurate sneak peek at what you can expect during the regular season. If guys are getting rolled because of poor technique and scheme then that is not something that you can fix during the season with personnel moves - only playcalling. The Green Bay game was a prime example of what I am speaking of... man to man, at the snap, 1st team (key point) players being overwhelmed and beaten - regularly.

 

D-Line: Finished '08 #22 vs Run; T-3rd worst (28th) in sacks @ 24

Kelsay: finished 41st for D-lineman in tackles

41st Chris Kelsay BUF DE 47 tkls 33 solo 14 ast 2.0 sacks 1 FF

Stroud: 48th Marcus Stroud BUF DT 45 tkls 29 solo 16 ast 2.5 sacks 1 ff

Williams (the best of the group!): 16th Kyle Williams BUF DT 55 tkls 37 solo 18 ast 2.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: he actually finished 8th amongst all interior lineman in tkls!

Denney: 58 tkls 40 solo 18 ast 4.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: actually much better than I would have guessed and notably better than Kelsay!?!

Schobel: obviously w the injury the jury is still out on how effective he can be...

Maybin: undersized (250) and young (came out after soph year) but very athletic and raw - great upside

 

Finally, examine the actions of those that we must beat to succeed and move forward. They DO MORE TO IMPROVE consistently that our owner and management are willing to do. This is a fact and it is unfortunate. This team once embodied the attitude and spirit of the hard working people of Western NY - those prodominantly blue-collar people that pay exorbident amounts of money to watch and support them... but that is no longer the case. I have the utmost respect for Ralph and what he has meant to the game and the area but until their is some sense of urgency that is passed down from those between him and the field we will remain - stagnant and average.

 

Guys, I hope I'm wrong. I love this team, its fans and its owner. But neither you or I or even Ralph can control the product on the field on Sundays. Only the players and their coach can do that. So be fair with your assesments - watch other teams. Listen to how successfull coaches address the media - especially after losses or poor performance. I don't doubt our team - I am just to a point as a die-hard fan that I want to be realistic with what I believe this team can achieve. That being said - Dick, feel free to surprise me.

 

Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, Andre, Talley, Bennett and best of all Carwell are not "walking through that door" anymore.

 

Buffalove in KY for ever. Go Bills!

don't know whether to laugh or cry at that

[PromoTheRobot]

This is a stupid question since none of us have any real idea of what this team will be doing once the season starts. Based on the GB game we are going 0-16. Based on the Bears game we are making the playoffs. I predict something between the two. How's that for honesty?

 

PTR

[Metal Man]

Great post.... but there is nothing really new there.

 

Both lines have been a big problem for a long time now. That is the most frustrating part about it all for me, after a certain amount of time you would think we would at least be heading in the right direction, but instead every year we seem to be starting over. :thumbsup:

[The Big Cat]

Yeah, but if we had a different coach, all these guys would become magically better

[CarwellGardner]

Yeah, but if we had a different coach, all these guys would become magically better

 

I'm with you Big Cat. I'm not suggesting that this is a matter of just replacing the coach but he is what he is - he's a lifetime sub .500 football coach. In football it always 100% of the time comes down to the HC. Just ask the Cowboys.

[rstencel]

I think TO will help improve the passing game considerably, but the no huddle offence will kill the defense. Overall I do not think we will do as well as last year, since wont have benefit of a fast start, do to the chemestry issues on offensive line, and what i think will be below average linebacker play on defense. And mostly the fact we play allot of games against 3-4 defenses, but doesnt appear as if TE can read that defense for pass rush or coverage very well at this point in his developement.

 

My guess is 6-10.

[Erik Flowers]

Here's a rather obvious point I'd like to offer as we continue to disect this team through the preseason... and remember, it is the preseason. I so respect the enthusiasm and love that is consistently displayed on this board. It is one of the reasons I am so proud to be a lifelong Bills fan. Even though my family and I live very far away from Buffalo both myself and my kids know the Bills to be our team.

 

Here's my two cents - One key aspect of winning in football at ALL LEVELS is those positions and schemes CLOSET TO THE BALL. Simply stated, if we do not improve in the area at the line of scrimmage we will not improve this year and will continue to struggle in this division. Each of our rivals approach the game with a very physical, tough, punch you in the f'ing mouth attitude and as of yet neither our players, head coach or mgmt embody that attitude or ability. Do we have a few that have it within themselves (Poz, Whitner, Marshawn)? - yes. The bulk of our guys? Average at best, high character, Dick Juron/Marv kind of people... good citizens and great for Wegmans commercials and March of Dimes functions. So what's my point - simply this, please let's all be very honest with what we have here talent-wise before we spend anymore time bashing our Bills to be more than they are capable of for the year.

 

The teams that are regularly successful in the playoffs are the teams that are the most physical. They have depth and talent and grit CLOSEST TO THE BALL. We, as of yet, are not built this way. Couple that with our lack of cohesiveness and leadership in the front office and you have a middle of the road team not positioned to do anymore that in recent year's past.

 

O-Line: the NEW center was a guard, one ROOKIE guard was a center in college, the other ROOKIE guard a tackle, the left tackle is a right tackle, and the right tackle is a guard (I know he played it in college). Not only is everyone on this group either learning or re-learning a new position but two of them are rookies. It is a complete overhaul. It is also one of the few areas during the preseason where you can really get an accurate sneak peek at what you can expect during the regular season. If guys are getting rolled because of poor technique and scheme then that is not something that you can fix during the season with personnel moves - only playcalling. The Green Bay game was a prime example of what I am speaking of... man to man, at the snap, 1st team (key point) players being overwhelmed and beaten - regularly.

 

D-Line: Finished '08 #22 vs Run; T-3rd worst (28th) in sacks @ 24

Kelsay: finished 41st for D-lineman in tackles

41st Chris Kelsay BUF DE 47 tkls 33 solo 14 ast 2.0 sacks 1 FF

Stroud: 48th Marcus Stroud BUF DT 45 tkls 29 solo 16 ast 2.5 sacks 1 ff

Williams (the best of the group!): 16th Kyle Williams BUF DT 55 tkls 37 solo 18 ast 2.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: he actually finished 8th amongst all interior lineman in tkls!

Denney: 58 tkls 40 solo 18 ast 4.0 sacks 1 ff

NOTE: actually much better than I would have guessed and notably better than Kelsay!?!

Schobel: obviously w the injury the jury is still out on how effective he can be...

Maybin: undersized (250) and young (came out after soph year) but very athletic and raw - great upside

 

Finally, examine the actions of those that we must beat to succeed and move forward. They DO MORE TO IMPROVE consistently that our owner and management are willing to do. This is a fact and it is unfortunate. This team once embodied the attitude and spirit of the hard working people of Western NY - those prodominantly blue-collar people that pay exorbident amounts of money to watch and support them... but that is no longer the case. I have the utmost respect for Ralph and what he has meant to the game and the area but until their is some sense of urgency that is passed down from those between him and the field we will remain - stagnant and average.

 

Guys, I hope I'm wrong. I love this team, its fans and its owner. But neither you or I or even Ralph can control the product on the field on Sundays. Only the players and their coach can do that. So be fair with your assesments - watch other teams. Listen to how successfull coaches address the media - especially after losses or poor performance. I don't doubt our team - I am just to a point as a die-hard fan that I want to be realistic with what I believe this team can achieve. That being said - Dick, feel free to surprise me.

 

Jim Kelly, Thurman, Bruce, Andre, Talley, Bennett and best of all Carwell are not "walking through that door" anymore.

 

Buffalove in KY for ever. Go Bills!

 

This team is seriously lacking in talent at WAY too many positions to be competitive this year. That lack of talent is only compounded by the poor coaching and losing culture that has developed over the last 10 years. It will take a head down change in leadership and a serious influx of talent to reverse this trend.

[bizell]

judging a D-line by their amount of tackles isn't really a good indicator of a line's success

[loyal2dagame]

I think TO will help improve the passing game considerably, but the no huddle offence will kill the defense. Overall I do not think we will do as well as last year, since wont have benefit of a fast start, do to the chemestry issues on offensive line, and what i think will be below average linebacker play on defense. And mostly the fact we play allot of games against 3-4 defenses, but doesnt appear as if TE can read that defense for pass rush or coverage very well at this point in his developement.

 

My guess is 6-10.

 

ditto

[BillsVet]

This is a stupid question since none of us have any real idea of what this team will be doing once the season starts. Based on the GB game we are going 0-16. Based on the Bears game we are making the playoffs. I predict something between the two. How's that for honesty?

 

PTR

 

If you don't know where this team is going, you're not paying attention. Rose colored glasses are to this board what Blublockers are to senior citizens. If a team regresses during the preseason when confronted with the very defense which decimated them last season, how can that be considered pessimistic?

 

The offense is strong at the skill positions, but weak up front. Same with the defense, where they have the guys possibly in the secondary, but the front 7 isn't stellar. This will translate into serious problems, many of which were revelated in 2008.

 

As the OP pointed out, the lines are the issue. Buffalo's spent 12 of their top 14 picks from 06-08 on skill positions. They tried to buy an OL and it didn't work. After three drafts, they finally admitted a need to draft linemen. Too little too late for DJ and the 09 Bills, but hopefully for the future.

[Fan in Chicago]

I think TO will help improve the passing game considerably, but the no huddle offence will kill the defense. Overall I do not think we will do as well as last year, since wont have benefit of a fast start, do to the chemestry issues on offensive line, and what i think will be below average linebacker play on defense. And mostly the fact we play allot of games against 3-4 defenses, but doesnt appear as if TE can read that defense for pass rush or coverage very well at this point in his developement.

 

My guess is 6-10.

Only if ineffective. The no huddle will not increase the time the D is on the field if it is able to sustain drives. Problem is if we are terrible on O, the 3 and outs are more hurtful if you are in no huddle mode. To do well in the no huddle, besides the QB's ability to correctly call the plays, the personnel on the field need to be versatile. The RB has to be able to block during the pass plays and in case of blitzes. The OL has to be universally good in pass and rush blocking. The TE has to be able to block and perhaps be a bit of a FB during rushing downs. Thus, more than the concept, I am concerned about the ability of our current personnel to pull of a successful no huddle attack (or lack thereof).

[JStranger76]

Short and sweet for me. The only way this team has a winning record is if the offense finishes mostly healthy and around 10th in yardage and scoring. The D is missing another DT to pair with Stroud and the LBers are too slow, too small, or both.

[rstencel]

Only if ineffective. The no huddle will not increase the time the D is on the field if it is able to sustain drives. Problem is if we are terrible on O, the 3 and outs are more hurtful if you are in no huddle mode. To do well in the no huddle, besides the QB's ability to correctly call the plays, the personnel on the field need to be versatile. The RB has to be able to block during the pass plays and in case of blitzes. The OL has to be universally good in pass and rush blocking. The TE has to be able to block and perhaps be a bit of a FB during rushing downs. Thus, more than the concept, I am concerned about the ability of our current personnel to pull of a successful no huddle attack (or lack thereof).

 

No huddle usually is effective only if the offense is more talented than the defense. While we have some good receivers and decent running back, or QB is still hot and cold, and offensive line will hopefully be at least average. When phasing teams with very skilled players at end or lb position, it can be very vulnerable. Line doesn't get chance to discuss things between plays to fix potential communication issues, and more likely for plays to break down for both offense and defense. This is where k-gun excelled, in that they had a very good line, and skill players to take advantage of defenses mistakes, while being skilled enough to cover for most of their own breakdowns. Plus they ran only a handful of run and pass plays over and over with only a few changes from game to game. They ran those plays so well, that was tough for defense to tell what play they were running most of time, as they started allot alike, and were run very crisp. Don't see that in this offense honestly. We aren't going to out skill many other teams in the league, I do not believe.

 

Another reason I don't see it as being as affective as was in past, is that defenses have microphones now too, so they can get plays in very quick, and also plan for subs a play ahead of time, to loose some of advantage of tiring out the defenses due to not being able to sub.

 

So basically I agree with what you said.

[birdog1960]

I'm with you Big Cat. I'm not suggesting that this is a matter of just replacing the coach but he is what he is - he's a lifetime sub .500 football coach. In football it always 100% of the time comes down to the HC. Just ask the Cowboys.

More importantly, Ralph is a lifetime sub .500 owner.

[PromoTheRobot]

If you don't know where this team is going, you're not paying attention. Rose colored glasses are to this board what Blublockers are to senior citizens. If a team regresses during the preseason when confronted with the very defense which decimated them last season, how can that be considered pessimistic?

 

The offense is strong at the skill positions, but weak up front. Same with the defense, where they have the guys possibly in the secondary, but the front 7 isn't stellar. This will translate into serious problems, many of which were revelated in 2008.

 

As the OP pointed out, the lines are the issue. Buffalo's spent 12 of their top 14 picks from 06-08 on skill positions. They tried to buy an OL and it didn't work. After three drafts, they finally admitted a need to draft linemen. Too little too late for DJ and the 09 Bills, but hopefully for the future.

So why are any of us still here? If it's so freakin' bad find another team to follow, or take up gardening on Sundays. I swear to god, I don't know what's worse, the Bills losing or people endlessly whining about it? There's a simple solution. DON'T FOLLOW THE TEAM. You're welcome.

 

PTR

[Coach55]

More importantly, Ralph is a lifetime sub .500 owner.

Just remember Marv was a sub .500 lifetime coach with only one winning season until the Bills started their run in 1988 (40-55 over 4 full seasons and 2 partials).

[rstencel]

So why are any of us still here? If it's so freakin' bad find another team to follow, or take up gardening on Sundays. I swear to god, I don't know what's worse, the Bills losing or people endlessly whining about it? There's a simple solution. DON'T FOLLOW THE TEAM. You're welcome.

 

PTR

 

 

If people only followed winning teams, there would be only a few teams with fans. You can still love a team, without having to wear the rose colored shades.

[stuckincincy]

The ST rules changed.

[Erik Flowers]

If people only followed winning teams, there would be only a few teams with fans. You can still love a team, without having to wear the rose colored shades.

 

+1. Being realistic about the season lessens the pain when they find new and exciting ways to lose. I have followed the Bills since birth and always will (unless they leave Buffalo), but being a Bills fan doesn't require you blindly believe they are going to win the SB every year.