Aaron Maybin - Situational Pass Rusher

[San-O]

First off, I really like that the Bills realize they need pass rush help fast, however not sure how this is

going to work out. Maybin was listed as 228 lbs. for the Senior Bowl I read, and then bulked up almost

20 lbs. for the combine, which has been regarded as a mistake.

 

At under 6' 4" and probably not going to get much heavier, this is not an every down DE and most likely

never will be IMO.

 

1. How does a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 use a situational pass rusher.

2. This player would come in on passing downs only.

3. Who goes out when he's in.

4. Does this limit the use of nickel or dime packages.

5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

 

 

Thanks.

[DreamOnDan]

First off, I really like that the Bills realize they need pass rush help fast, however not sure how this is

going to work out. Maybin was listed as 228 lbs. for the Senior Bowl I read, and then bulked up almost

20 lbs. for for the combine, which has been regarded as a mistake.

 

At under 6' 4" and probably not going to get much heavier, this is not an every down DE and most likely

never will be IMO.

 

1. How does a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 use a situational pass rusher.

2. This player would come in on passing downs only.

3. Who goes out when he's in.

4. Does this limit the use of nickel or dime packages.

5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

 

 

Thanks.

Every Down, look at all the starting DE in a tampa 2. They are all situational pass rushers, Freeny Mathis is a perfect combo. The De responsibility in a Tampa 2 is to Get upfield and contain and pass rush. That is pretty basic but really true

[bizell]

i think a good comparison for maybin is robert mathis.

 

robert mathis came out of alabama a&m weighing 235 and running a 4.67..

 

mathis has been a quality pass rushing DE. if we get that, then the maybin pick was a good one.

[LynchMob23]

First off, I really like that the Bills realize they need pass rush help fast, however not sure how this is

going to work out. Maybin was listed as 228 lbs. for the Senior Bowl I read, and then bulked up almost

20 lbs. for for the combine, which has been regarded as a mistake.

 

At under 6' 4" and probably not going to get much heavier, this is not an every down DE and most likely

never will be IMO.

 

1. How does a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 use a situational pass rusher.

2. This player would come in on passing downs only.

3. Who goes out when he's in.

4. Does this limit the use of nickel or dime packages.

5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

 

 

Thanks.

 

SoCal,

I think Aaron is a shade under 6'4, if that, so he's not like a Everette Brown who would have had a bit of trouble rounding the corner against long armed NFL Tackles...

 

Because of his age and the fact he's carrying about 250 now, he'll probably be a 240 lb'er for a few seasons, maybe more and by age say, 25 or so he will be able to keep the weight on as most of us do naturally through age.

 

1. I would say instead of thinking of him as "just" a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 pass rusher, think of him as a pass rusher. In terms of situationals, being a one-gap penetrating defense actually plays to his strengths. As Teerlinck, the Colts DL coach puts it, he wants his guys to stop the run on the way to the passer - meaning that as long as you're back there blowing up the play you're doing your job. Maybin would fit in perfectly with the defense in that regard. At first, until he is up to par strength wise, the run game may suffer a bit, but we can scheme around that...

 

With Maybin, he can focus on just getting after the QB in a number of ways:

o Getting into a wider stance and attempting to blow by the passer;

o Using countermoves learned from Sanders in addition to his speed rush, such as the spin move, etc outside of power, which he cannot use with any success at present;

o Scheming for him to be the "free rusher" on a blitz or line game, such as the Creep

 

To me, using him in the creep as a pseudo rush-linebacker is attractive because some of those blitzes out of the Creep didn't work at times because we didn't have someone with the wheels to get the QB. Now we do.

 

2. He can in fact just be a guy that comes in on the rushing downs, but we could also sprinkle in on downs that are a traditional passing down for a team (first down for instance)

 

3. When he goes in, I think Kelsay would go out and he would play LE. If Schobel is out getting spelled, I'd imagine it'd be a lineup of Stoud, Maybin, Spencer and someone else from the peanut gallery (McCargo, Kelsay, Denney, Ellis...) with him at RE. Because Maybin can play LE or RE and rush effectively (mind you from college) he is very versatile.

 

I think it would also hinge on the usage of the Creep, which is another way they could scheme for him to be open on the rush.

 

4. I don't think this would limit the number of nickel or dime packages, because the coverage in the back could remain the same. If anything, we could go "Big Nickel" (3 Safeties) if we felt having Maybin on the Nickel unit would require some beef behind him in case of run.

 

5. There are a ton of guys throughout the league that have been situational rushers and effective - Simeon Rice, Jason Taylor (at first), Freeney, Mathis, Leonard Little on the Superbowl Rams, Elvis Dumervil, Bruce toward the end....Heck, Darwin Walker was schemed to be a rusher at DT for the Eagles the year he got his 6 or so sacks.

[atlbillsfan1975]

I keep hearing so much about Maybin and his weight. Does 20lbs make that much of a difference? I mean come on guys. If he was 230, which is what i thought he played most of his days at PSU or weighs 250, do you really think a tackle will be able to block him any less? The answer is no. What he does need to do and it is what most Dlineman need to do transitioning, is learn technique and the speed of the game. Now he has the speed part down. You can't teach speed, you are either born with it, or not. He most likely will see a lot of third or second and long type of action. The LB behind him will be filling in on the interior and Maybin will need to be able to funnel the runner back into the middle. He will have to learn technique and get lower then the tackles. He will need to get stronger. If a 240 lb guy gets underneath a 315lb tackle who you think is going to win? The 240lb DE, everyday of the week. Trust me, his weight is not as big an issue as we are makeing it. Now his learning curve is a whole other story.

[manbeast]

First off, I really like that the Bills realize they need pass rush help fast, however not sure how this is

going to work out. Maybin was listed as 228 lbs. for the Senior Bowl I read, and then bulked up almost

20 lbs. for the combine, which has been regarded as a mistake.

 

At under 6' 4" and probably not going to get much heavier, this is not an every down DE and most likely

never will be IMO.

 

1. How does a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 use a situational pass rusher.

2. This player would come in on passing downs only.

3. Who goes out when he's in.

4. Does this limit the use of nickel or dime packages.

5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

 

Aaron Schobel is only listed at 243.

and he does just fine

Thanks.

[kota]

People need to focus less on his weight and speed and more on his actual Strength. How many reps on a bench did he do?

 

He needs to be strong to shed blocks and to stop the run.

[VJ91]

......5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

Thanks.

 

Of course they work....with the right athletes. Perry Fewell and his "11-Gap" / "Tampa (of 1976) 2" 4-3 base defense has been around running this garbage for 3 years now. Every year he and DJ talk about sending in DE's in waves. Keep fresh bodies coming in to rush the passer. The only "fresh body" that ever created any kind of push was that crazy DE that came over from the Rams....when he wasn't suspended....Anthony Hargrove. But the bottom line is, Fewell has plenty of "schemes" out of his cover-2 D for DE's to charge up field and go for the sack. I think I remember seeing Hargrove lining up in a 2 point stance like a linebacker right over the center a few times when the kid was around.

 

There is no reason why Maybin can't fill that exact role. Fewell can move him up and down the line, using the outside linebacker and strong safety to cover his outside responsibilities.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

o Scheming for him to be the "free rusher" on a blitz or line game, such as the Creep

 

To me, using him in the creep as a pseudo rush-linebacker is attractive because some of those blitzes out of the Creep didn't work at times because we didn't have someone with the wheels to get the QB. Now we do.

This is intriguing, because my understanding is that Kawika Mitchell has been the guy used in this role for us. Kawika Mitchell is nowhere close to the speed rusher that Maybin is. We've needed a guy like him in this scheme for a long time.

[Big Turk]

First off, I really like that the Bills realize they need pass rush help fast, however not sure how this is

going to work out. Maybin was listed as 228 lbs. for the Senior Bowl I read, and then bulked up almost

20 lbs. for the combine, which has been regarded as a mistake.

 

At under 6' 4" and probably not going to get much heavier, this is not an every down DE and most likely

never will be IMO.

 

1. How does a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 use a situational pass rusher.

2. This player would come in on passing downs only.

3. Who goes out when he's in.

4. Does this limit the use of nickel or dime packages.

5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

 

 

Thanks.

 

Many college players start out in this role. At 228 lbs, Maybin could very well turn into a pass rushing OLB if the coaches feel he can perform coverage duties well enough to get by, or if they create a scheme to utilize his pass rushing talents and limit his exposure to coverage...perhaps he could play OLB on 1st and 2nd downs, and then move to DE on 3rd downs, allowing a good coverage LB like Ellison to take his place behind him(Ellison had the best coverage ratings of any LB in his rookie season as charted by Pro Football Prospectus)...

 

Here are some answers to the questions:

 

1) People have the impression that Tampa 2 is all we play. This is in fact completely false, the same way that teams that play 3-4 defenses don't always play 3-4. This is the teams "base" defense, meaning on 1st and 2nd downs in most situations this is the defense they will use most of the times. On 3rd downs, most teams go to either a nickel or a dime defense---if you have 5 or 6 DB's, you obviously cannot have 3 DL's and 4 LB's(3-4 defense), unless you are allowed to play with 12 or 13 players on defense. If the Bills only played Tampa 2 they would always drop back in zone coverage and never blitz, and never play dime or nickel defense. Tampa 2 is just the base defense, the Bills mix in other styles of defense just like every other team in the league does when the situation warrants it.

 

2) Yes, this is actually quite common for rookies entering the NFL in their first year. Once they get the hang of this role, they usually start earning more playing time on other downs...

 

3) Denney/Kelsay would sit. We don't need guys in that situation that barely get to the QB as it is, and when they do, completely whiff on the sack attempt---sometimes more than once on the same play...

 

4) No---in fact that is the situation he likely will be used in---if the Bills keep in 4 down lineman in their nickel/dime situations, that means they will either have 2 LB's(Nickel) or 1 LB(Dime) in there as well. It should enhance our ability to get off the field on obvious passing downs if he can regularly force the ball to come out sooner than the QB wants to throw it...

 

5) Depends how good they are. I know Robert Mathis was extremely effective early in his career with Indy in a similar role, and I believe there have been quite a few players that have gotten 6-8 sacks or even more in a year playing this role...

[rpcolosi]

First off, I really like that the Bills realize they need pass rush help fast, however not sure how this is

going to work out. Maybin was listed as 228 lbs. for the Senior Bowl I read, and then bulked up almost

20 lbs. for the combine, which has been regarded as a mistake.

 

At under 6' 4" and probably not going to get much heavier, this is not an every down DE and most likely

never will be IMO.

 

1. How does a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 use a situational pass rusher.

2. This player would come in on passing downs only.

3. Who goes out when he's in.

4. Does this limit the use of nickel or dime packages.

5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

ya... lots of 21 year olds never gain weight. idiot

[Big Turk]

This is intriguing, because my understanding is that Kawika Mitchell has been the guy used in this role for us. Kawika Mitchell is nowhere close to the speed rusher that Maybin is. We've needed a guy like him in this scheme for a long time.

 

I do have to say that at times last year Mitchell looked like he was shot out of a cannon at the snap of the ball....he might not be that fast, but Mitchell sure can hit top speed really quickly...

[bizell]

I do have to say that at times last year Mitchell looked like he was shot out of a cannon at the snap of the ball....he might not be that fast, but Mitchell sure can hit top speed really quickly...

 

running in a straight line. if he has to adjust/change direction he's pretty much worthless as a pass rusher.

[BillsVet]

First off, I really like that the Bills realize they need pass rush help fast, however not sure how this is

going to work out. Maybin was listed as 228 lbs. for the Senior Bowl I read, and then bulked up almost

20 lbs. for the combine, which has been regarded as a mistake.

 

At under 6' 4" and probably not going to get much heavier, this is not an every down DE and most likely

never will be IMO.

 

1. How does a Tampa 2 / Cover 2 use a situational pass rusher.

2. This player would come in on passing downs only.

3. Who goes out when he's in.

4. Does this limit the use of nickel or dime packages.

5. Do situational pass rushers really work.

 

 

Thanks.

 

I like that they've selected a player for the long term and not to help DJ to hopefully make the playoffs. This pick is not about next year, but 2-3 years down the road, although he may help in 2009. I still maintain that fans who wanted Orakpo felt he was a more "finished" product, yet he too had issues against the run and is far from a complete DE despite being stronger. His performance in Texas' bowl game left a lot to be desired.

 

Maybin played in the Rose Bowl at roughly 230. He's gained 20 pounds, and most certainly increased his strength. I'm sure he'll add more weight, but I could see him playing at 250-260 for his entire career. Jason Taylor at two inches taller played with less weight on him. Having the speed to dip under OT's will be essential to his success. I'm confident he'll be able to get around those guys with more work on hand use and pass rush moves.

 

I see AM playing on obvious passing downs from the LDE spot. He's going up against some RT's, particularly in the AFCE, who aren't much. Damien Woody, Nick Kaczur, and Vernon Carey aren't the types who handle speed well. He could be solid in this type of role initially.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

running in a straight line. if he has to adjust/change direction he's pretty much worthless as a pass rusher.

Good conversation with many good points. Yes, Mitchell is a bit clunky as a player. Sometimes (as in his interceptions) he looks fairly athletic. Other times he's very clumsy and as the scouts would say, "doesn't break down on his tackles well." He had some horrible missed tackles last year.

 

I hope Maybin develops his game because from what little I've seen (Rose Bowl footage) he needs to. It seems to me that the Bills are banking on his athleticism and attitude to take him to the next level.

 

He has almost no moves, and at this point is almost exclusively a speed rusher although guys like Derrick Thomas were almost exclusively speed rushers too. I love the Bills draft but I'm most worried about the Maybin pick. As I pointed out he could be another Jevon Kearse and as someone else pointed out he could be the second coming of Andre Carter. Both of these players have averaged about 6-7 sacks per season. Stylistically these are the players he resembles most IMO. Between this concern and Schobel's quite possible decline, I was hoping the Bills would select Everette Brown or Connor Barwin at #42 and/or Lawrence Sidbury at #121. If we'd done that I think we'd be assured of having a strong pass rush this coming season.

 

Essentially we've put our hopes of an improved pass rush at the feet of Maybin and a 32 year old Aaron Schobel. Best case scenario Maybin's another Derrick Thomas.

[Magox]

I like that they've selected a player for the long term and not to help DJ to hopefully make the playoffs. This pick is not about next year, but 2-3 years down the road, although he may help in 2009. I still maintain that fans who wanted Orakpo felt he was a more "finished" product, yet he too had issues against the run and is far from a complete DE despite being stronger. His performance in Texas' bowl game left a lot to be desired.

 

Maybin played in the Rose Bowl at roughly 230. He's gained 20 pounds, and most certainly increased his strength. I'm sure he'll add more weight, but I could see him playing at 250-260 for his entire career. Jason Taylor at two inches taller played with less weight on him. Having the speed to dip under OT's will be essential to his success. I'm confident he'll be able to get around those guys with more work on hand use and pass rush moves.

 

I see AM playing on obvious passing downs from the LDE spot. He's going up against some RT's, particularly in the AFCE, who aren't much. Damien Woody, Nick Kaczur, and Vernon Carey aren't the types who handle speed well. He could be solid in this type of role initially.

good insight