StupidNation Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 But I have to say -- because I see so much of it in so many different places -- all the whining about the Patriots makes me sympathize with them.... As for the tiresome cheatriots talk, they went 18-1 without video help. If you recall, many believe they ran up the scores in 2007 as a response to the Jets turning them in. They proved they could win just fine without the tapes. Tim I disagree 100%. They cheated and tainted. That's it. They abused the system and potentially stole a SB from the Rams. One of the previous Cheatriots QBs stated they knew 70% of what was coming before the snap. The game is first about match-ups and 2nd on execution. Most of the guys in the NFL are adequate to execute sufficiently so match-ups are pivotal. Now comes the interesting part to me and no one seems to address it... Their winning came with an added bonus of vets who went there for less than face-value in the hopes of winning. Players wanted to play there when previously NE was never considered a great destination. You had guys wanting to be traded there and played for less in free agency. Because they stock-piled talent they could then trade down and get extra 1st rounders. There is a compounding effect to this that no one wants to address. My question would be would they have been 18-1 if Moss was playing under-value to play for them, and getting those extra picks? I say no, absolutely not. They are the team they are because their cheating had a compounding effect. I give credit to Brady as a QB, but would he be the "Tom Brady" without cheating? Don't know... I do know his supporting cast is pretty damn good right now because of the Patriots leveraging. Lastly, and I've only seen one reporter hit this openly, where are the penalties against the Patriots? They get a free pass all the time. I've seen some blatant holding on the O-line that the refs miss over and over again. I also, to this day, think that the 4th down play against the Ravens when they called the time-out after the play when the Pats didn't make it was awfully suspicious. The calls in that game were ridiculous, so bad it was obvious that the refs were told to have the undefeated season. They didn't use "tape" that season to get to 18-1, but the refs were in the tank for them. Go watch that Ravens game and their 12th man in the form of zebras. P.S The greatest joy I've ever had watching a game, and the Bills are my team, was watching the Patriots lose in the Superbowl. I do believe the refs called that game fairly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 They didn't use "tape" that season to get to 18-1, but the refs were in the tank for them. Go watch that Ravens game and their 12th man in the form of zebras. Bart Scott got a job as a ref midgame??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 May I add just one word? Let's think back for a moment to the days when the Bills were NFL GODS, the NE* Patriettes* were a laughing-stock, and all those ersatz 'fans' in NE* were still NY Giants fans... This will make everyone feel much better... Link - Classic Bills vs. Patriots Poor Raymond Berry - the Bills offensive machine was firing on all cylinders that day, as usual. Poor little Doug Flutie - he was wearing Bruce Smith all afternoon. Poor NE* - GOD, did they* ever suck for soooo long. Almost lost their* franchise* twice - once to St. Louis, then to Hartford. I think I remember mention of a possible move to Memphis back then as well. Now remember, no matter what tainted successes* the Cheatriettes* have been able to steal and cheat their way to "achieving"*, all things must pass - the Cheatriettes* will miss the playoffs again this season - 2nd consecutive year - on their* way back to obscurity, and all those freakin' NE* queers...er...uh...fans* that jumped on the bandwagon in 2001 will quickly and quietly fade back into oblivion. Meanwhile, our BuffTown Bills are quietly, methodically, purposefully building a roster that will serve the franchise well for years to come, on their way back to total NFL dominance... 19 and 0 baby!!! GO BILLSSS!!!! PosLUSZny!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 MattM ... No offense, but I'm not even remotely interested. I covered the Sabres for six years. I know all the conspiracy angles out there that the corporate sports world hates small-market Buffalo. Conspiracy theories are a crutch to carry on a loser's mentality. That's just my opinion. Three rules I have, especially when seated at the bar, I never talk religion, politics or conspiracy theories. As for Tim Donaghy, that was one ref. To claim a league-wide conspiracy is not remotely the same. Tim: A. That's why I also mentioned the Serie A (Italian soccer) referee scandal. For the lazy, here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Italian_football_scandal That involved large numbers of people, teams and refs and happened this decade in one of the world's most popular soccer leagues. It also left no doubt that matches in that league were fixed with the help of referees. The ignorant among us might argue that it's a different place, with a different culture (and I can say that so the un PC among us don't have to, as I've got a vowel at the end of my name, too), but with things like the Whitey Bulger mess and its long history of civic corruption, I'm not sure if Boston is too much better than southern Italy in that regard. B. As noted, Donaghy did try to implicate other refs, but to date the authorities have not believed him. Mr. WEO, AFCEastFan, et all, I'm still waiting on that close game you all lost in the 4th on a bad call that the rest of the world agreed was a bad call. (Crickets chirping into the night.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I also know what I see when I watch games (especially these days with the aid of a DVR) and again, I implore a Pats fan to give me just one example of them losing on a controversial call or non-call late in a game, 'cuz I've got a whole bunch in the other direction. Go back to your DVR'd copy of the Giants-Pats and count the holding noncalls as the refs just "let them play" and the typical non-nimble Eli Manning somehow manages to get away from the Pats swarming D long enough to throw the greatest pass/catch in SB history. So you see, the Commish gave it to BB right in the heiney at the exact time that would produce the most pain for the Pats. It was an awesome way for the League to punish them---let them go 18-0 and take away the SB in a most painful manner. The Commish is wise, stop your crying. Wait, your evidence is Jimmy Johnson and what he claims he heard others did 17 years ago, and what he believes is happening now, without naming names, any other teams being implicated, or anyone else corroborating his claims? That might work for mouth-breathers like Mr. WEO, but it's proof of nothing. Oh and Johnson and Belichick are fishing buddies, which speaks to his credibility. Actually, if you bothered to read the interview, he did name names: Obviously Dallas; Schottenheimer and Hatley from the Chiefs; and Howard Mudd, from the Chiefs to, interestingly, the Colts. Notice after a career of futility against the Pats for Manning and Slow Tony Dungy, including 2 playoff losses, the Colts, after trailing 21-6 at the half of the 2006 AFCG, come out of the lockeroom and suddenly rattle off 32 2nd half points to edge the PAts. Nothing suspicious there. Mudd's back with the Colts now. So you are now saying that JJ would willfully tarnish his own reputation and place the championships of his Dallas teams in question....because he is "fishing buddies" with another HC?? Wow. This is primo stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Bart Scott got a job as a ref midgame??? Interesting discussion. Sorry I missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Go back to your DVR'd copy of the Giants-Pats and count the holding noncalls as the refs just "let them play" and the typical non-nimble Eli Manning somehow manages to get away from the Pats swarming D long enough to throw the greatest pass/catch in SB history. So you see, the Commish gave it to BB right in the heiney at the exact time that would produce the most pain for the Pats. It was an awesome way for the League to punish them---let them go 18-0 and take away the SB in a most painful manner. The Commish is wise, stop your crying. Actually, if you bothered to read the interview, he did name names: Obviously Dallas; Schottenheimer and Hatley from the Chiefs; and Howard Mudd, from the Chiefs to, interestingly, the Colts. Notice after a career of futility against the Pats for Manning and Slow Tony Dungy, including 2 playoff losses, the Colts, after trailing 21-6 at the half of the 2006 AFCG, come out of the lockeroom and suddenly rattle off 32 2nd half points to edge the PAts. Nothing suspicious there. Mudd's back with the Colts now. So you are now saying that JJ would willfully tarnish his own reputation and place the championships of his Dallas teams in question....because he is "fishing buddies" with another HC?? Wow. This is primo stuff. No one outside of pissed off Pats fans think that was a blown call, especially compared to what the Pats' tackles have gotten away with over the years (Easterbrook had a funny column describing how the Pats tackles do just that with their opponents-tackle them to the turf--yet never get flagged). In addition, that play was in the middle of a swarming scrum of players--the refs had no good angle to view that play, IIRC (and I do RC, since unlike you, I'm sure, I've watched that last drive over and over and over since then!). That is incredibly unlike the Pats' gifts, many of which occurred right in front of one or more referees with unobstructed views of the action--like the Tuck Rule or my personal favorite, the AFCCG against the Colts. I had that one TIVOed as well and watched in amazement how a ref no more than ten feet away and looking right at them watched a Pats' DB just absolutely grab a fistful of Pollard's jersey at the shoulder from behind, so hard that Pollard's head snapped back. This happened twice on one drive without a flag. Again, back to your main point--what I want is an example of you guys getting shafted on a call that most fans outside of your immediate fanbase acknowledge was a bad call, again, like the many pro-Pats' calls over the years. Folks who have interest either way in the Pats acknowledge them as kings of the blatant officiating bias--don't believe me, go ask on other team's boards..... PS Actually, my all time favorite may be in the Bills-Pats first game in 2007, when on the play before the safety a Pats LB or DE was literally two feet into the Bills backfield when the ball was snapped and yet no call when he made the sack that put us into position to lose a safety. Again, I had this on TIVO (still do) and watched repeatedly as the ball was snapped in slow mo and the Pats defender had by then jumped so far offsides it was ridiculous, yet no call, especially odd considering offsides is really the easiest penalty in the book to call other than perhaps a false start. Here's Easterbrook's write up for that game-- "The Patriots were flagged for just one 5-yard infraction, although there were at least four plays on which a Patriots offensive lineman wrapped both arms around a Buffalo pass-rusher, and the Flying Elvii benefited from an extremely convenient inadvertent whistle that ended a play when a Buffalo runner had 50 yards of green grass between him and the end zone. Meanwhile, the Bills were hit with seven penalties, including a ticky-tack nudge-in-the-back call that wiped out a fourth-quarter first down in New England territory and changed a scoring opportunity into a punt." http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...terbrook/060912 Some folks "get it" and call it like they see it. Kind of like Bart Scott in 2007 and you all see what the League did to him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Coming late to the discussion but I couldn't read past this part of the article; It's hard to envision an injury that had a more potentially catastrophic impact on football history this side of Gale Sayers. And while Brady may continue on to even greater things ahead, he will never recover the Great Lost Season of 2008. ;) :thumbsup: :wacko: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conch Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Coming late to the discussion but I couldn't read past this part of the article; It's hard to envision an injury that had a more potentially catastrophic impact on football history this side of Gale Sayers. And while Brady may continue on to even greater things ahead, he will never recover the Great Lost Season of 2008. ;) :thumbsup: :wacko: I agree completely. I got that far and thought WTF. Where is this asswipe coming from? The dude missed a season not a career. My wife's periods are more catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I agree completely. I got that far and thought WTF. Where is this asswipe coming from? The dude missed a season not a career. My wife's periods are more catastrophic. Someone should post the ESPN article from a few years back where Brady was playing the "No Respect" card after back to back championships*. The one where it is suggested that everyone must genuflect every time the name of Brady is uttered. This was during the season where you would see more Pats* worship at every commerical break on Sunday, you remember, "Tom, we're metaphors" and who can forget the lovable "Diet Pepsi Machine". Such good times! Pats* are a good team for sure, such a shame they will never get the respect for thier kicker dynasty because of thier 7 year cheating spree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 ...Meanwhile, the Bills were hit with seven penalties, including a ticky-tack nudge-in-the-back call that wiped out a fourth-quarter first down in New England territory and changed a scoring opportunity into a punt." http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...terbrook/060912 Some folks "get it" and call it like they see it. Kind of like Bart Scott in 2007 and you all see what the League did to him.... You know, I wish I had access to those games, make a video collection of them cheating and throw it in people's faces. I watch a lot more than Bills games and the league's treatment of them is dispicable. While I like watching football, I also know league owners and management want certain teams to win at certain times. I love LeBron James, but he gets away with murder, same with Shaq and other "stars". To label such accusations as mere quacky conspiracy theories is the point. To conspire is not something you do in public, so yes we must guess based on evidence. Unlike UFOs and anal probes at 2am I've seen clear evidence of their cheating during games and the refs are clearly allowing madness during the games. Also, to link yesterday's cheating to today's is laughable. The technology wasn't as good to relay, spy and interpret info as fast or as well 17 years ago. Now they have computer algorithms, advanced relays, and a much better system to be more accurate. Awesome, awesome post Matt and thanks for the Easterbrook comments. And everyone, if you think the country is fed-up with the bull-crap in the league with the Pats let me tell you what happened here in Texas when he got hurt. The entire freaking bar screamed and cheered. It's not a Bills vs. Pats, but everyone doesn't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Actually, if you bothered to read the interview, he did name names: Obviously Dallas; Schottenheimer and Hatley from the Chiefs; and Howard Mudd, from the Chiefs to, interestingly, the Colts. Notice after a career of futility against the Pats for Manning and Slow Tony Dungy, including 2 playoff losses, the Colts, after trailing 21-6 at the half of the 2006 AFCG, come out of the lockeroom and suddenly rattle off 32 2nd half points to edge the PAts. Nothing suspicious there. Mudd's back with the Colts now. Johnson was making claims about what happened 17 years ago. Without any substantiation whatsoever, much less for any claims of Mudd continuing to do it since that time. And the playoff game proved...what? The Colts ran the no-huddle on the final drive of the 1st half and noticed the Patriots' defense was tired-out by it. So they ran the no-huddle in the 2nd half and scored at-will. It didn't take stealing signals to figure that one out, pally. Or are you claiming that "Slow Tony" illegally videotaped signals as well? Well then, why didn't Belichick finger him, or any other coaches, when he got caught? Wait, let me guess: it's because he's too classy to do that. So you are now saying that JJ would willfully tarnish his own reputation and place the championships of his Dallas teams in question....because he is "fishing buddies" with another HC?? Wow. This is primo stuff. Again, it goes back to JJ's "credibility." No wonder you have a problem with it. And if he really cared about "tarnish[ing] his own reputation," he wouldn't have admitted that he had guys fishing through garbage. And it's not like anyone can do anything about it now, like take away his rings, the money he's made and fame he's achieved as a result. It's little different than Alex Rodriguez saying "yeah, I took steroids with the Rangers, but I'm clean now (and you can't do anything about it)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 Certainly the Jets and Dolphins games where JP was VERY bad. . . . Toss in the Cards game for the psychological factor. I'm not defending Trent. My point was that it's beyond ridiculous (oops, forgot where I was) I mean re-diculous, to speculate that Brady would have been the league AND Super Bowl MVP and that the Pat*s would have won the SB if had not been injured. BTW, Trent won the Broncos game, and aside from the 1st Qtr, looked pretty darned good. Come on now...you just named his ONLY good game in his last 8 as a reason why we would have won 3 more games if he was healthy...are you for real? One, AZ was beating us either way because we had no answer defensively for them. End of story. Secondly, he was terrible in 75% of of his last 8 games, yet you hang your hat on ONE game agaisnt one of the worst Defenses in the last 10 years...I seriously cant stop laughing at that. The other two were divisional games...guess what, Trent went for 3 TD's and 10 turnovers in his 4 divisional games, so on what grounds do you claim he would have performed better than JP to get the other 2 wins in the divison when he was awful in every divisional game last year? Good news is that he is young and shows promise. So hopefully he learns to make quicker reads, keeps his poise and stays healthy this year and he may just have a much improved breakout year with all these weapons and 2 seasons under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 So, in a league with 1696 players (more now before the rosters are trimmed to 53), the ONLY news makers are Favre, Brady, and Owens? Thank you for proving my point. The answer is yes! No one gives a dam about James Hardy, Chad Henne, Devin Hester, or any other player not doing anything at this exact moment news worthy other than the fans of their respective teams. But you dont report for the local fans when you are a NATIONAL MEDIA OUTLET, you appeal to the MASS fans and that means you cover the bigger stories...your local newspaper will tell you all about James Hardy. You just cant seem to accept that...I guarantee you that more people want to know how Brady's knee is holding up than dont... Funny, I dont remember seeing you on here crying for all the other 1695 players in this league when all the coverage was on T.O. Hmmm...maybe you are just a bit biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 A few simple points: 1.) The league clearly tried to minimize the damage caused by the Bellicheat* scandal by the simple fact they destroyed the tapes so quickly. For Bellicheat* to not even get a one game suspension is incomprehensible and Lynch gets 3 games! Its OK to cheat during actual NFL games but its a major crime against the NFL to have a couple of minor run ins with the law! 2.) Some major radio media in Boston were even surprised by how quickly the Bellicheat* scandal ended. After the initial penalty was announced the talk was "this thing is not going to go away" and there was MUCH speculation that at a minimum Bellicheat* would be forced to resign to save face for the Patsies*. 3.) The sports media is totally suck-up when it comes to the big name coaches, players, and teams, especially the coaches. Why in the world didn't someone in the sports media world not turn every stone over and interview everyone who had ever coached against Bellicheat* or worked for him and off and on the record gotten every detail about his* cheating ways and exposed them. Instead without missing a beat most of the media started bleating the Bellicheat* is the greatest chant right after the scandal. Bellicheat* is the greatest!!! Bellicheat* is the greatest!!! It makes me sick to hear the suck-ups. 4.) NFL officiating is not done under some conspiracy to make teams win but officials are more intimidated by certain coaches and teams and NE* clearly is the beneficiary of that to any objective observer. Kind of reminds me of the Dolphins in the 70's under Shula when he was the only coach on the NFL rules committee before some other coaches were added in the 80's. 5.) I don't think we have to worry about being too whiny as fans, my friends. I live in NE* surrounded by the most whiny, excuse filled, complaining about officials, complaining about other teams hitting their players (like in the Bruins/Carolina series), complaining about everything fans and media people. It was really funny a couple of weeks ago when the Bruins and Celtics were both struggling in the playoffs. A caller called WEEI and asked the hosts why they could never state that another team simply was better and that is why they beat a Boston team but instead they always made some excuse for why the Boston team lost. That is the mentality of the fans and media around here, there always has to be an excuse and no credit is given for any other team. Believe me when the Bills finally beat these crooks* the whiny NE* fans will not credit the Bills but have some excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I root for nothing other than a great showdown. I root for games . They're a great franchise, top to bottom. They're the standard not only for the NFL but for all of sports. They do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djcalvin79 Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 no one's changing any one else's minds here with their allegations/revelations.. you either deeply dislike the Pats* or else you write their name without the * and are dying to kiss Kraft's ass i preferred an earlier time when the Patriettes had their rear ends handed to them, what goes around comes around, then goes around again.. i'm young, i know i'll be around to see the end of this era and the return of the Patriettes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 no one's changing any one else's minds here with their allegations/revelations.. you either deeply dislike the Pats* or else you write their name without the * and are dying to kiss Kraft's ass i preferred an earlier time when the Patriettes had their rear ends handed to them, what goes around comes around, then goes around again.. i'm young, i know i'll be around to see the end of this era and the return of the Patriettes.. You are already witnessing their* demise - I expect the cheatriettes* will go 8-8, and miss the playoffs for the 2nd straight year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 No title since the camera got taken away, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 If I'm Mike Tomlin -I tape a copy of this to the team bulletin board. -I print out enough copies of that article for each returning member of the Super Bowl team and personally hand each their copy. -I frame the quote Brady, not Ben Roethlisberger, might have torched the pathetic Cardinals pass defense in the Super Bowl and hang it up on Big Ben's locker -I frame the quote Brady, not Santonio Holmes, might have won Super Bowl MVP honors. and hang it up on Santonio's locker Blatent Patriot* ball washing aside, that article totally disrespects the defending Super Bowl champs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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