Built to compete in the east.

[afcfan1]

I agree that this team has the talent, now, to be competitive, if the rookies are as good as advertised. I think given a proven coach and system you'd see a playoff team, and no one in the media or nfl circles would question it. The weakest link here, now, imo, is the coaching. Can they put together the right game plans, can they prepare their players mentally and physically - can we get back our home field advantage, especially in the winter - those questions are the hinges on which this season hangs, and trent's play, of course. And as for Dynasty, I'd like to just know the Bills will be in Buffalo for another ten years before we start on the Dynasty talk.

 

As an outsider, I honestly wonder where all of this talent is on the Buffalo Bills roster. The Bills just seem to be one of the least talented teams in the NFL. I am being 100% serious when I say this. When you break it down, the talent on the Bills roster is really just a few guys (Lynch, Evans, TO if this isn't the year that being old gets him, Stroud, Leodis and McGee as returners not corners). No I am not including Top 10 Whitner in there, because he is just not that good. Stroud is the only guy from either the DL or OL that would be considered above avg. If you take off the Bills colored galsses, and compare the Bills to other teams around the league, just in terms of pure talent, the Bills appear to be one of the least talented teams in the league. THey're gritty but not very talented.

[billybob]

How I graded Butler at RG - Positives- Pretty good at pulling, pretty good at pass blocking the smaller quicker DTs

Negatives- often got no movement on running plays, and got bull rusted into the pocket by the larger DTs.

 

He might be a better RT than he was a guard - that was his college position and he has a more traditional OT build.

[deep2evans]

As an outsider, I honestly wonder where all of this talent is on the Buffalo Bills roster. The Bills just seem to be one of the least talented teams in the NFL. I am being 100% serious when I say this. When you break it down, the talent on the Bills roster is really just a few guys (Lynch, Evans, TO if this isn't the year that being old gets him, Stroud, Leodis and McGee as returners not corners). No I am not including Top 10 Whitner in there, because he is just not that good. Stroud is the only guy from either the DL or OL that would be considered above avg. If you take off the Bills colored galsses, and compare the Bills to other teams around the league, just in terms of pure talent, the Bills appear to be one of the least talented teams in the league. THey're gritty but not very talented.

 

You're way off, and a complete moron.

 

There are a handful of teams that can compete with Owens, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Lynch, Jackson at the offensive skill positions.

 

Throw in what many consider a promising young QB, and that's a hell of a nucleus right there.

 

On defense, there's a sh-- load of young talent (McKelvin, Byrd, Youboty, Poz, Maybin) to go with a few solid vets (McGee, Mitchell, Stroud, Schobel, Whitner). If half of these guys can take a step forward this year, which isn't too much to ask, we're talking about a solid unit.

 

I'm sorry you can't see this. Reading your other posts, it's quite clear you're just a dipsh!t trying to stir the pot.

 

Did I forget that we have the league's most talented special teams unit? GTFO

[phillyrich]

With the additions of the rookies to the line, Butler moving out to Right Tackle gives the offense another weapon we have not yet discussed in full detail - Screen passes. We were sad on screens last year mainly because of how large the O-Line was. With Butler, the rookies and Hangartner, we now have the ability to nail defenses wanting to blistz with a screen pass that has mobile O Lineman ready to rumble.

[afcfan1]

You're way off, and a complete moron.

 

There are a handful of teams that can compete with Owens, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Lynch, Jackson at the offensive skill positions.

 

Throw in what many consider a promising young QB, and that's a hell of a nucleus right there.

 

On defense, there's a sh-- load of young talent (McKelvin, Byrd, Youboty, Poz, Maybin) to go with a few solid vets (McGee, Mitchell, Stroud, Schobel, Whitner). If half of these guys can take a step forward this year, which isn't too much to ask, we're talking about a solid unit.

 

I'm sorry you can't see this. Reading your other posts, it's quite clear you're just a dipsh!t trying to stir the pot.

 

Did I forget that we have the league's most talented special teams unit? GTFO

 

Weird, even with your Bills fan rebuttal you can't mention a single OL. That's not good. Reed, Parish and Jackson???? Are you serious? You tried to trade Parrish and couldn't get anything for him. Please let me know the next time Youboty, Poz, McGee as a corner, Schobel, Whitner or Mitchell make a big play.

[deep2evans]

Weird, even with your Bills fan rebuttal you can't mention a single OL. That's not good. Reed, Parish and Jackson???? Are you serious? You tried to trade Parrish and couldn't get anything for him. Please let me know the next time Youboty, Poz, McGee as a corner, Schobel, Whitner or Mitchell make a big play.

 

At their positions, I'll put Reed, Parrish, and Jackson up against anyone. Jackson could start on a lot of teams. Reed is a great 3rd WR - Parrish is dynamic, and we don't really count on him - but try and cover him with a safety or OLB and you're done.

 

Do I really need to go into the OLine state with you? They're a work in progress, but it looks very promising. Peters was a !@#$ing idiot, maybe our most talented player, but a piece of sh--. Everywhere else the line is improved, and when we're talking about pure talent, I'm going for skill positions anyway. Would anyone really list Jeff Saturday as one of the Colts most "talented" players?

 

Your last sentence is a collection of words that don't fit together, but I'll try and make something out of it anyway. Mitchell and McGee are solid starters. Whitner and Poz can be lumped together as TALENTED players who need to raise their game to the next level. Youboty is talented as !@#$ when healthy, a complete wild card. And Schobel is very solid when healthy as well.

 

Am I missing something here? The TALENT is there, as you should be able to see, but it hasn't quite fit together yet. Maybe that's the coaching, or maybe this is the year it comes together.

[BB-Gun]

Weird, even with your Bills fan rebuttal you can't mention a single OL. That's not good. Reed, Parish and Jackson???? Are you serious? You tried to trade Parrish and couldn't get anything for him. Please let me know the next time Youboty, Poz, McGee as a corner, Schobel, Whitner or Mitchell make a big play.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are undervaluing Bills players because they are not all household names.

 

NE MIA NYJ BUF

passing 1 2 4 3

rushing 4 1 3 2

OL 1 3 2 4

rush D 2 4 3 2

pass D 1 4 3 2

Special Team 2 4 3 1

Coaching 1 2 4 3

 

This is how I would rank the AFCE teams pre-training camp. I don't think we are so devoid of talent as you think, we just could definitely use more. Hopefully, we have that in our roster, and just need to be developed.

[offde-fence]

As far as talent, I'd say there are at least twenty teams in the nfl that'd love our secondary. Every team in the nfl is chasing our ST. Our recievers are arguably in the top four overall. I'd take our three top RB's over just about anyone's. We've got to be in the top five there. So, our only questionables are LB's, DL, OL, and QB. Our QB has promise and this season will tell; at season's end he could be top ten or bottom five. I'm leaning towards him being really Good with adequate protection. Our D-line, with Schoebel healthy, and add Maybin, might be pretty nasty. Maybe top ten. If our OLB spot gets filled nicely, then we've got at least middle of league talent there. And, our O-line looks one proven LT away from being one of the most promising in the league. So, these glasses might be tinted, but I'm seeing plenty of talent to compete.

[The Senator]

I understand what you are saying, but I think you are undervaluing Bills players because they are not all household names.

 

NE MIA NYJ BUF

passing 2 3 4 1

rushing 4 2 3 1

OL 2 4 3 1

rush D 2 4 3 1

pass D 2 4 3 1

Special Team 2 4 3 1

Coaching 2 3 4 1

 

This is how I would rank the AFCE teams pre-training camp. I don't think we are so devoid of talent as you think, we just could definitely use more. Hopefully, we have that in our roster, and just need to be developed.

fixed...

 

19 and 0 baby!!!

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

PosLUSZny!!!!!

[ax4782]

Weird, even with your Bills fan rebuttal you can't mention a single OL. That's not good. Reed, Parish and Jackson???? Are you serious? You tried to trade Parrish and couldn't get anything for him. Please let me know the next time Youboty, Poz, McGee as a corner, Schobel, Whitner or Mitchell make a big play.

 

Fine, let's go over the list. This kind of crap gets really old, but sometimes people's noses have to be rubbed in it.

 

Parish has, for the past two years been the top punt returner in the league. Period. He doesn't get a lot of reps at receiver because we have had too many people in front of him. He's a top talent in the return game. In case you have forgotten there are three phases to an NFL game, all of them important. Parrish's stats are as follows:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8469

 

Just for a summary, he's had 94 PRs in 54 games since he was drafted totaling 1312 and 3 TDs. No other punt returner has better numbers.

 

As for Fred Jackson, last year, his stats were as follows:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=10195

 

As a BACKUP running back, Fred Jackson has 188 carries for 871yds, good for a 4.6ypc average. You show me another backup running back that has those kinds of stats, and who carried for 110 yds against the Patriots Defense. You won't.

 

Josh Reed has been playing out of his best position, the slot for the past three years. He will be back at that position this year. As a number three receiver, he has the following stats:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=3564

 

No one is saying that he is a top ten receiver, but he is one of the five best #3's in the game.

 

Schobel is one a top-ten or twelve DE when healthy. Look at his career numbers.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2594

 

In his first seven injury free seasons he had 67 sacks. That's 9.75 per season. That's elite range. Averaging 10 per year is considered elite. He's right there. With him healthy again this season, and Maybin to take away double teams on passing downs, Schobel will get to ten sacks again.

 

As for the rest of your list. McGee is widely talked about as a top ten corner in the league. His stats as a CB show why:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=4569

 

Compare those statistics over the last two years with the player that McGee replaced in Nate Clements who was and is considered to be one of the top cover CBs in the NFL. His stats are as follows:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2569

 

Please note the clear similarities and in some cases better stats that McGee has accumulated in his six years compared to Clements in his 9 years. Kawika Mitchell is one of the top-fifteen OLBs in football. I'm tired of posting stats for you. Before making stupid statements you should look them up yourself. As for Youboty and Poz, they are still basically rookies. Poz played his first full season last year and looked strong at MLB. I'm not saying he was top fifteen last year, but the potential for him is there, and he's very young.

 

I know you're probably a Jets or Patriots fan because that's the cool thing to be. Just because the Bills are a small market and don't get a lot of love from the TV personalities on ESPN or FOX doesn't mean there isn't a lot of talent on this team. You mentioned that no one has mentioned the talent on the OL. Fine, quick, and without looking it up on ESPN or at Stats Inc. name me the five starters on Miami's OL in less than thirty seconds. Unless you rooted for that team you wouldn't be able to. Buffalo's right side last year was one of the best in football statistically. Walker is significantly underrated as an RT and Butler was basically a second year player who played well above expectations. That being said, the "superstar" player on our OL was traded and we now have a completely reworked and more solid OL left to right. Learn how the game is played and actually look up statistics before you go trolling on other teams' message boards. Unless of course your goal in life is to be a full time .

[atlbillsfan1975]

At their positions, I'll put Reed, Parrish, and Jackson up against anyone. Jackson could start on a lot of teams. Reed is a great 3rd WR - Parrish is dynamic, and we don't really count on him - but try and cover him with a safety or OLB and you're done.

 

Do I really need to go into the OLine state with you? They're a work in progress, but it looks very promising. Peters was a !@#$ing idiot, maybe our most talented player, but a piece of sh--. Everywhere else the line is improved, and when we're talking about pure talent, I'm going for skill positions anyway. Would anyone really list Jeff Saturday as one of the Colts most "talented" players?

 

Your last sentence is a collection of words that don't fit together, but I'll try and make something out of it anyway. Mitchell and McGee are solid starters. Whitner and Poz can be lumped together as TALENTED players who need to raise their game to the next level. Youboty is talented as !@#$ when healthy, a complete wild card. And Schobel is very solid when healthy as well.

 

Am I missing something here? The TALENT is there, as you should be able to see, but it hasn't quite fit together yet. Maybe that's the coaching, or maybe this is the year it comes together.

Deep, dont waste your time on the afc east guy. He is a pot stirrer. Has a very sad life i would bet. Probably walks around the house and kicks things a lot.

And you are right he does not know crap about football. People who watch the NFL, see that the Bills have a good nucleus of young Talented players in place. Injuries, and some coaching decisions have cost this team some Ws over the last two years. But hopefully we put it all together this year.

[The Senator]

Deep, dont waste your time on the afc east guy. He is a pot stirrer. Has a very sad life i would bet. Probably walks around the house and kicks things a lot.

And you are right he does not know crap about football. People who watch the NFL, see that the Bills have a good nucleus of young Talented players in place. Injuries, and some coaching decisions have cost this team some Ws over the last two years. But hopefully we put it all together this year.

Nothing to do in Provincetown, I guess, and he's just lonely and bored up there in Boys Town.

[Red]

"I agree with most of what you've said with two caveats. First, Brad Butler was probably our best offensive lineman last year. Butler was a very good OL player who is being rewarded by being moved to RT, a tougher position that requires more skill. If he was so terrible the team wouldn't be moving him, and frankly, watch the game film. He rarely gets beat in pass protection on the inside, and he is one of our best run blockers."

 

I could not agree more.

 

Brad Butler is one of the bright spots for the Bills in recent years.

 

HE reminds me of a New England Patriot kind of guy; tough, nasty, solid, and a relative nobody because he does not draw attention to himself through assinine off-field behavior or contract squabbles.

 

Go back, watch the tape on Butler.

 

With Modrak and Guy having such a poor track record on bringing in talent on the O-line, Butler is a success.

[mike6683]

As an outsider, I honestly wonder where all of this talent is on the Buffalo Bills roster. The Bills just seem to be one of the least talented teams in the NFL. I am being 100% serious when I say this. When you break it down, the talent on the Bills roster is really just a few guys (Lynch, Evans, TO if this isn't the year that being old gets him, Stroud, Leodis and McGee as returners not corners). No I am not including Top 10 Whitner in there, because he is just not that good. Stroud is the only guy from either the DL or OL that would be considered above avg. If you take off the Bills colored galsses, and compare the Bills to other teams around the league, just in terms of pure talent, the Bills appear to be one of the least talented teams in the league. THey're gritty but not very talented.

So what your saying is for how bad we are on paper 7-9 is pretty good? And Dick juron and Turk Are the geatest coaches in the league because the get so much out of so little?

[Lenigmusx]

Weird, even with your Bills fan rebuttal you can't mention a single OL. That's not good. Reed, Parish and Jackson???? Are you serious? You tried to trade Parrish and couldn't get anything for him. Please let me know the next time Youboty, Poz, McGee as a corner, Schobel, Whitner or Mitchell make a big play.

dude, your obviously a Pat lover! Get off of our board and go troll on the pats board! You know nothing about football as your earlier assessment of the Bills talent indicates. GFO

[Magox]

This idea that because Butler played RT in college that he can play in the pros is wishful thinking. Many college tackles kick inside because opposing DE's are faster and stronger.

 

As for the Bills competing in the AFCE, that also remains to be seen. One thing the Bills do quite a bit of is making cosmetic changes that casual uniformed fans think will make a difference in the W column. TO is a nice addition, but Rhodes averaged 3.5 ypc. But because casual fans recognize his name from Indianapolis, it's a good move. He's 30 and that number does not bode well for RB's.

 

The talk about the 2009 draft being a turning point also is premature. This type of discussion was tabled after Marv's first draft in 06. While that wasn't a complete failure, it hasn't set the foundation some fans thought it would be.

Would you rate Joseph Addai a good running back? I think most people who know football and even the "casual" one's would say yes. You want to take a guess what he did last year? 155 rushes for 544 yards. You want to know how many yards per attempt that is? Yup, you got it, 3.5. He also only had 5 TD's where as Rhodes had 9 Td's with 45 receptions. He also has been a career 4+ yards per attempt rusher. So, I think your point regarding Rhodes is invalid, I would have to say that was a reflection of the Colts poor Run blocking last year. You also mentioned that he is 30, if he was a RB that carried the load as a full time starter that would mean something, but considering he has 777 career rushes in 8 years, tells me he doesn't have too much wear in tear. He was good addition to the team as the 3rd RB and also to be our #2 RB in the first few games of the year. Very solid pickup!

 

Regarding Butler and being able to do the job at RT. I would definitely say it is not a sure thing that he will do well, but "wishful thinking" is a stretch. He is 6'7 has decent foot quickness, and did play Tackle with the Bills, but if you remember, we had just signed Langston Walker in 2007 and Peters was slated to be the LT. So the natural move was to get Butler on the field, and he ended up winning the starting job at gaurd in 2007. It wasn't a reflection of him being a poor tackle, it was more an indication that we all ready had our tackles in place and we wanted to get him out on the field.

[Magox]

MANY OT's in College start their NFL career at Guard, then move back to tackle after getting some seasoning. Ogden was one such player & he is a PRETTY GOOD NFL OT.

That's a good point, and that is what they are planning on doing with Jason Smith who btw was the #2 overall pick in this years draft.

[BillsVet]

Hmm, I have to respectfully disagree with your post, Vet.

 

In Para 1, your talk about Butler, at 6'7", 315, the man is absolutely built for a T position rather than G. Furthermore, his coaches, from college to pro see him as a natural Tackle.

 

Then when you talked about Rhodes you mentioned his low ypc; yeah, but what about his whopping 45 pass receptions and 9 TD's? Pretty impressive stuff.

 

Point out some good with the bad!

 

There are a host of players throughout the league with size similar to Butler. But genetically not all of us are created equal and not everyone with size will have the enough speed or strength. It's why everyone strong big guy can't play OL. The OT position requires a guy to handle faster DE's as opposed to bigger but slower DT's. That's quite a difference.

 

Rhodes is on his third team in three seasons. Someone pointed out that it's not bad for a 3rd RB, which is correct. It's not a concern, because he'll be fine for three games paired with Jackson until Lynch returns.

 

It's a long way to the regular season. Then again, there is nothing inspiring about DJ and his staff that makes me think they can get good players in position to make plays. I'm playing a wait and see with this franchise, given their 9 seasons of ineptitude. I like many players and some of their off-season decisions. But there's so much turnover on this team to think each change will be a good one.

[Max997]

Buffalo is preparing this team to compete realistically with all the other teams in the AFC east. They got killed by the 3-4 noseguards in the division hence getting rid off all three interior offensive linemen. Yeah Butler did suck also and his days as a guard are just about over in Buffalo. The additions of TO and Rhodes was all about the points. Proven Pros. This is a very good mix of young hardworking talent and exp pros. If Edwards gets it right this year this team will compete with anybody. There is a new attitude in Buffalo, soft players (Dockery) and malcontents (Peters) will not be tolerated. They will not go winless in the division this year. People are going to talk about this draft and the players that they brought in for 2009 as the turning point, the start of a new dynasty. I will go out on a limb now and say Russ Brandon is the executive of the year for the way he is turning around this team. Mental toughness and desire to play football are the kind of players that he is going out and aquiring. The mentaly soft Bills who fold like a lawn chair are not going to be on the field this year. I cannot wait till the season opener. Whipping Billy boy and uncle Tom on national TV is going to be a great feeling.

 

its really gonna piss you off when Butler is the Bills starting RT next year...he was the Bills best O-lineman last year and the running game suffered when he was out and not by coincidence performed its best toward the end of the year when he was back in the lineup

 

how about we talk about a playoff birth before talking about the start of a new dynasty....way to go out on a limb saying they will not go winless in the div again this year

 

this Bills draft was good but it certainly was not great....this teams biggest weakness has and will continue to be coaching

[jwws9999]

you guys are on drugs, when this team is ready to compete with NE and Pittsburgh, you let me know