Lv-Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 As I recall a few bills games got blacked out in 06. Pats have sold out every year since 93 Yeah blacked out for a team that sucks but yet still outdrew 75% of the league even with blackouts. This in a terribly small market, and depressed area. And still with a large capacity despite a small city. A Buffalo Bills blackout, when it rarely happens, means that 67,000 people still went to the game, most of the time, in brutal weather. Circa Bill Parcells however, the true fanship from Pats fans showed. Anyone can be a fan when the Pats have had success that they've had recently. Where was everyone in that huge market before they were good every year? Talk about bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yeah, but you know what......that doesn't really sound any different than Pittsburgh. It's all bridges and tunnels, and nobody stays aways from any of their sports teams really. I hear what you are saying though. Living in Pittsburgh I would say that the traffic here is very light. Even on gamedays. People take Public transportation (subway system/bus) Also since the stadium is right next to the city a lot of people drive in to the city and park there and walk over to the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Living in Pittsburgh I would say that the traffic here is very light. Even on gamedays. People take Public transportation (subway system/bus) Also since the stadium is right next to the city a lot of people drive in to the city and park there and walk over to the stadium. If you are leaving Pittsburgh through the Squirrel Hill tunnels, traffic is awful. It's lined up for miles every day trying to get through there. Same goes for coming into the city during any rush hour, sporting event, or concert. I don't think I've ever been to any kind of event or work downtown without sitting in monster traffic at the Squirrel Hill tunnels. But other than that, yeah, traffic isn't all that bad. However, that part of the parkway is unfortunately one of only a few major ways into the city. Hell, a Pirate game with 10,000 fans jams up the Squirrel Hill tunnels for some reason. Pens no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 If you are leaving Pittsburgh through the Squirrel Hill tunnels, traffic is awful. It's lined up for miles every day trying to get through there. Same goes for coming into the city during any rush hour, sporting event, or concert. I don't think I've ever been to any kind of event or work downtown without sitting in monster traffic at the Squirrel Hill tunnels. But other than that, yeah, traffic isn't all that bad. However, that part of the parkway is unfortunately one of only a few major ways into the city. Hell, a Pirate game with 10,000 fans jams up the Squirrel Hill tunnels for some reason. Pens no different. True the tunnels are a nightmare. If you are lucky you can use your GPS to try to navigate around them. there are some great "shortcuts" As for why the traffic seems to slow down, it's anyones guess. I live in the south hills and its 10 minutes in 10 minutes out. They have 2 tunnels to the south. neither are to bad usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Cold Bruschi Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yeah blacked out for a team that sucks but yet still outdrew 75% of the league even with blackouts. This in a terribly small market, and depressed area. And still with a large capacity despite a small city. A Buffalo Bills blackout, when it rarely happens, means that 67,000 people still went to the game, most of the time, in brutal weather. Circa Bill Parcells however, the true fanship from Pats fans showed. Anyone can be a fan when the Pats have had success that they've had recently. Where was everyone in that huge market before they were good every year? Talk about bandwagon. In my case, in the womb, crapping diapers, and preschool, respectively. And no thats not what it means. If it was only 5,000 seats that didn't sell they'd just canvas it. It would have to be like 10, 15, 20k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
707BillsFan Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I have lived in the Bay Area for 20 years, and I can see the Oakland skyline from my desk as I type this, from my house across the bay. I feel like I should defend Oakland somewhat, just as I do for Buffalo when people here (including people from Oakland) bash Buffalo. You're right that Oakland has become a crappy sports town, but I think the people of Oakland are not on the list of reasons why. It's the ownership of the teams that have created the laughing-stocks that we see today. Oakland was a freakin' football mecca in the Madden era (Madden the coach, not Madden the video game), but Al Davis got greedy and moved the team to LA with dreams of becoming the most valuable sports franchise in America. That decision ripped the heart out of the fan base, so when Al's LA dreams didn't pan out and he brought the team back to Oakland, much of the fan base never re-embraced the team. This was compoundd by the string of bad and bizarre ownership decisions made by crazy Al, which, except for a couple good years under Gruden, has left the Raiders with one of the worst cumulative winning percentages of the past decade+. Oakland was also a baseball mecca in the 70s, with ridiculously good and successful teams led by Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, et al. But ownership changes for that franchise led to the past decade+ of "money ball" (spawning the best-selling book and maybe-soon-to-be-movie), which is all about underpaying and looking for raw talent. They've had some success with this approach, but it's ultimately a big F-you to the fan base, who are frustrated with grooming good players who change teams as soon as they hit their peak. Loyalty is impossible in money ball. Oddly, Al Davis has also contributed to the decline of the A's franchise. As an enticement to bring the Raiders back to Oakland, the Coliseum owners agreed to renovate the stadium to make it more football-friendly. This resulted in basically destroying the Coliseum as a good home for baseball, by replacing the awesome center-field area with a monstrosity of grandstand seating for football. A lot of casual A's fans like me decided that their baseball dollars are better spent across the Bay at AT&T Park, which is one of the best baseball stadiums on the planet. Attendance dropped and never recovered. The one team which IMHO is an exception to the crappy-sports-city aspect of Oakland is the Warriors. While they've been near the bottom of the league for a long time, with the exception of a couple years with Baron Davis at the point, the games are actually great entertainment and the team sells out almost all of its games. The run-and-gun offense plus non-existent defense actually makes for a great fan experience with teams like the Lakers, Jazz, Rockets, Mavs, etc making frequent visits. Last year the Warriors were the youngest team in the league and also the highest-scorig team in the league. I go to 5 or 10 Warriors games every season and have no intention of stopping. The place gets loud and boisterous but is still fan-friendly enough for my young kids. Since the OP wanted somebody to tell him of this place they call Oakland, there's my two cents. Great reply. Regarding the A's: As an A's fan...their ownership hasn't endeared themselves to the city either. Lew Wolfe in his search for a new home has all but ruled out Oakland as an option, looking at first Fremont...now San Jose. That and the fact we keep dealing away our talent grows old after a while. Doesn't stop me from attending games. Oakland is a still closer than Fremont and San Jose. The Warriors...the arena still sells out each and every game (despite being a losing franchise). Gotta be some of the best crowds (noise wise) in the NBA. Warriors will turn it around. We Oakland fans are a passionate bunch (speaking for A's and Warriors) and just because we're from CA doesn't mean otherwise. We just have other outlets year around, especially here in the Bay Area. When it comes to the NFL, I'm a big Bills fan. Most Sundays in the fall/winter, you'll find me glued somewhere trying to find out what's happening w/ my Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 It has nothing to do with how successful the franchise has been in the past. They don't sellout regular season home games, AND this preseason game looked like a high school football game in terms of fannies in the seats. Let me put it to you this way......their preseason game last night, looked like games in Foxboro before all of the fair weathered Pats fans jumped on the bandwagon after Parcells took over. Remember when nobody went to games at Sullivan stadium in NE? We all do! Yup. Raiders have had at least two regular-season games blacked out in each of the last four seasons. And with coaches already throwing punches at each other in training camp, expect this year to add to that streak. Pats: 17,635 season-ticket holders in 1991, per their weekly game releases. Despite listing the 1996-99 games vs. Buffalo as sellouts, drew fewer than 60,000 to each one -- 55,014 to see a playoff-bound Bills team with hometown fave Doug Flutie in '99. Awe-inspiring loyalty. Fearless forecast: the Pats' sellout streak ends the season after Brady retires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yeah blacked out for a team that sucks but yet still outdrew 75% of the league even with blackouts. This in a terribly small market, and depressed area. And still with a large capacity despite a small city. A Buffalo Bills blackout, when it rarely happens, means that 67,000 people still went to the game, most of the time, in brutal weather. Circa Bill Parcells however, the true fanship from Pats fans showed. Anyone can be a fan when the Pats have had success that they've had recently. Where was everyone in that huge market before they were good every year? Talk about bandwagon. Every team has some front runner fans. When the Pats were doing well in the mid 80's (including SB appearance), I bet they were selling out their stadium. At the same time, the Bills were awful and were not selling out. Two out Parcells first three years were losers, yet they sold out. The Bills during the Williams years did poorly and did not sell out the season. Menwhile the Pats sold out through the Pete Carroll years (after Parcells bolted and before BB/Brady). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Every team has some front runner fans. When the Pats were doing well in the mid 80's (including SB appearance), I bet they were selling out their stadium. At the same time, the Bills were awful and were not selling out. Two out Parcells first three years were losers, yet they sold out. The Bills during the Williams years did poorly and did not sell out the season. Menwhile the Pats sold out through the Pete Carroll years (after Parcells bolted and before BB/Brady). Actually, the Pats only drew 60K for the Bills' visit ONCE during the entire decade of the 1980s -- you guessed it, 1986, the year AFTER their Super Bowl season. 1985, the year they actually won the AFC championship? 40,462. More fun with numbers: The average NFL regular-season attendance total in 2008 was 66,625. (Source: 2009 Record and Fact Book.) Bills' average home attendance, for the ninth consecutive playoff-free season, and including the game in the smaller Rogers Centre: 68,996. (Source: 2009 Bills media guide.) Bills were blacked out a couple of times in Williams' first year, 2001, yet still averaged 63,092 for those home games. His other two seasons here: 2002: 68,463 2003: 73,015 One more thought: not counting the 1987 strike season, the Bills have sold more than 500,000 tickets at home (which works out to a 62,500-per-game average) in every year since 1985. So why do most people outside Buffalo seem to think the team has trouble selling tickets? (See Tim Graham's blog post regarding KC Joyner's latest study for an example.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Buffalo sells out its pre-season games. The team hasn't made the playoffs in ten years, and we still pack the Ralph. For pre-season. Yet there are always nagging rumours about the Bills leaving Buffalo. It's just not right Maybe it's because we're so sensitive to any negative national news about the Bills and Buffalo in general. Or it could be that most "reporters" either in traditional news organizations or on the internet are generally lazy and don't really take the time to research their work. I think it's a little of both. I also think Ralph is a target for a lot of age bias, which is interesting because this country's population is getting older ever year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF88Bills Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 i live an hour away...used to live very close--in oakland. crappy facility. very rabid fans. however,in addition to the actual facility being crappy...3/4 of thei fan base has to go over bridges or thru tunnels just to get down to the ghetto to see them.put a facility in a reasonable place and youd get the usual amount of california support for the team....ohhh..and yeah if the teams would actually contend..its been awhile although of course much more recent than the Bills. I have to go over one bridge and thru a tunnel to get there...its a LONG hour.Aint like living in Buffalo where everything is 20 minutes away by freeway. There are tolls everywhere in the bay area too....and it's not easy in easy out like the Buffalo interstate system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I's a combination of things. The highway next to the stadium, I-880, is a almost a parking lot at morning and afternoon rush hours. Monday night games start here at 6 PM.- Gridlock. The parking area is a lot less than the Ralph. The BART is right next to the stadium, but only so many people can come on it (the way I go to the Bills games there). The neighborhood near the stadium is BAD, worse than the one that was near the Rockpile. Then Davis is old and senile and meddles in the running of the team. He had Mt. Davis built when he came back and did the PSL fiasco. The Bills fans are much more rabid than Raiders and 49er fans. I moved here during the Niner's last SB season. I had my windows open to hear the cheering when they won. Not a sound outside. Buffalo streets were a ghost town during SBs and even regular season games. Not so in the Bay Area. The Raiders usually only sell out the Bronco or Chiefs games or Sunday/Monday night games. The A's get good players and then let them go because of $. But they keep Eric Chavez, who hasn't played a full season in years due to injury. Before they tarped off the top deck for baseball, I used to go to games on Wednesday evenings. A $3 BART ride, $2 tickets in the upper deck and $1 hot dogs. A great time. See this thread for another reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Cold Bruschi Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Not to mention, the Bills have the cheapest tickets in the nfl and the pats have the most expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Actually, the Pats only drew 60K for the Bills' visit ONCE during the entire decade of the 1980s -- you guessed it, 1986, the year AFTER their Super Bowl season. 1985, the year they actually won the AFC championship? 40,462. More fun with numbers: The average NFL regular-season attendance total in 2008 was 66,625. (Source: 2009 Record and Fact Book.) Bills' average home attendance, for the ninth consecutive playoff-free season, and including the game in the smaller Rogers Centre: 68,996. (Source: 2009 Bills media guide.) Bills were blacked out a couple of times in Williams' first year, 2001, yet still averaged 63,092 for those home games. His other two seasons here: 2002: 68,463 2003: 73,015 One more thought: not counting the 1987 strike season, the Bills have sold more than 500,000 tickets at home (which works out to a 62,500-per-game average) in every year since 1985. So why do most people outside Buffalo seem to think the team has trouble selling tickets? (See Tim Graham's blog post regarding KC Joyner's latest study for an example.) Was that the same Bills media guide that listed Peters at 340 lbs? Or used to list House Ballard at .....325??!! You ever been next to Howard? The Joyner article data is interesting. He uses Milwaukee for Green Bay's populace yet he does not include Rochester in Buffalo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Every team has some front runner fans. When the Pats were doing well in the mid 80's (including SB appearance), I bet they were selling out their stadium. At the same time, the Bills were awful and were not selling out. Two out Parcells first three years were losers, yet they sold out. The Bills during the Williams years did poorly and did not sell out the season. Menwhile the Pats sold out through the Pete Carroll years (after Parcells bolted and before BB/Brady). At the time in the mid 80's, the Bills were not selling out an 80,000 seat stadium. Without tarps covering seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Every team has some front runner fans. When the Pats were doing well in the mid 80's (including SB appearance), I bet they were selling out their stadium. At the same time, the Bills were awful and were not selling out. Two out Parcells first three years were losers, yet they sold out. The Bills during the Williams years did poorly and did not sell out the season. Menwhile the Pats sold out through the Pete Carroll years (after Parcells bolted and before BB/Brady). Keep telling yourself you're not a pats* troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 But also, its California so their football fans are all fair weather anyway. Kinda like Boston, huh? I notice you idiots all getting ready to jump back on the Bruins bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Keep telling yourself you're not a pats* troll. Actually, you are the one who needs to reinforce your misconception, chief---you certainly need to believe I'm a pats fan, for the truth would collapse your house of cards. This much is clear. Keep loading up that pop gun, killer. I understand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Great reply. Regarding the A's: As an A's fan...their ownership hasn't endeared themselves to the city either. Lew Wolfe in his search for a new home has all but ruled out Oakland as an option, looking at first Fremont...now San Jose. That and the fact we keep dealing away our talent grows old after a while. Doesn't stop me from attending games. Oakland is a still closer than Fremont and San Jose. The Warriors...the arena still sells out each and every game (despite being a losing franchise). Gotta be some of the best crowds (noise wise) in the NBA. Warriors will turn it around. We Oakland fans are a passionate bunch (speaking for A's and Warriors) and just because we're from CA doesn't mean otherwise. We just have other outlets year around, especially here in the Bay Area. When it comes to the NFL, I'm a big Bills fan. Most Sundays in the fall/winter, you'll find me glued somewhere trying to find out what's happening w/ my Bills. Interesting stuff. When you look at the As, they are actually one of the more successful teams in baseball once they shifted to divisional play in 1969. They dominated the early-mid 70s, had a very strong team in the early 1980s under Billy Martin, had a powerhouse team in the late 1980s/early 1990s, and were excellent once again in the early 2000s. From 1971-2006, they made 15 playoff appearances (14 division titles) and six world series appearances (4-2). The Red Sox have made 10 playoff appearances (4 division titles) from 1971-2006, although they've tacked on two more appearances in the past two years. They're 2-2 in the World Series. The Dodgers appeared 11 times in that time frame, and are 2-3 in the World Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Was that the same Bills media guide that listed Peters at 340 lbs? Or used to list House Ballard at .....325??!! You ever been next to Howard? The Joyner article data is interesting. He uses Milwaukee for Green Bay's populace yet he does not include Rochester in Buffalo's. Yeah, because player weights and ticket sales are comparable, even though one has to be reported to the league (for purposes of divvying up gate revenue) and the other doesn't. Thanks for wasting 10 seconds of my reading time with that response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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