Looks Like the Bills Found Themselves a Diamond in the Rough

[Magox]

It comes back to "I trust the Panthers evaluation of him more than yours." because you cannot refute his negatives. The Panthers drafted him at 42 because they know Peppers is gone they desperately need a DE, and he was the only good one left on the board.

 

 

Why do you even post if all you are going to do is parrot the "a good team drafted him so you must be wrong, lolz." line?

 

You were partly right about the 3-4 comment, but he does not project as a great 4-3 DE either.

Because history is the best lesson that we go by. The fact that they have one of the best track records for drafting D-Lineman is good enough for me.

 

Not only that, I've seen him E. Brown play a lot more than you have, and I can tell you, this guy has got all the moves, and the burst off the edge.

 

Your ridiculous evaluation of Brown, based on where he got drafted is exactly that, ridiculous. Why did Thurman go in the 2nd round, why did Anquan get drafted in the second, Brady in the 6th, Marquis Colestan in the 7th and etc. etc. etc. ?

 

Paaaleeeeese

 

I though he was the best DE prospect coming out of this year's draft, the Bills though other wise, which btw, I am very happy with the Maybin pick, because I believe he has a higher ceiling in my view.

 

So once again, if you want to discount the Panthers choice to draft him, well, than that says something about you. They have been one of the best in drafting D-Lineman and they went out of their way, mind you, they didn't draft him with one of their original draft choices, they went out of their way and traded next year's #1 to go after him.

 

Like I said, I will take their evaluation of him over your's any day of the week.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Not really. He doesn't use his hands well, and tends to just blow right by tackles because they can't get their hands on him. That's right from a Bills scout's mouth.

Everette Brown, NFL Draft Scout.com:

 

Use of Hands: Brown has very good natural hand usage, as he constantly keeps working a blocker and because of this, he is able to compete vs. bigger opponents with leverage, combined with his quick feet and hands. His pad level can get high at times, but he has a very good punch and extension to defeat the blocks. He uses his hands well with good placement, but does struggle to shed and escape at times, especially when working in-line. He has very good rip and pull moves and is very active with his hands when attempting to separate vs. the blockers on running plays. GRADE: 8.0

 

Pass Rush: Brown comes off the snap with a sudden first step. He shows very good dip and body lean on the edge and has the burst to get by a lethargic blocker in an instant. He is very active using his hands and is constantly running his feet. His spin move is very fluid and he can squeeze through tight areas, but must do a better job of protecting his feet from low blocks. His knee bend allows him to redirect and dip under blocks in his back side pursuit. His best asset is when he comes off the edge to collapse the pocket. His quickness allows him to run past offensive tackles to make the play behind the line of scrimmage. GRADE: 8.8

 

And Rivals.com:

 

Displays good body control off the edge with a coordinated spin move and good lateral mobility inside. Is technically sound for an underclassman and uses his arms well on counter moves. Very athletic and displays flexibility and body control to execute a variety of pass-rush moves proficiently. Wields a devastating spin move. Is effective looping and stunting and has too much speed for guards. Uses his hands well to push, pull, tug and club past defenders.

 

Firstly no one is assuming that Everette Brown would start. It's been made clear that Maybin will not start at first...that he'll start out as a situational pass rusher. If the Bills are not expecting their first rounder to start why would anyone assume that their second rounder would start?

 

Secondly the consensus was that Brown was the most polished pass rusher in this year's draft. Brown has a variety of moves (Maybin has none except speed rush to the outside). I don't know what dropped Brown but at #42 he would have been a great value. Carolina traded a number one pick next year to get Brown at #43, right after we took Byrd. On top of all this, Connor Barwin was also available when we picked Byrd. He also didn't last long after we passed him up, going to Houston at pick #46. Barwin was expected to be taken within the first two rounds.

 

I'm not at all against the drafting of Jairus Byrd but it certainly is a legit concern that the Bills passed over not one but two highly regarded pass rushers when they picked him. And as I've already pointed out numerous times before, the Bills also passed over an excellent pass rusher, Lawrence Sidbury at #121 when we drafted Shawn Nelson.

 

Hope Maybin works out because it was far from a consensus that he was the best DE in this draft.

Then you know nothing about Everette Brown. There are some very, very good reasons as to why he dropped.

Geez Fingon, I probably know at least as much about him as you do. Players drop every year. That doesn't legitimatize an argument that they're not a good player. As an earlier poster said in rebuttal, Shawn Nelson.

 

Why is it a concern?

 

Perhaps it's a testament to Byrd.

It's a concern if our pass rush continues to suck. As bolded above, I'm not against the drafting of Byrd. Apparently this is a real sensitive area for many of you because no one seems to want to discuss possible different directions the Bills could have taken. As I've said numerous times since the draft, I hope Maybin is the player everyone is hoping he'll be. I wouldn't have put all my eggs in his basket though. The Bills could have come out of this draft with at least two edge rushers, Maybin on the left and someone (Brown, Barwin, Sidbury) to augment Schobel on the right side and take over for the 32 year old eventually.

[DieHardBillsFan]

That something needs a reality check... Couldn't disagree with you more. Byrd will be competing with McKelvin to be our best DB within 12 to 24 months. Brown is someone who will have to change positions to have an impact and was a good/great player in an inferior, yet still overrated conference.

 

Umm no he is going to be a safety, and suddenly overrated because of one year?

 

Firstly no one is assuming that Everette Brown would start. It's been made clear that Maybin will not start at first...that he'll start out as a situational pass rusher. If the Bills are not expecting their first rounder to start why would anyone assume that their second rounder would start?

 

Secondly the consensus was that Brown was the most polished pass rusher in this year's draft. Brown has a variety of moves (Maybin has none except speed rush to the outside). I don't know what dropped Brown but at #42 he would have been a great value. Carolina traded a number one pick next year to get Brown at #43, right after we took Byrd. On top of all this, Connor Barwin was also available when we picked Byrd. He also didn't last long after we passed him up, going to Houston at pick #46. Barwin was expected to be taken within the first two rounds.

 

I'm not at all against the drafting of Jairus Byrd but it certainly is a legit concern that the Bills passed over not one but two highly regarded pass rushers when they picked him. And as I've already pointed out numerous times before, the Bills also passed over an excellent pass rusher, Lawrence Sidbury at #121 when we drafted Shawn Nelson.

 

Hope Maybin works out because it was far from a consensus that he was the best DE in this draft.

 

Bills Picked a DE to start in the future. He is a high value pick so I am sure they believed he was going to put the weight on and play 3 downs. Brown or anyone else would have been concidered a Schobel replacement. He felll to the second round for a reason. If he was the

 

A Bills scouts mouth?

 

That is laughable and just plain WRONG.

 

Brown was the most complete pass rusher(variety of moves etc.) available in the draft.

 

If you project him to best long term in the NFL, then the opinion can vary.

 

It wouldn't have happened. Cannot believe you pointed out Nelson our biggest steel for a need in the draft. Criticism on Maybin is fine but really it's pointless at this now since he is our guy and I am growing to like him more and more. Arrington, Lewis, pretty sure there were others behind him but wow that is encouraging. Arrington even came to Buffalo with him. So step behind him He is a Bill now!

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Fingon]

Because history is the best lesson that we go by. The fact that they have one of the best track records for drafting D-Lineman is good enough for me.

 

Not only that, I've seen him E. Brown play a lot more than you have, and I can tell you, this guy has got all the moves, and the burst off the edge.

 

Your ridiculous evaluation of Brown, based on where he got drafted is exactly that, ridiculous. Why did Thurman go in the 2nd round, why did Anquan get drafted in the second, Brady in the 6th, Marquis Colestan in the 7th and etc. etc. etc. ?

 

Paaaleeeeese

 

I though he was the best DE prospect coming out of this year's draft, the Bills though other wise, which btw, I am very happy with the Maybin pick, because I believe he has a higher ceiling in my view.

 

So once again, if you want to discount the Panthers choice to draft him, well, than that says something about you. They have been one of the best in drafting D-Lineman and they went out of their way, mind you, they didn't draft him with one of their original draft choices, they went out of their way and traded next year's #1 to go after him.

 

Like I said, I will take their evaluation of him over your's any day of the week.

My evaluation is not on where Brown was drafted, but why he was drafted there. The answer is inferior talent. Almost everyone had Brown slipping at least to the late first round. This is because his overall prospect rating is not as high as was once thought. He struggled against good competition in the post season. He has shown a tremendous amount of negatives, and you can call my analysis of Brown ridiculous, but it is backed up by the opinions of a plethora of scouts. I'm not saying he wasn't good value at 42, but he is nowhere near Maybin. The panthers have motives, outside of talent, for drafting Brown, these are the fact that his contract pales in comparison to Julius Pepper's asking price. They also know that he can sit on the bench and learn for a year, which is something the Bills don't have the luxury of doing. He may end up being a good player, but there is no denying that his talent is nowhere near the other DEs taken, and I'm almost certain that the Panthers would have loved to get their hands on some of the more highly rated DEs.

 

Then again, you could still call everything I've said ridiculous, because it's not like there are differing opinions among the NFL teams. My view on Brown is backed up by 30ish teams, and because the Panthers took him at 43 does not mean he will be a good player.

[Fingon]

Everette Brown, NFL Draft Scout.com:

 

Use of Hands: Brown has very good natural hand usage, as he constantly keeps working a blocker and because of this, he is able to compete vs. bigger opponents with leverage, combined with his quick feet and hands. His pad level can get high at times, but he has a very good punch and extension to defeat the blocks. He uses his hands well with good placement, but does struggle to shed and escape at times, especially when working in-line. He has very good rip and pull moves and is very active with his hands when attempting to separate vs. the blockers on running plays. GRADE: 8.0

 

Pass Rush: Brown comes off the snap with a sudden first step. He shows very good dip and body lean on the edge and has the burst to get by a lethargic blocker in an instant. He is very active using his hands and is constantly running his feet. His spin move is very fluid and he can squeeze through tight areas, but must do a better job of protecting his feet from low blocks. His knee bend allows him to redirect and dip under blocks in his back side pursuit. His best asset is when he comes off the edge to collapse the pocket. His quickness allows him to run past offensive tackles to make the play behind the line of scrimmage. GRADE: 8.8

 

And Rivals.com:

 

Displays good body control off the edge with a coordinated spin move and good lateral mobility inside. Is technically sound for an underclassman and uses his arms well on counter moves. Very athletic and displays flexibility and body control to execute a variety of pass-rush moves proficiently. Wields a devastating spin move. Is effective looping and stunting and has too much speed for guards. Uses his hands well to push, pull, tug and club past defenders.

ESPN:

Biggest asset is his first-step quickness. He explodes off the ball. Shows consistent ability to get the OT off-balance wide and then quickly redirects back inside. Displays a fluid spin move and also some power in his bull rush. Not coached very well as a pass rusher, though. Poor hand usage. Needs to refine pass rush moves and do a better job of protecting his lower body.

 

Bills Scout: Here's what Bills scout Shawn Heinlen had to say this week about Florida State defensive end Everette Brown, who is one of the top four pass rushers available in the NFL Draft.

 

Said Heinlen: “Everette is an extreme athlete for the position, explosive off the edge, a little undersized obviously. In the scheme at Florida State, they do a lot of upfield rush with him so he’s got to work on counter moves and those kind of things. So he’s still real raw at it. But he has that edge pass rush that everyone’s looking for. He’s very attractive to 3-4 teams because he is athletic enough to think he could play that outside linebacker spot. It’s just going to depend on projecting forward how big is he going to get because he’s an underclassman coming out early. He’s still got some physical development coming as he gets older. So you kind of have to project how heavy is he going to get to be that stout run defender also as you move forward the next couple years. But he gives you that edge pass rush from Day One."

 

"He doesn’t use his hands real effectively at this point because he’s able to get away with not having to at that level. Because he’s so quick off the edge and he bends the corner so well, he uses his lack of height to his advantage, where he can dip the corner and get underneath that offensive tackle’s shoulder. They don’t get their hands on him real well. They basically whiff. He’s going to work on that obviously at this level because the tackles are going to be that much better. But because he is such an athlete off the edge, it gives him the advantage as he learns and progresses going forward.”

 

 

 

I know, i know... bringing the opinions of actual scouts to this discussion is so inappropriate.

[Lurker]

I know, i know... bringing the opinions of actual scouts to this discussion is so inappropriate.

Yeah, the draftnick rating guides know way more than they do...

[K-9]

you're kidding right?

 

I like what Ive read about the kid but come on

 

Hey, nothing wrong with a little bit of offseason hyperbole. He may end up the biggest draft bust in history.

 

But as far as the DB version of Fitzgerald, I'm referring to his being brought up around the game when he was younger. Fitzgerald, as you may recall, practically grew up in the Vikings lockerroom. Same with Byrd, only with the Rams.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[K-9]

We will see with Byrd, but something tells me a combo of E. Brown and G. Wilson would have been a better combo than Kelsay and Byrd....

 

No disrespect, but Byrd has forgotten more about DB play than Wilson will ever learn. And I love G Wilson.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[K-9]

He fell because his potential isn't near any of the other DE prospects. He has good technique, but he has suspect athleticism, is short, has average arm length, and his first step is nowhere near Maybin's. You can teach pass rushing technique, but you can't teach freakish athleticism. The Panthers drafted him because they need leverage against Peppers, and he may be served better by sitting on the bench for a year or two.

 

Good point re the short arms. At the pro level, OTs are gonna get inside of him all day long. And without athleticism he's gonna need some time to develop. I think the Panthers got good value for where they took him though.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Ramius]

ESPN:

Biggest asset is his first-step quickness. He explodes off the ball. Shows consistent ability to get the OT off-balance wide and then quickly redirects back inside. Displays a fluid spin move and also some power in his bull rush. Not coached very well as a pass rusher, though. Poor hand usage. Needs to refine pass rush moves and do a better job of protecting his lower body.

 

Bills Scout: Here's what Bills scout Shawn Heinlen had to say this week about Florida State defensive end Everette Brown, who is one of the top four pass rushers available in the NFL Draft.

 

Said Heinlen: “Everette is an extreme athlete for the position, explosive off the edge, a little undersized obviously. In the scheme at Florida State, they do a lot of upfield rush with him so he’s got to work on counter moves and those kind of things. So he’s still real raw at it. But he has that edge pass rush that everyone’s looking for. He’s very attractive to 3-4 teams because he is athletic enough to think he could play that outside linebacker spot. It’s just going to depend on projecting forward how big is he going to get because he’s an underclassman coming out early. He’s still got some physical development coming as he gets older. So you kind of have to project how heavy is he going to get to be that stout run defender also as you move forward the next couple years. But he gives you that edge pass rush from Day One."

 

"He doesn’t use his hands real effectively at this point because he’s able to get away with not having to at that level. Because he’s so quick off the edge and he bends the corner so well, he uses his lack of height to his advantage, where he can dip the corner and get underneath that offensive tackle’s shoulder. They don’t get their hands on him real well. They basically whiff. He’s going to work on that obviously at this level because the tackles are going to be that much better. But because he is such an athlete off the edge, it gives him the advantage as he learns and progresses going forward.”

 

 

 

I know, i know... bringing the opinions of actual scouts to this discussion is so inappropriate.

 

Make up your mind. First you bash brown for his "poor use of hands." Then when presented with numerous sources claiming he does have good hands, you bash him for lack of athleticism. Now in your above posts, they seem to praise Brown's athleticism.

 

As to your argument of "the panthers had other reasons for drafting him aside from talent," well other teams have reasons for passing on players other than talent. Teams have specific needs, which can cause players to rise and fall based on these needs. After Ayers went at 18, there wasn't another DE taken until brown at #42. If the 3-4 D teams weren't projecting him as a OLB, they'd pass on him because he's not a 3-4 end. Just as well, if teams weren't targeting a DE early in the draft, they had no need to take him. There are a variety of reasons why players fall on draft day. But go ahead with your moronic line of "he sucks thats why no one took him until pick 42."

[Thoner7]

You are under the assumption that Everette Brown would even start. There is a reason Maybin was a top 10 prospect, and Brown slipped to the 2nd round. In fact, Brown's technique is doo-doo, and he relies on his speed to get by tackles (which is no where near as good as Maybin's). Maybin is essentially a much better version of Brown. Brown is short, and has average arm length... while Maybin is tall with very long arms.

 

There is a reason Carolina traded next years first rounder for Brown. There is also a reason as to why Maybin couldn't break into the starting lineup as a RS Soph until the guy infront of him was suspended. I am willing to bet the Penn St coaching staff knows something that we, and the Bills, may not.

 

On third downs Brown would start as a pure pass rusher, are you assuming the Byrd will start? They are rookies, but in three years I would have loved to have Maybin and Brown at the two ends a lot more than Maybin and some safety.

 

PS Maybin was a top 10 prospect in the eyes of a few ESPN draft figure heads and the Bills, but not in many NFL teams opinions.

[DieHardBillsFan]

My biggest problem with this post is "Finding a diamond in the rough" as our early second round pick... That should be a statement for a 4th, 5th or later pick not early second. When Poz was picked close to that pick he was a bonified starter. I am not sure how high he is on other charts but seemed like a severe reach and we could have found a better talent. Even picked him in a later round.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

It's quite clear the Bills drafted for players to help them compete immediately. That is all the explanation you need to understand why they took Byrd over Everett Brown. The Bills are trying to win now, and that's good for anyone who wants them to remain in Buffalo.

[K-9]

My biggest problem with this post is "Finding a diamond in the rough" as our early second round pick... That should be a statement for a 4th, 5th or later pick not early second. When Poz was picked close to that pick he was a bonified starter. I am not sure how high he is on other charts but seemed like a severe reach and we could have found a better talent. Even picked him in a later round.

 

And I couldn't agree more. My thread title was a response to the Pro-Pats thread below. And if THEY'RE 2nd round safety can be celebrated as a "diamond in the rough" then so can ours.

 

The real diamonds are those late round picks and street FAs that pan out and contribute.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Thoner7]

It's quite clear the Bills drafted for players to help them compete immediately. That is all the explanation you need to understand why they took Byrd over Everett Brown. The Bills are trying to win now, and that's good for anyone who wants them to remain in Buffalo.

 

I admire their attempt to win now, but we have no chance at winning now. Also that logic is flawed as Maybin is a much bigger project guy than Orakpo was. If they really wanted to get results from a rookie DE it would have been Orakpo.

[Lori]

There is a reason Carolina traded next years first rounder for Brown. There is also a reason as to why Maybin couldn't break into the starting lineup as a RS Soph until the guy infront of him was suspended. I am willing to bet the Penn St coaching staff knows something that we, and the Bills, may not.

 

On third downs Brown would start as a pure pass rusher, are you assuming the Byrd will start? They are rookies, but in three years I would have loved to have Maybin and Brown at the two ends a lot more than Maybin and some safety.

 

PS Maybin was a top 10 prospect in the eyes of a few ESPN draft figure heads and the Bills, but not in many NFL teams opinions.

Because the guy in front of him was a preseason All-American?

[Biscuit]

The biggest problem I have with the Jairus Bird pick is what happened at the next pick.

 

Not the selection of Everette Brown, but that San Francisco was able to get Carolina's first round pick in the 2010 draft (for the second round pick and a fourth-rounder (111th overall)). A Carolina team which is quarterbacked by Jake Delhomme.

 

Jairus is a slower version of Malcolm Jenkins, and he is being converted to free safety. He has tremendous ball skills, is tough, but he ran so poorly leading up to the draft which puts into question whether he warrants the 42nd overall pick. Given that free safety, nor cornerback was a pressing need for the Bills, I would rather have had them use the opportunity to trade a second rounder and acquire a future first rounder.

 

I would much rather have had the opportunity to select (or have picks to trade and acquire) a much better player today, in Eric Berry from Tennessee.

[GG]

The biggest problem I have with the Jairus Bird pick is what happened at the next pick.

 

Not the selection of Everette Brown, but that San Francisco was able to get Carolina's first round pick in the 2010 draft (for the second round pick and a fourth-rounder (111th overall)). A Carolina team which is quarterbacked by Jake Delhomme.

 

Jairus is a slower version of Malcolm Jenkins, and he is being converted to free safety. He has tremendous ball skills, is tough, but he ran so poorly leading up to the draft which puts into question whether he warrants the 42nd overall pick. Given that free safety, nor cornerback was a pressing need for the Bills, I would rather have had them use the opportunity to trade a second rounder and stockpile picks for next year.

 

I would much rather have had the opportunity to select (or have picks to trade and acquire) a much better player today, in Eric Berry from Tennessee.

 

Or maybe not.

[Magox]

There is a reason Carolina traded next years first rounder for Brown. There is also a reason as to why Maybin couldn't break into the starting lineup as a RS Soph until the guy infront of him was suspended. I am willing to bet the Penn St coaching staff knows something that we, and the Bills, may not.

 

On third downs Brown would start as a pure pass rusher, are you assuming the Byrd will start? They are rookies, but in three years I would have loved to have Maybin and Brown at the two ends a lot more than Maybin and some safety.

 

PS Maybin was a top 10 prospect in the eyes of a few ESPN draft figure heads and the Bills, but not in many NFL teams opinions.

umm ya,

 

That guy had 12.5 sacks the year before and over 20 tackles for losses.

 

The fact that Maybin showed enough ability and production to keep the job after he had the opportunity to replace him for a few games, speaks volumes.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

Umm no he is going to be a safety, and suddenly overrated because of one year?

 

 

I said Byrd would be in the discussion as best DB on team with McKelvin.... DB is not CB ... if you need more clarification please PM me

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

GO BILLS!!!