Biscuit

Um, wrong. The Steelers have two-a-days. They have morning practices which are closed and not open to the public. The calendar you linked to is the schedule for the open public practices, only. Tony Dungy teams, along with Marv's, and Tomlin's for that matter, were/are perennial Super Bowl contenders and playoff teams. The 2009 Bills are a very much different team. They have never made the playoffs under Jauron nor have they had a winning record under his tenure. Most importantly though, the crux of the issue, is that this team has several key positions that will need to be filled by rookies and as a result they will require more repetition then the veterans. Rookies can practice, veterans will get days off ... this is what most teams do that have grueling training camp schedules (to avoid wear and tear to the veterans). Both points were established in earlier posts in this thread.

Huh?! So instead of staying on topic, you now resort to that post. Pathetic.

No. I want you to write a letter to the editor of the Chronicle to have a petition made to have practice universally banned. It should work, because the D&C says so, case closed. FYI: Allen Iverson will be the first to sign.

Other teams will do the same, have a walk through, when they have a single afternoon practice scheduled that day.

No, rather since you have stated as much, that you do not value "practice" and believe that nothing can be learnt from it, any discussion with you is moot. Attempting to quantify the value of game action over practice is an absurd attempt by you, which lessens any point you attempt to make. Your quantifications are based solely in innuendo and not in fact. If what you imply is even remotely true teams would only schedule opposing team scrimmages and preseason games and no practice during training camps.

FYI: The Steelers had two-a-days in 2008, they have closed morning practices, therefore that number is difficult to determine if not published elsewhere. The Titans had more then one, because Jauron had the least last year which was only two. I believe they also have closed door morning practices and as a result it may be difficult to quantify.

Debunked?! No you still don't get the point. Rookies need practice time to get better. Rookies who are expected to start need even more practice. The Bills have rookies who are expected to start, yet have less practice time scheduled. I read Tuckers article and read it when it first came out, if what he said was universally accepted, then two-a-days would be obsolete. If what you say, that team meetings, unit meetings and film sessions are as important as physical practice, then why practice at all? The Bills probably win every game on the chalk board. Every team has film time, and some teams practice more to implement what they learnt in those meetings. Also, really a "double" impact for rookies, is that based upon the same facts that "debunked" my point, per you.

Exactly, as my initial post noted. It's not a question of a correlation to wins and losses alone, the Bills are different from the Patriots and Giants this year etc. Unlike them, the Bills rookies will be needed to contribute, especially along the offensive line. Dick should have back loaded and had more two-a-days in the middle part and end of camp, not for the veterans, but for the rookies who are needed to be contributors, immediately. If you are concerned about injuries and fatigue then you give veterans days off. Rookies need to practice to learn technique and discipline. Because Jauron did not do this, Maybin, Wood, Levitre and Byrd will, as Jauron stated; "miss work that's hard to make up." The entire organization knew that they would be granted an early start date for training camp because of the Hall Of Fame game therefore the front office had to be extra diligent to sign rookies earlier then other teams. Since the rookie salary pecking order has yet to materialize, the Bills decided not to set the market by signing and slotting them all. As a result, none of the Bills top 4 rookies will have experienced a two-a-day, they have lost practice time. Again, Dick was audacious to say that the rookies will "miss work that's hard to make up." Well ... why then is it hard to make up? Because you front loaded training camp with only two two-a-days in the first weekend which rookie contract hold outs would miss out on! Jauron has the power to rectify a lack of practice time for the rookies with a little foresight in scheduling!

For you, no I won't. Again, you probably would not understand the post given it will contain a series of words and numbers, together. I "cherry picked" teams that have won the last two Super Bowls and the team that dominates the division the Bills play in, but then again you probably didn't realize that (I know, I know, the comprehension thing is difficult for you).

Jauron's approach to practice makes me believe that Jauron does not seem to value the traditional definition of practice. His is like Allen Iverson's, only from another angle. The Bills draft and sign "intelligent" football players because this coaching staff puts the real work into film study and meetings. As a result intelligent players are needed to digest this and practice is used only to perform execution and not repetition (hence, training indoors during inclement weather although you're expected to play in the cold snow in the upcoming week). The by-product of this is the wear and tear on players is mitigated and players love him for it, he treats them as men, values their intelligence, and not their brawn like every other coach has likely done to them since high-school. It's an Ivy league approach to football, and not the traditional, blue collar approach that fans in Buffalo want and what Football folklore is based upon. It's an approach that is more pompous then lunch pail. Unfortunately for Jauron, he has no track record to show that this approach works. He may receive accolades from former players for his approach, but the results do not show the success of it.

... And I was the one who forced you to reply with piss-poor drive by post too. Your post: Which was shown to be irrelevant given the Giants training camp schedule in comparison to the Bills, which starts 8 days later yet has more practice time. You can go on drive-by posting with nothing but your opinion which lacks fact, contains lies and is worthless.

Sigh, again your lack of comprehension and phonic skills are piss-poor. Faulty premise?! You have shown a lack of basic comprehension skills to determine whether a premise is faulty. The Bills start an extra 8 days before a team like the Giants and still have fewer practices scheduled ... Did you miss Post #10 or can we add simple grade school mathematics as a problem area for you too. The Patriots have not released their entire training camp schedule so by you stating that the Bills "will have more total preparation time than the Patriots" is a lie, and leads me to conclude that you likely lie and give innuendo's to justify your piss-poor drive-by posts.

Knock it off. You are obtuse. You stated the absurd, that preseason games are more valuable then practice time, if that was the case then teams would only schedule scrimmages and pre-season games, which in itself violates player union agreements let alone gives teams zero time to implement schemes. Your lack of comprehension skills is your problem which you have to live with.

According to who? Then why do teams need to practice, just have preseason games every week of training camp, as you think they are more valuable.

And the Patriots will have had as much if not more practice time come the Bills first game. What are the Patriots practicing for to have scheduled as any practices as the Bills up to August 5th? The Bills are the one playing the extra GAME on August 9th. Really, "clowning around", then what the heck is the Players Union regulating practice time since, as you say they just clown around. What were the Giants complaining about to the Players Union about Coughlin's training camp two years ago, what they were trying to squeeze too many players into a clown car, too much seltzer in the eye, how about the clown shoes were too tight? Could you? Patriots haven't released their complete training camp schedule. So now I will "bother" and educate you on the obvious, The Giants have scheduled 25 practice times in a 17-day period and start later, August 3rd. The Bills started training camp August 25th, a full 8 days before the Giants, and have scheduled 23 practice times over a 26 day period and have one more pre season GAME, like you stated. They have one more GAME and still have LESS practice time scheduled then the Giants.

A week longer, yet come August 5th, the Patriots and Bills will have had the same amount of practice time and the Bills have one more Preseason game.

The Buffalo Bills, on July 26th, two days into training camp have now officially completed all of their scheduled two-a-days. Most teams have yet to open camp, and the Bills have concluded all of their two-a-days. No Buffalo rookie drafted in the first two rounds will participate in a two-a-day. Leodis McKelvin completed his first two two-a-day's ever in the NFL this weekend. Comparing Dick Jauron's training camp schedule with the New England Patriots illustrates the disparity and the Patriots are a veteran team who have won Super Bowls. If a team deserves a "Club Marv" training camp schedule it is the Patriots. Again, the Bills will only hold two two-a-days, like Jauron scheduled last year and the years before. The Patriots have only released the first 7 days of of their training camp schedule, and guess what, ALL of the first 7 days of camp are two-a-days! http://www.patriots.com/homepage/ The Bills, as a result of the Hall of Fame game were allowed to start camp 5 days earlier then the Patriots, but come August 5th they will have had the same amount of practice time AND the Bills have one extra Preseason game to play! The Giants will practice 25 times in a 17-day period. In 2008, coming off of a Super Bowl their training camp ran for 19 days and 29 practices. http://www.ualbanysports.com/ViewArt...&ATCLID=926899 Someone can make the argument that Belichick and Coughlin are task masters, unlike Jauron and unlike Jauron each have winning records and Super Bowls to show for it. Jauron like them have been coaching in the league for a long time, they all have tenure in the league, so what does a rookie coach like Mike Tomlin do in 2007? Tomlin scheduled 15 two-a-days, about twice what former Steelers coach Bill Cowher put his teams through. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07201/803114-66.stm When asked why he did this, Tomlin replied as a rookie head coach: "I want to come out of training camp a unified, hardened group that's ready to do battle." If you argue, that Tomlin too is a task master like Belichick and Coughlin look at Wade Phillips training camp schedule, it includes 11 two-a-days! http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/c...ning_camp.html Both Phillips and Jauron are on the coaching hot seat, and if neither win they both will be fired. Wade "No headset" Phillips is desperate to keep his job and is making sure his team gets in the practice time. In no way am I advocating a moronic blow horn wake-up call approach to training camp. I want results. This team has finished 7-9 the last three years under Jauron, and with the exception of last year, were notorious for starting off slow. Jauron schedules fewer practices, fewer in pads, then other coaches while he has one of the most inexperienced team. The Bills are counting on their rookies, notably along the offensive line to contribute immediately yet neither Wood or Levitre will have participated in a two-a-day. Levitre has just signed. It is unknown when Wood will. Jauron has the audacity to say regarding the unsigned rookies; "They'll miss work that's hard to make up," when he has all the power to have had them get the much needed practice time by scheduling more practice time!

The Bills did not make Super Bowls as a result of Mark Kelso. Could the Bills free safety position be better, most definitely yes. That is why I thought Whitner was being moved. Having a secondary now made up of a #8, #11, a second rounder, a third rounder and two fourth rounders drafted in the last 4 years is excessive in my opinion, especially when the team went 7 years without spending a first day pick on an offensive lineman. Look at Pioli's draft this year and what the Pats did in the early days, they never went to those excessive lengths.

The rookie salary cap fear in '10 was squashed by Goodell in January when he reassured prospects that there will not be one in 2010. As a result notable underclassman, and likely first rounders, like Gerald McCoy, Suh, Mays, Bradford etc. etc. could go back to school without the risk of a salary cap looming when they declare in 2010. My preferred scenario is a team with two first rounders next year, less FS Jairus Byrd and with Nelson as a result of trading a 2010 third rounder. Again, the safety position is deep on the Bills. The question with them is whether they are talented, with the exception of Whitner, they are not. And then you can argue whether the free safety position is a highly coveted position in the NFL, which it too is not.

You make the argument that a player with a year of experience in the NFL is better then a future first round pick, yet in your next paragraph make an argument that Byrd is better then already established NFL safeties on the team. Even if Jake Delhomme were to lead Carolina to a 2010 SB victory, getting multiple first rounders is ideal. My argument is that the talent in the 2010 draft is much, much more better then the talent in 2009, and I am not alone in that feeling. I do not believe that Free Safety is a glaring need on this team, enough so to warrant a second round pick. San Francisco got exceptional value by picking up a first round pick next year. Furthermore, given that at that moment in the draft and as a result, the Bills have in recent years used a #8 pick, #11 pick, a second rounder, a third rounder and two fourth rounders on defensive backs, and the Bills finally broke a streak of 7 years where they did not once use a first day pick on an offensive lineman, I would say this team has adequately addressed the defensive back position. Don't confuse deep with talented. The Bills have bodies at the safety position, but lack talent, much like other areas on the team. The free safety position is not a highly coveted position in the NFL. If Jairus Byrd becomes Ed Reed, great! I am not willing to believe that because it is wishful thinking. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised then ultimately disappointed in my expectations towards a second round free safety.

Because they can be a much better team in '10 with a player with more talent then one selected in a later round in '09. You can't be making a bodies argument, If so, then is Levitre worth two picks in '09? It's talent and not bodies which is an issue per Ralph. The Bills are already 5 deep at the cornerback position. And arguably, 4 deep at the safety position. It is a free safety we are talking about. Expecting a rookie second round free safety convert, in what many pundits considered a weak draft, to improve the overall talent of the team considerably is simply wishful thinking. The Bills in this instance did not draft to fill a glaring need with a second round free safety. See the 5 deep at cornerback position and 4 deep at the safety point above. First round picks are the most valuable currency in the NFL. With an unknown regarding the CBA and likely rookie salary scale impacting subsequent drafts, next years draft will be deep, elite and excellent (ie. exponentially better then this years).

Just as you don't know that Byrd may end up being a better player then Berry. It's an opinion. I would love for that to happen, but I currently doubt. Berry is a fantastic prospect, with incredible ball hawk skills. Berry's speed is not a question mark and at safety has man coverage ability as opposed to Jairus who is likely at best a bump corner but can still be solid. I would rather have the picks for next year. Next years draft will be epic.

Interesting that San Francisco also valued Jairus highly, even with the next pick. I believe both the Bills and San Fran valued Darius Butler enough causing New England to trade up and acquire the back-to-back second round picks and selecting him. But as the article states, and I agree, that San Fran got a tremendous deal by acquiring a first rounder for a draft next year which I feel will be epic, as Clayton notes, exceptional on the defensive line and includes first round free safety talent such as Eric Berry and Taylor Mays.

The biggest problem I have with the Jairus Bird pick is what happened at the next pick. Not the selection of Everette Brown, but that San Francisco was able to get Carolina's first round pick in the 2010 draft (for the second round pick and a fourth-rounder (111th overall)). A Carolina team which is quarterbacked by Jake Delhomme. Jairus is a slower version of Malcolm Jenkins, and he is being converted to free safety. He has tremendous ball skills, is tough, but he ran so poorly leading up to the draft which puts into question whether he warrants the 42nd overall pick. Given that free safety, nor cornerback was a pressing need for the Bills, I would rather have had them use the opportunity to trade a second rounder and acquire a future first rounder. I would much rather have had the opportunity to select (or have picks to trade and acquire) a much better player today, in Eric Berry from Tennessee.