Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 precisely. I was in Biloxi Miss. the day Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. Some of these posts remind me of the comments I heard down there that day. That's an awful comparison. Ted Kennedy had a hand in passing a lot of legislation. Excellent. That doesn't change the fact that he wasn't exactly a solid person himself. Martin Luther King Jr. was a great leader in his life's work, the civil rights movement. The difference - MLK was, by all accounts, just as great of a person himself as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I notice you didn't try to discredit the Washington Times excerpt. I have an 11:30 meeting with a retired judge who gets cranky when I'm late, so don't have time for this nonsense right now - will cite another 20 or so authors later, so you can spend the rest of the evening discrediting them. Given your posts, I'm surprised the judge isn't grateful when you're late. I'm looking forward to your cast of characters and erudite historians given the tenor of your first reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 precisely. I was in Biloxi Miss. the day Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. Some of these posts remind me of the comments I heard down there that day. Yes, I'm sure the reaction in the deep south to MLK's death is exactly like what's happening here. Gimmie a friggin break. Post of the day right here: Call me a cynic, jerk, a**hole, whatever, but it bothers me how much ball washing goes on for someone like TK when they pass away. RIP, but the guy (IMO) was arrogant, pompous, self-serving, stubborn, and in general not that good of a person at all for much of the time when he lived, so that's exactly how I'm going to dictate how I react to his passing away. I'd much rather pay more attention and respect to good people losing their lives rather than Ted Kennedy or Michael Jackson types. I guess that's just not as interesting, though. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Don't see how you can be confused with Sage's post. While certainly a flawed human, Ted was a terrific Senator and a man devoted to public service. RIP, Ted. "what the American public doesn't know, is what makes them the American public". - Ray Zalinski It might be just me, but I don't think he gave a flying schitt about public service. He was more concerned with the title of Senator and the sense of entitlement all the other scumbag Kennedys think they have when it comes to American politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 That's an awful comparison. Ted Kennedy had a hand in passing a lot of legislation. Excellent. That doesn't change the fact that he wasn't exactly a solid person himself. Martin Luther King Jr. was a great leader in his life's work, the civil rights movement. The difference - MLK was, by all accounts, just as great of a person himself as well. now i am a HUGE MLK fan, and don't get me wrong. He was in my opinion one of the great men of the twentieth century. However he had a serial adultery problem. He wasn't as bad in that dept. as Ted Kennedy. but you should have heard the folks in Biloxi. Kind of like some on this board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 did he ever kill anyone? now i am a HUGE MLK fan, and don't get me wrong. He was in my opinion one of the great men of the twentieth century. However he had a serial adultery problem. He wasn't as bad in that dept. as Ted Kennedy. but you should have heard the folks in Biloxi. Kind of like some on this board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 did he ever kill anyone? How many times has this been brought up now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 did he ever kill anyone? Dunno. Perhaps. I am fairly certain there is no evidence that he "murdered" anyone, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Almost drove off a bridge when I heard this news. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullpen Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Sorry if my post offended anyone. I was not a fan of Mr. Kennedy and the whole handling of the Chappaquiddick accident was unadulterated BS. Nevertheless, I'm a horrible person. Mea Culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Almost drove off a bridge when I heard this news. Wow. *Rimshot* He'll be here all week, try the veal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 now i am a HUGE MLK fan, and don't get me wrong. He was in my opinion one of the great men of the twentieth century. However he had a serial adultery problem. He wasn't as bad in that dept. as Ted Kennedy. but you should have heard the folks in Biloxi. Kind of like some on this board! Just a guess, but that was probably because the people reacting in the deep south were both racist and pro-segregation. Possibly extremely on both accounts depending on the person. There's no wide dividing movement or happening behind peoples disdain of Ted Kennedy like the civil rights battle with MLK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 did he ever kill anyone? You mean like Laura Bush? http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp kill means generally to put to death knowingly or intentionally. Don't think Kennedy "killed" anyone either. And I'm willing to give Laura the benefit of the doubt as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 WTF does she have to do anything with the discussion at hand.....why pick Laura Bush...why not pick Joe Blow from Idaho who also was involved in a car accident....oh, is it because of her political affiliations?????? He 'allegedly' drove drunk and a passenger in his car was found dead the next day...probably shortly after he decided to report the accident.....'allegedly' 10 or more hours after it happened.....he killed Mary Jo Kopechne....although like I keep asking people....will you be paying respect to OJ when his time is up? after all, he was found not guilty in a court of law...so its not like he killed anyone You mean like Laura Bush? http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp kill means generally to put to death knowingly or intentionally. Don't think Kennedy "killed" anyone either. And I'm willing to give Laura the benefit of the doubt as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 You mean like Laura Bush? http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp kill means generally to put to death knowingly or intentionally. Don't think Kennedy "killed" anyone either. And I'm willing to give Laura the benefit of the doubt as well. I suggest you pick up a copy of this book. I just finished it and found it to be very interesting. I wonder if it will change your opinion of some of your heroes. http://www.amazon.com/Presidents-Secret-Se...1524&sr=8-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Dunno. Perhaps. I am fairly certain there is no evidence that he "murdered" anyone, though. No, just of womanslaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 not enough because everyone seems to gloss over it.... How many times has this been brought up now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 WTF does she have to do anything with the discussion at hand.....why pick Laura Bush...why not pick Joe Blow from Idaho who also was involved in a car accident....oh, is it because of her political affiliations?????? He 'allegedly' drove drunk and a passenger in his car was found dead the next day...probably shortly after he decided to report the accident.....'allegedly' 10 or more hours after it happened.....he killed Mary Jo Kopechne....although like I keep asking people....will you be paying respect to OJ when his time is up? after all, he was found not guilty in a court of law...so its not like he killed anyone Do you understand "intentionality"? Do you think Kennedy and OJ situations are comparable? Have you ever driven under the influence? I know many here have. One in particular, who loves to attack Ted for his Chappaquiddick incident, has several alcohol-related problems himself. So, are you (or the poster to remain nameless) really just a killer, who got lucky by managing to avoid a fatal accident? Yes, I understand people make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes have grave consequences. I still pay respect to those people when they die, particularly when they have given as much to country as Teddy has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 not enough because everyone seems to gloss over it.... Just like you gloss over the fact that he has also done a lot of good as well. Why don't you just make that part of signature and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Do you understand "intentionality"? Do you think Kennedy and OJ situations are comparable? Have you ever driven under the influence? I know many here have. One in particular, who loves to attack Ted for his Chappaquiddick incident, has several alcohol-related problems himself. So, are you (or the poster to remain nameless) really just a killer, who got lucky by managing to avoid a fatal accident? Yes, I understand people make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes have grave consequences. I still pay respect to those people when they die, particularly when they have given as much to country as Teddy has. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 what has he done good? in my eyes, he has supported a drive towards more socialist programs...programs I not in favor of....as someone pointed out he was also repsonsible for Title IX programs, another program I am not a fan of...so in my mind he hasn't done that much good...but again, that is my political view(I know i only gave 2 examples, i am certain he has worked on programs/initiative that I do find positive..i don't have examples of those but am sure I could find some)...of course there are those that are in favor of what he has done...that is fine....just cannot gloss over him being 'allegedly' responsible for the death of a person Just like you gloss over the fact that he has also done a lot of good as well. Why don't you just make that part of signature and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 what has he done good? in my eyes, he has supported a drive towards more socialist programs...programs I not in favor of....as someone pointed out he was also repsonsible for Title IX programs, another program I am not a fan of...so in my mind he hasn't done that much good...but again, that is my political view(I know i only gave 2 examples, i am certain he has worked on programs/initiative that I do find positive..i don't have examples of those but am sure I could find some)...of course there are those that are in favor of what he has done...that is fine....just cannot gloss over him being 'allegedly' responsible for the death of a person Ok, so he is so bad because he supported bills that you did not like. That bastard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I notice you didn't try to discredit the Washington Times excerpt. I have an 11:30 meeting with a retired judge who gets cranky when I'm late, so don't have time for this nonsense right now - will cite another 20 or so authors later, so you can spend the rest of the evening discrediting them. You beating up drunk cabbies again. RIP Teddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 You mean like Laura Bush? http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/laura.asp kill means generally to put to death knowingly or intentionally. Don't think Kennedy "killed" anyone either. And I'm willing to give Laura the benefit of the doubt as well. Right. Having a vehicle going into the drink with a passenger, extricating yourself and never looking back, and reporting the accident the next day is what every moral person should do... I'm sure the flags all over Fiji are at half-mast. That's where the family who claimed a tradition of fighting for the rights of the little man park their billions. So much for the shrill cries of "the rich must pay their fair share" of taxation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I never said he was bad.....i think my point is that in order to show respect one has to earn my respect...in this specific case I have never had much respect for him while he lived...sure he gave his time to the country and certainly got things done. I just don't think people are beyond reproach....even in death....he was guilty as sin in my mind yesterday, and he is guilty as sin, in my mind today....I am sad that he died at such an early age...i don't wish death on anyone...except a painful one for the PAN-AM bomber that was just released(but that is another topic). Be forewarned...when Gary Condit dies(hopefully not anytime soon), I will be as vocal about Chandra Levy as I am about Senator Kennedy....I could have picked a republican example, but this one was the first to come to my mind... Ok, so he is so bad because he supported bills that you did not like. That bastard!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Usually, when a person wakes up in the morning, they don't make the decision that "Today, I will be a hero." or "Today, I will be a coward." That is an innate trait, that you either have or you don't. So when someone tries to justify to me that TK escaped the situation (Chappaquiddick incident) , because he panicked and it was instinctive or reflexive, I agree with that. I also agree that many people would of done the same thing. But, I also believe that there are lots of cowards out there, and for me, that was an action of a timid, spineless coward. So yes, he made a mistake by drinking and driving, which is a conscience decision, and no, he didn't intentionally kill her, that was a stroke of bad luck for his wreckless actions, but he did make a conscience, cowardly decision in leaving that girl drown. Also, you would of thought that he would of learned from his mistake, and he continuously with conscience kept doing what he did that got him in trouble. Couple that with the fact that the only punishment he received was barely a slap on the wrist, well, let's just put it this way, there is a justifiable reason for many people to not feel loads of compassion for this person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 let me clarify...yes I am saying he was bad...but not because he and I are on opposite political sides....I think he is bad because of his 'alleged' extra-cirricular activities... I never said he was bad.....i think my point is that in order to show respect one has to earn my respect...in this specific case I have never had much respect for him while he lived...sure he gave his time to the country and certainly got things done. I just don't think people are beyond reproach....even in death....he was guilty as sin in my mind yesterday, and he is guilty as sin, in my mind today....I am sad that he died at such an early age...i don't wish death on anyone...except a painful one for the PAN-AM bomber that was just released(but that is another topic). Be forewarned...when Gary Condit dies(hopefully not anytime soon), I will be as vocal about Chandra Levy as I am about Senator Kennedy....I could have picked a republican example, but this one was the first to come to my mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Usually, when a person wakes up in the morning, they don't make the decision that "Today, I will be a hero." or "Today, I will be a coward." That is an innate trait, that you either have or you don't. So when someone tries to justify to me that TK escaped the situation (Chappaquiddick incident) , because he panicked and it was instinctive or reflexive, I agree with that. I also agree that many people would of done the same thing. But, I also believe that there are lots of cowards out there, and for me, that was an action of a timid, spineless coward. So yes, he made a mistake by drinking and driving, which is a conscience decision, and no, he didn't intentionally kill her, that was a stroke of bad luck for his wreckless actions, but he did make a conscience, cowardly decision in leaving that girl drown. Also, you would of thought that he would of learned from his mistake, and he continuously with conscience kept doing what he did that got him in trouble. Couple that with the fact that the only punishment he received was barely a slap on the wrist, well, let's just put it this way, there is a justifiable reason for many people to not feel loads of compassion for this person. Anyone other than a Kennedy would have been charged with manslaughter. I'll remember TK for killing someone, just like everyone will remember O.J. for killing two people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Anyone other than a Kennedy would have been charged with manslaughter. I'll remember TK for killing someone, just like everyone will remember O.J. for killing two people. TK = Allegedly. sure he gave his time to the country and certainly got things done. Be forewarned...when Gary Condit dies(hopefully not anytime soon), I will be as vocal about Chandra Levy as I am about Senator Kennedy....I could have picked a republican example, but this one was the first to come to my mind... Condit found to be not involved with Chandra Levy and a grand jury indicted the man suspected of killing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Lieutenant Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Here's someone else that died before her time... Remembering Mary Jo Sounds like collateral damage to me. Maybe Kennedy got some bad intelligence that there was a stash of WMD's at the bottom of the lake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 TK = Allegedly. And O.J. was never convicted, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I still don't buy it....but that's just me Condit found to be not involved with Chandra Levy and a grand jury indicted the man suspected of killing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I wonder what Mary Jo Kopechne's saying to him right now... "Hey, Teddy! Can you hear me all the way down there?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Hey Teddy, RIP, and congrats on cheating death so many times over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 "Hey, Teddy! Can you hear me all the way down there?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 All politics aside, good riddance to a despicable human being who should have died 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 When I pick up my torch and say things out of place or respect, can somebody remind everyone of this thread. Seems that the same posters that get their panties in a bunch when somebody pisses on the grave of their hero are doing the same thing in this thread. Actually, I think it is great that people speak their mind when somebody dies... Good or bad... To me that is what death should be all about. No over glorified ball washing. Now on to Teddy. The only one that his father really couldn't keep bailing out. Of the boys, the longest to live too! Strange isn't it? RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 All politics aside, good riddance to a despicable human being who should have died 30 years ago. Thanks Mrs. Kennedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 All politics aside, good riddance to a despicable human being who should have died 30 years ago. Takes one to know one? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 WTF does she have to do anything with the discussion at hand.....why pick Laura Bush...why not pick Joe Blow from Idaho who also was involved in a car accident....oh, is it because of her political affiliations?????? He 'allegedly' drove drunk and a passenger in his car was found dead the next day...probably shortly after he decided to report the accident.....'allegedly' 10 or more hours after it happened.....he killed Mary Jo Kopechne....although like I keep asking people....will you be paying respect to OJ when his time is up? after all, he was found not guilty in a court of law...so its not like he killed anyone I don't know but one could think that going through a stop sign in broad daylight and just happening to kill an ex-boyfriend is a little more mens rea than drunk driving off a tricky bridge at night and not being able to rescue a passenger in a back seat. But hey, we can all have our opinions. As I said, I'd give them both the benefit of the doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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