K-9 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Let's use a concrete example, shall we? America needs oil for a functioning economy. Iran decides to close the Straits of Hormuz because it's in its "best interests." Should America be expected to not intervene because it's unpopular with Canadians, Euros or whoever else? And for that matter, should America have to ask permission to act in the interest of her national security? I don't think so. That would be like your neighbor taking a leak on your lawn. You tell him to stop, but he comes back the next day. You tell him to stop again. Still he comes back and does it again. Would you walk up the street and ask neighbor "c" if it's OK to smack him around? No! You're going to knock him out. That's a poor concrete example, though in that the Canadian and Europeon, hell, the ENTIRE world's economy is based on oil consumption. Not only would America be expected to intervene we would be asked to by everyone. Shades of Hussein's threat when he invaded Kuwait. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Wow, you're an incisive observer of human characteristics. I know, I'm a master of the obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 but that's the box you've put yourself in. by saying you feel America has "a right and duty to lean on states that don't work with" you also requires a certain world view mentality and responsibility that contradicts your point completely.you have argued my case better than i could because you're trying to have both ways: 1) what America does for America shouldn't be questioned. 2) what America does to others shouldn't be questioned. i'm not sure how that can be resolved, and a reason why some international policies have failed due to blind arrogance, and questioned for that same reason. jw Not bad for a fellow sitting at a bar drinking whiskey. You have been at this for 12 straight hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Let's use a concrete example, shall we? America needs oil for a functioning economy. Iran decides to close the Straits of Hormuz because it's in its "best interests." Should America be expected to not intervene because it's unpopular with Canadians, Euros or whoever else? And for that matter, should America have to ask permission to act in the interest of her national security? I don't think so. That would be like your neighbor taking a leak on your lawn. You tell him to stop, but he comes back the next day. You tell him to stop again. Still he comes back and does it again. Would you walk up the street and ask neighbor "c" if it's OK to smack him around? No! You're going to knock him out. but that's not your argument, which seems closer to you punching out someone for peeing on your neighbor's lawn, even though you don't know whether your neighbor gave the leaker in question permission or not. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Not bad for a fellow sitting at a bar drinking whiskey. You have been at this for 12 straight hours. i am a professional, you know. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 i am a professional, you know. jw I hear you write too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 I hear you write too... lies, all damn lies! jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 but that's not your argument, which seems closer to you punching out someone for peeing on your neighbor's lawn, even though you don't know whether your neighbor gave the leaker in question permission or not. jw Excuse me? Closing the Straits of Hormuz would be a direct threat to the US's national security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Excuse me? Closing the Straits of Hormuz would be a direct threat to the US's national security. Let me rephrase jw's post for you: Your analogy sucked. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Let me rephrase jw's post for you: Your analogy sucked. A lot. What? I thought the lawn-peeing analogy was a good one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 What? I thought the lawn-peeing analogy was a good one... No, it really wasn't. Peeing in the community pool may have been better. "Better" being a matter of degree...still would have sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 No, it really wasn't. Peeing in the community pool may have been better. "Better" being a matter of degree...still would have sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 What? I thought the lawn-peeing analogy was a good one... You really can't use an analogy on Tom.....I guess he put all his efforts into the math portion of the SAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 If it's any consolation, jw's counter wasn't all there either. The Strait of Hormuz isn't private property, it's recognized as an international waterway, albiet narrow and crowded. Neither your nor jw's analogy came close to taking that into account. If Iran were to close the strait, it wouldn't be directed at the US or a direct threat to US national security, it would be an international incident and an indirect threat to us. But there's no issue of US soverignty that you and jw seem to be arguing. The real question that you and jw are tap-dancing around is: does the US have the unchallenged moral right to enforce international law? I would argue that we did 20 years ago (given that we enforced the rights of navigation unilaterally in the Gulf of Sidra, and as part of a multinational force during the Iran-Iraq war.) I would also argue that it's in the world's best interests that we continue to do so. But I personally would not argue that the rest of the world would agree with me (Japan probably would, though), or that gives us an unfettered moral right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 You really can't use an analogy on Tom.....I guess he put all his efforts into the math portion of the SAT. No, YOU really can't use them...your analogies are an order of magnitude worse than Joe's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Its douchesacK.....you !@#$turd. Yo are so !@#$ing dumb.....youre in BF territory. I questioned patriotism? WHERE? And dont worry, you sheep !@#$ing hick. Keep each other off about how "We won!! we won!! while Your hero's poll numbers go lower....and lower...and lower. More than ONE race for a seat or governoirship this coming November is already going Right. Looks like somebody needs a Miltown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Its douchesacK.....you !@#$turd. Yo are so !@#$ing dumb.....youre in BF territory. I questioned patriotism? WHERE? And dont worry, you sheep !@#$ing hick. Keep each other off about how "We won!! we won!! while Your hero's poll numbers go lower....and lower...and lower. More than ONE race for a seat or governoirship this coming November is already going Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Drane Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Sorry Darin and Tom. Im mad at myself for letting that monkey even push my buttons. Its like letting the bum who hangs in the convenience store aggrivate you becuase he smells. Bad analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Its douchesacK.....you !@#$turd. Yo are so !@#$ing dumb.....youre in BF territory. I questioned patriotism? WHERE? And dont worry, you sheep !@#$ing hick. Keep each other off about how "We won!! we won!! while Your hero's poll numbers go lower....and lower...and lower. More than ONE race for a seat or governoirship this coming November is already going Right. Nice try but I would never !@#$ you, sheep. And I didn't even vote for Obama bright eyes, because unlike you I don't have political masters. Now give me some spare change or I'll keep talking to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 They should trust us even less for electing a know-nothing empty suit socialist organizer from the second most corrupt political environment in the nation (the first being New Jersey). you're right, texas, mississippi and louisiana are far superior states to draw from. c'mon. you make it too freakin easy. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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