Macs are a gigantic ripoff...

[John Adams]

You pay for the brand. You know how FEW ODMs there are? Not even a handful - they make computers for all the major OEMs. (Same with iPhone etc). Engineering at the EOM makes a difference but...the ODM doesn't run one "junk" line for one vendor and one "good" one for Apple. It just doesn't work that way.

 

If people are happy with their Macs - great. But you shouldn't really kid yourselves about "superior" technology. It's the same. The combination of features, a few cutesy touches, plus the advertising, is the difference.

 

If by features, you mean hardware, you and Fingon are right. The products are nearly identical. But when you include the O/S, OSX is far superior to Windows. I am 5 years and counting, and still waiting for my first crash/lockup that requires a reboot. I never turn it off (except when a hardware upgrade requires it).

 

I use Windows at work all day. There is no comparison between the OSes. Mac is far better in performance, appearance, and features. There's a reason that if people have the scratch, they rarely give up Mac for Windows willingly.

 

Windows advantages: gaming (not an issue for me) and some specific software that is Windows only.

Mac: It works. All the time. And it's better.

[Peevo]

It sounds like you need to learn to use a computer. I've had 1 or 2 viruses on my computers in over 15 years.

 

from gizmodo:

 

http://gizmodo.com/5285452/os-x-snow-leopa...final-countdown

 

 

You get the EXACT SAME hardware that you get in a PC. Don't give me the crap about "superior craftsmanship".

 

 

Ok, fine. I'm not a computer genius. I don't build computers, nor will I ever. But I do know how to use one efficiently. I operate Logic, Reason, and Ableton Live on a daily basis. These are pretty advanced music editing programs. I was just saying that I own a Mac and love it, while on a PC here at work I couldn't have had more issues. I even said originally that Macs ARE expensive and probably not worth the investment unless you do something worth its computing power. Just trying to be fair, then I get patronized for my opinion? Did I take a personal attack on PC users or something? I realize getting annoyed on a message board is slightly ridiculous, but come on man, I was just contributing to the conversation.

[plenzmd1]

Just an observation, and not sure if it is relevant...but seems this thread mirrors the current Microsoft commercials with people buying PCs. Marketing at its best?

 

BTW, I am such a dolt on any computer, no way I could build my own, have only ever used PC's. Had an Apple for the kids, but it recently had some problems and the cost to fix it was going to be about $800 + cost of upgrading the OS. I never learned to use the thing..course I am a lzy sum B word and never felt like sitting down and reading a manual or anything.

 

So, we bought a PC, and my reasoning was kids work on Apples at school, so learning a PC would be a the best thing for them

[pBills]

I have been a Mac person for years now. Just great computers. Never have crashes, never have viruses, etc., etc. I even had employers present and past buy me a Mac for work. Most of the time I was the only person in the building with a Mac, and I am also the only one without computer problems.

 

Granted they are expensive, but they are SOOOOOOO worth the cash.

 

My wife also laughs at me when those PC commercials come on. I yell at the TV. :-)

[Alaska Darin]

I've had PCs for as long as they've been around. I've not had more than a handful of problems ever.

 

While I hate Windows Vista with every fiber of my being, I've not had any real problems with it. It's a clunky piece of crap but it keeps alive the Microsoft streak of "every other OS we release will totally piss you off".

 

Macs definitely rock when it comes to video editing/etc but I don't do any of that so I'd never spend the extra coin. If you buy a PC, make sure you buy good virus/malware/spyware protection, a good cleaner program like Window Washer, turn off automatic updates (do them manually) and stay away from Internet Explorer. If you do those things and aren't an abject moron, it's quite likely you won't have any of the nightmare issues that "supposedly" plague Windows PCs.

[kegtapr]

I've never figured out why anyone gives two craps about what other people buy. Fanboys suck.

[yall]

If by features, you mean hardware, you and Fingon are right. The products are nearly identical. But when you include the O/S, OSX is far superior to Windows. I am 5 years and counting, and still waiting for my first crash/lockup that requires a reboot. I never turn it off (except when a hardware upgrade requires it).

 

I use Windows at work all day. There is no comparison between the OSes. Mac is far better in performance, appearance, and features. There's a reason that if people have the scratch, they rarely give up Mac for Windows willingly.

 

Windows advantages: gaming (not an issue for me) and some specific software that is Windows only.

Mac: It works. All the time. And it's better.

 

It's a matter of taste. Mac's do crash. In fact my Macbook crashes more than my XP, Vista, or Win7 RC machines.

 

I'd love to see someone produce evidence (other than anecdotal) which shows PC's are somehow inferior to Mac's in terms of stability. As a user of both, I have the Mac exclusively because of Garage band and Final cut. As a computer its no better.

 

And if you like gaming, it's shite.

[John Adams]

It's a matter of taste. Mac's do crash. In fact my Macbook crashes more than my XP, Vista, or Win7 RC machines.

 

I'd love to see someone produce evidence (other than anecdotal) which shows PC's are somehow inferior to Mac's in terms of stability. As a user of both, I have the Mac exclusively because of Garage band and Final cut. As a computer its no better.

 

And if you like gaming, it's shite.

 

Of course I have only anecdotal evidence. I have not compiled studies and published a paper comparing the two.

 

I have a lifetime of working in Windows (including every day). I have 5 or so years the MAc world. In my Mac experience, I get no crashes. I have had Safari (web browser for those unfamiliar) freeze 3-4 times but that's the only app I've ever crashed. And the OS has never crashed.

 

Windows and Windows apps crash more than I can even count and I don't use anything out of the ordinary (Outlook, Office apps).

[Fan in Chicago]

I have come to the conclusion that PCs owned by Mac lovers crash much more frequently than those owned by others.

 

I have only owned PCs and cannot relate to all these stories about the OS 'crashing frequently'. I use Windows XP on my office computer, Vista on our main home computer and XP on our second home computer. Besides the fact that I hate Vista for its complexity, I have one of the three computers crash maybe once every 6 months. That is not too bad and certainly does not justify the price difference to go to a Mac. Heck, if my PCs crashed anywhere close to once a week, I would be in the market for an alternative. For that matter, most consumers might.

 

The instability and clunkiness plus the customizability of Firefox led me away from IE and I have been very happy using Firefox on a PC.

 

The PC ads are spot on - a majority of home consumers can get a PC with the features they need for far less than the cost of a Mac. I considered it during my last purchase and a full fledged desktop with LCD monitor was less expensive than a frigging Mac Mini.

 

Beat up Microsoft for everything from reducing competition to slow innovation but one thing you cannot take away from them is their ability to bring the PC to the average home user and proliferate the computer as a necessary device.

[Corp000085]

I have come to the conclusion that PCs owned by Mac lovers crash much more frequently than those owned by others.

 

 

I don't argue against the fact that XP is solid as a rock, and once customized and tweaked, so is Vista. However, you cannot deny the speed and reliability of Apple OS X. It's not a matter of the apple hardware being any better or worse than pc hardware... It's the same damn thing.

 

The advantages I see in my macbook pro vs. my wife's dell laptop are as follows (this is nothing about the os's):

 

1) the case... a single sheet of aluminum PWNS clunky plastic parts, no matter how you argue.

2) the keyboard... the keys are big, responsive, they are spaced appropriately for dainty fingers as well as sausage hands, and they have a cool fiber optic lighting (although this doesn't enhance the feature set at all.)

3) the monitor and minidisplay port... The monitor is LED rather than LCD, so its bright and vibrant like a plasma while using a fraction of the energy. The screen is a pane of glass. Very durable, easy to clean, and if you're not a glossy screen lover, the colors pop through any glare. As for the minidisplay port, its just a miniature dvi, about half the size of a usb plug.

4) the touchpad. This thing is a glass multi touch pad. It's the single greatest feature of the mac, IMHO.

 

 

The disadvantages:

 

1) price. This sucker was expensive

2) minidisplay port. Yeah, its listed as an advantage, but its only an advantage if you have an apple led cinema display monitor (which i have, and its the 2nd awesomest thing about this computer). While the plug is hot swappable, small, and digital, it is not universally standard YET. If HDMI doesn't become the pc/mac standard connection, minidisplay will. You can't really argue against a 1/4" square plug that is hot swappable.

3) lack of software support, namely games and blackberry. I have a BB and the pocketmac sync program absolutely blows. I sync ical with google calendar, and i have my google mail set up as IMAP with mail.app. Address book won't sync to the cloud though, so i must use my BB as an intermediary, and i hate it. Hopefully osx 10.6 will fully support address book to google contacts sync.

 

 

 

 

 

I also have a 256 gb SSD, but I won't really list that as an advantage, because they are available for pcs too. I have installed xp on the mac using boot camp (wikipedia that if you're not too knowledgeable on macs), and i will admit, xp ran a hell of a lot faster than it did on my old computer. In fact, it flew, and I second guessed myself a couple times on whether I should have just gone ahead and gotten a SSD for my old alienware laptop.

 

 

 

If you can get over the price aspect, it becomes clear that mac computers don't own pcs, and pcs don't own macs... The hardware is what it is... Macs are engineered entirely as a unit and are marketed as a whole, whereas, pcs have always been customizable and have been marketed as an integration of components. The real true advantage of macs over pcs is the operating system. I have not tried win 7 yet, so this is based on vista, xp, 98, etc... mac os simply blows microsoft windows out of the water, and always has since the 1980's. The niche programs for macs is awesome while the gaming support of windows is awesome, but in the end, osx rules because the mac os kernel (unix) > MS Windows kernel. I'm also looking forward to my $29 upgrade to Snow Leopard in early september... Price can't be beat on that one!

[yall]

Of course I have only anecdotal evidence. I have not compiled studies and published a paper comparing the two.

 

I have a lifetime of working in Windows (including every day). I have 5 or so years the MAc world. In my Mac experience, I get no crashes. I have had Safari (web browser for those unfamiliar) freeze 3-4 times but that's the only app I've ever crashed. And the OS has never crashed.

 

Windows and Windows apps crash more than I can even count and I don't use anything out of the ordinary (Outlook, Office apps).

 

Didn't mean to imply you specifically regarding the evidence. I merely wish there was some evidence to back this "notion" about PC's vs. Mac's with regard to stability (post-Win2k of course ).

 

It's a many fold issue. I've been working on Apple's since the IIE came out, and there was a time that the 2 platforms could not have been any more different. Even still, Apples would have their share of issues as did PC's.

 

As the PC became more popular, more pieces of software became available for the platform, and as the market expanded you had more 3rd party developers enter the market, which let to tons of buggy software. Apple was a lot better certifying software for their machines, in essence because they had to be (if you are gonna have less software it had better be good) and therefore the platform over time appeared to be more stable (I'm generilizing a lot here as I'm squeezing 25 years into a paragraph).

 

At this point the OS's offer different flavors as well as functionalities, but in essense they are both sufficient in terms of operability and reliability.

[Dan III]

$400 Hackintosh Netbook http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackinto...te-os-x-netbook

[GOBILLS78]

Guess I'm an idiot. A ridiculously happy idiot who will pay higher prices to avoid building my own computer.

[Chilly]

Didn't mean to imply you specifically regarding the evidence. I merely wish there was some evidence to back this "notion" about PC's vs. Mac's with regard to stability (post-Win2k of course ).

 

It's a many fold issue. I've been working on Apple's since the IIE came out, and there was a time that the 2 platforms could not have been any more different. Even still, Apples would have their share of issues as did PC's.

 

As the PC became more popular, more pieces of software became available for the platform, and as the market expanded you had more 3rd party developers enter the market, which let to tons of buggy software. Apple was a lot better certifying software for their machines, in essence because they had to be (if you are gonna have less software it had better be good) and therefore the platform over time appeared to be more stable (I'm generilizing a lot here as I'm squeezing 25 years into a paragraph).

 

At this point the OS's offer different flavors as well as functionalities, but in essense they are both sufficient in terms of operability and reliability.

 

Indeed.

 

The whole issue of blaming stability on an OS is somewhat of a bad concept. While the OS *is* a factor in it, its far, far from the only one: hardware stability, the software you are using, the way you have it configured, etc. will all play a role in the way the computer works. The idea that apple's use premium hardware is also silly, its no more premium than you'd get with any other major computer manufacturer.

 

You *do* pay a premium for apples because there isn't any competition for their OS because of the way they have it setup, its just something you know getting into it. I'd be interested in seeing how Apple would respond to a bundling lawsuit, same as what Microsoft had to do.

 

This whole idea of blaming Windows or OS X for stability at this point is futile. The OSes are solid enough stability-wise that its generally due to something interacting with the OS, either user or software-wise.

[DrDawkinstein]

yes, of course, if you are using the machine primarily for gaming then PCs are better in that:

1. more power for less cost

2. there are more games for PCs

 

but you are talking about a niche use too.

 

if you are talking about the "average joe" computer user, who is going to use it to surf the net, keep track of his family photos/video, finances, life in general, maybe do some work stuff on it... then it's a better investment to get a Mac.

you will have less problems, less crashes, less memory being drained on anti-virus software and clunky OSs.

 

ive recorded and edited full albums on my macbook that has under 1 gig of RAM in it. with out any crashing or hanging or slowing down.

 

the macbook pro that im on right now is 3 years old. i use it as my work and personal laptop. ive been on it probably an average of 12 hours a day, for the past 3 years. im not easy on it either. its never crashed and has only had one hardware problem. took it into the mac store and since i have the applecare they replaced it on the spot for free. havent had a problem since.

 

any of that would be IMPOSSIBLE with a much more powerful thinkpad or the like.

 

we're a technology company and we're completely Mac. when asked why, its an easy answer. the last thing i want to have to do at night is fix MY computer too. they just work.

[Dante]

Want to play games, buy a Wii. Want to do work, buy a Mac.

PC is the best gaming platform. Period. Although I do like my xbox for NHL09 and most sports games(except for Madden. Much better on PC)

As for macs, I guess if it does the job for you no problem. Personally, Ive never had trouble getting work done (and gaming with my pc). Nice how you can constantly upgrade them if you want with lots of choices. Ive never really gotten the "ease of use" thing associated with macs. As I said, Windows has never been a problem with me to operate. Ive used Photoshop and Illustrator a lot on my pc without any issues at all. Don't understand why its so difficult for people but I guess it is.

I think the only beef I have with mac computers and I guess this goes for all Apple products, is the smug elitism that people seem to have that own their stuff. If you tell them you use something other than a Ipod to listen to music, or don't use a mac pro but a Dell. They feel a seemingly overwhelming need to tell you how wrong you are and how their ipod or computer is so much superior to yours. Don't get it. It's kinda annoying as well.

 

Also, we bought a Wii over a year ago and it collects dust. Again, a matter of choice. For me, when i want to play a game, the last thing I want to do is get up and exercise. If I want to play real golf I'll got out and actually golf with a real club. Not a wii motion thingy. If I want to play tennis I'll do the real thing.

[Fezmid]

While the OS *is* a factor in it, its far, far from the only one: hardware stability, the software you are using, the way you have it configured, etc. will all play a role in the way the computer works.

 

And bus ducts. Don't forget that a bad bus duct can bring down an entire data center!

[Chilly]

And bus ducts. Don't forget that a bad bus duct can bring down an entire data center!

 

Shut it you.

[Peevo]

PC is definitely better for gaming, no question. There's pros and cons to each. But once again, as people have reiterated, any sort of multimedia production, duplication, editing, etc is simply far and away better on Mac OS X.

 

Just for the record, cnet.com's review of the older, all aluminum Macbook Pros from last year actually has the graphical data to support how OS X runs more efficiently than Vista on similar hardware. http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macb...l?tag=mncol;lst go there and scroll down to the graphs about mid-page, there's 3 graphs on processing speeds. The Photoshop CS3 is the most obvious, with the Macbook nearly half the image processing time as a Dell equivalent.

 

This is actual empirical evidence by a reputable company, not some arbitrary blogger that has an agenda.

[The Dean]

PC is definitely better for gaming, no question. There's pros and cons to each. But once again, as people have reiterated, any sort of multimedia production, duplication, editing, etc is simply far and away better on Mac OS X.

 

 

I agree Mac has been the leader in the video and audio world. But I think the advantage of Mac is overstated, even here. Some of the top end recording editors have moved to PC over the past few years. (I'm not really sure why, perhaps it is due to the cost of the hardware.) For example, legendary sound engineer Elliot Scheiner (while preferring analog recording) likes the Nuendo digital system, and uses it on a PC. After having some previous issues with Pro Tools on a Mac, he says his PC with Nuendo has never crashed.

 

For many, it is what they are used to. So since many in the video and audio world have used Macs over the years, they tend to prefer that interface. For many who have used Windows for years, the Mac interface isn't more intuitive...it's just different.

 

I still think PC software is still slightly better for typical business applications: Word processing, spreadsheets, database management, etc. You certainly have many more software choices on the PC platform.

 

As a rule, I'm not crazy about most of the software from Mac or Microsoft. Almost all of it is bloated, and seems targeted to take over your machine.

 

In the end, they are both tools. While one may have a slight advantage over the other for specific tasks, it really comes down to what you prefer. If you buy a Mac, you pay a premium, but you know you aren't getting really cheap components you might find on a really low-end PC. But if you like PC, with a little bit of care, you can get a much better equipped high-quality computer than the Mac , for half the Mac's price.