wine in a carton

[thebug]

From another offshoot of Sebastiani, Three Loose Screws, comes this wine I really want to try, soon:

 

Used Automobile Parts

 

Here's some praise for this wine:

 

http://corkd.com/wine/view/62031-Used_Auto..._Red_Table_Wine

 

Used Automobile Parts uses the Vino-Seal closure, which has a glass stopper.

 

http://www.luxist.com/2006/05/13/the-vino-...ure-now-in-use/

 

 

I gotta say, I really like the creative names wine makers are using these days.

 

and why would you ever need to reseal a bottle of wine?

[olivier in france]

But Quaaludes.......

 

Sorry but with all the other wine regions of the world I'm not buying anything from La Clape.

 

Ok, ok seeing they cary it at my new home away from home I'll try it. If it's good Oliver can you get me a case at a better price? Oh and also seeing it's 55% Grenache I'm intrigued.

 

 

looks like a good deal... what's the current rate of the euro vs the dollar?

[olivier in france]

I don't know Oliver. I've heard the jury is still out on the plastic cork too. I can't imagine how that plastic flavor is kept out of the wines if you're storing for 10,20 or even 30 years.

 

 

i agree but i don't think they'll ever use anything but the classical cork for wines to be kept for more than 5-8 years.

[olivier in france]

I have a 1975 port that I'm saving for........hmmmm not sure what I'm saving it for. Maybe I'll chisten my new office with it.

 

Try a 30 year old Bordeaux and you'll know why people wait.

 

The same for a 1973 Montrachet i have ... well i was born in 1973... probably should drink it the year i die!!

[PromoTheRobot]

So what are the best $10 ones?

Santa Rita Chardonnay, Chile.

 

PTR

[Kevbeau]

From another offshoot of Sebastiani, Three Loose Screws, comes this wine I really want to try, soon:

 

Used Automobile Parts

 

Here's some praise for this wine:

 

http://corkd.com/wine/view/62031-Used_Auto..._Red_Table_Wine

 

Used Automobile Parts uses the Vino-Seal closure, which has a glass stopper.

 

http://www.luxist.com/2006/05/13/the-vino-...ure-now-in-use/

 

I've tried the three loose screws (good) and the used automobile parts (excellent). As for closure types:

 

Screw top>plastic cork>real cork

 

The screw top probably has a polypropylene liner, so essentially your seal is plastic same as the p-cork. However a screw top has less chance of temperature creep than the p-cork, therefore is more likely to hold its seal over time (keep in mind a plastic cork would rarely ever fail.)

 

The only concern I would have storing with a plastic based liner, is that plastic can have an affect on flavor, particularly when exposed to high temperatures (acetaldehydes/lubricants in the plastic can give the product a sweeter flavor.) As most wine (at least expensive wine) is stored at a consistent temp, this may not be a factor. Also, I haven't kept completely up to date, but they had pretty much gotten a handle on this problem as of 5 years ago and is probably a non-issue.

 

Chef, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that many wines that are stored long term are uncorked every few years and refilled from a "donor" bottle to compensate for evaporation through the cork.

 

So...I'd have no problem storing an expensive bottle of wine long term with a screw cap. I'd say it would have a better chance of maintaining it's structure over time than a similar bottle using a real cork.

[The Dean]

I've tried the three loose screws (good) and the used automobile parts (excellent). As for closure types:

 

Screw top>plastic cork>real cork

 

The screw top probably has a polypropylene liner, so essentially your seal is plastic same as the p-cork. However a screw top has less chance of temperature creep than the p-cork, therefore is more likely to hold its seal over time (keep in mind a plastic cork would rarely ever fail.)

 

The only concern I would have storing with a plastic based liner, is that plastic can have an affect on flavor, particularly when exposed to high temperatures (acetaldehydes/lubricants in the plastic can give the product a sweeter flavor.) As most wine (at least expensive wine) is stored at a consistent temp, this may not be a factor. Also, I haven't kept completely up to date, but they had pretty much gotten a handle on this problem as of 5 years ago and is probably a non-issue.

 

Chef, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that many wines that are stored long term are uncorked every few years and refilled from a "donor" bottle to compensate for evaporation through the cork.

So...I'd have no problem storing an expensive bottle of wine long term with a screw cap. I'd say it would have a better chance of maintaining it's structure over time than a similar bottle using a real cork.

 

 

Aged wine is sometimes reopened and refilled, but I think that is more common with Champagne, I could be wrong. However, you will see some slight loss of volume on very old bottles of wine. That these wines can be some of the best in the world suggests this loss, and the interaction with the environment, is what helps these world-class wines age:

 

http://www.thewineacademy.com/web/eng/noticia01.php?id=20

 

This artile is short and briefly discusses the qualities of different closures, and is very complimentary toward screw tops, but there is also this:

 

To understand the advantages of natural cork we must take into consideration the following: cork is a natural, almost perfect seal due to its multi cellular structure filled with air, making it very light and flexible. Cork is also a natural product, recyclable and biodegradable. Although the passage of oxygen through the cork is a moot point, it is said that this contributes to the long term process of maturation.

 

As far as I know there is no long-term evidence of screw caps which suggests otherwise.

 

Screw Tops are a convenience for the wine industry, as they are cheaper than cork, and there is better quality control. Screw Tops eliminate a lot of bad wine due to faulty corks, but I remain unconvinced they are a superior closure for the aging of great wine.

 

BTW, I will take a Zork or the new glass Vino-Seal over the screw top, for lesser wines.

[olivier in france]

Aged wine is sometimes reopened and refilled, but I think that is more common with Champagne, I could be wrong. However, you will see some slight loss of volume on very old bottles of wine. That these wines can be some of the best in the world suggests this loss, and the interaction with the environment, is what helps these world-class wines age:

 

http://www.thewineacademy.com/web/eng/noticia01.php?id=20

 

This artile is short and briefly discusses the qualities of different closures, and is very complimentary toward screw tops, but there is also this:

 

 

 

As far as I know there is no long-term evidence of screw caps which suggests otherwise.

 

Screw Tops are a convenience for the wine industry, as they are cheaper than cork, and there is better quality control. Screw Tops eliminate a lot of bad wine due to faulty corks, but I remain unconvinced they are a superior closure for the aging of great wine.

 

BTW, I will take a Zork or the new glass Vino-Seal over the screw top, for lesser wines.

 

you're right Dean the "refill" is mainly done for Champagne. I don't think any winery producing wine that need long aging "plays" with its old bottles refilling them... (the rule being once it's in the bottle you don't touch it, while there's refilling during all the time the wine is in barrels) .

 

and for the cork debate ... that screw top thing reminds me of the pasteurized milk used for cheese instead of raw milk : you lower the risk the product goes bad but at the end you don't reach the top level of quality you can reach using the higher risk method.

[Chef Jim]

i agree but i don't think they'll ever use anything but the classical cork for wines to be kept for more than 5-8 years.

 

Ok then what's the point? If people are worried about cork tainting the wine it's really only going to effect wines stored for many years. So what't the point of using non cork methods for wine that's not going to be aged if the cork won't be in contact with he wine long enough to taint it anyway?

[Chef Jim]

you're right Dean the "refill" is mainly done for Champagne. I don't think any winery producing wine that need long aging "plays" with its old bottles refilling them... (the rule being once it's in the bottle you don't touch it, while there's refilling during all the time the wine is in barrels) .

 

and for the cork debate ... that screw top thing reminds me of the pasteurized milk used for cheese instead of raw milk : you lower the risk the product goes bad but at the end you don't reach the top level of quality you can reach using the higher risk method.

 

Here's a good article on the recorking of wine. I've read some stories that it quite a ritual.

 

And Oliver, regarding recorking Champagne, I think your incorrect there. Champagne, though it can be, is not often aged in the same manner that red wine is so doesn't need to be recorked over time. As a matter of fact the majority of Champagne is not even of a named vintage. What you might be referring to is the method of getting the yeast particles out of the bottle of champagne. They bottle it and "rack" it as the yeast converts the sugar to CO2. To get the yeast out to "clarify" the Champagne they turn the bottles upside down and freeze the end, trapping the yeast particles. They then pop the cork and the CO2 expells the frozen part thereby "clarifying" the wine. They then top it off and reseal it. A pretty cool process.

[thebug]

Aged wine is sometimes reopened and refilled, but I think that is more common with Champagne, I could be wrong. However, you will see some slight loss of volume on very old bottles of wine. That these wines can be some of the best in the world suggests this loss, and the interaction with the environment, is what helps these world-class wines age:

 

http://www.thewineacademy.com/web/eng/noticia01.php?id=20

 

This artile is short and briefly discusses the qualities of different closures, and is very complimentary toward screw tops, but there is also this:

 

 

 

As far as I know there is no long-term evidence of screw caps which suggests otherwise.

 

Screw Tops are a convenience for the wine industry, as they are cheaper than cork, and there is better quality control. Screw Tops eliminate a lot of bad wine due to faulty corks, but I remain unconvinced they are a superior closure for the aging of great wine.

BTW, I will take a Zork or the new glass Vino-Seal over the screw top, for lesser wines.

 

 

You're just an old grumpy bastard resisting change.

[The Dean]

You're just an old grumpy bastard resisting change.

 

 

Perhaps.

[olivier in france]

Ok then what's the point? If people are worried about cork tainting the wine it's really only going to effect wines stored for many years. So what't the point of using non cork methods for wine that's not going to be aged if the cork won't be in contact with he wine long enough to taint it anyway?

 

easier to open

[olivier in france]

Here's a good article on the recorking of wine. I've read some stories that it quite a ritual.

 

And Oliver, regarding recorking Champagne, I think your incorrect there. Champagne, though it can be, is not often aged in the same manner that red wine is so doesn't need to be recorked over time. As a matter of fact the majority of Champagne is not even of a named vintage. What you might be referring to is the method of getting the yeast particles out of the bottle of champagne. They bottle it and "rack" it as the yeast converts the sugar to CO2. To get the yeast out to "clarify" the Champagne they turn the bottles upside down and freeze the end, trapping the yeast particles. They then pop the cork and the CO2 expells the frozen part thereby "clarifying" the wine. They then top it off and reseal it. A pretty cool process.

 

yeah that's what i was thinking about . A pretty cool process as you say!

[The Dean]

easier to open

 

 

Actually, I think a bad closure can ruin a wine fairly quickly. I think this has more to do with the expense of good cork, and wineries and distributes trying to minimize spoilage/returns.

[plenzmd1]

BTW, just thought I would mention that I love this vineyard for Zins. Not cheap, but not crazy either. Have been buying wine from them directly for about a decade, very good wines if you are a Zin lover.

http://www.wildhogvineyard.com/

 

And also, Deano and Chef move into the new millenium fellas Corks Screwtops Just kidding, didn't mean to start that whole argument way back many posts ago

[mead107]

And also, Deano and Chef move into the new millenium fellas Corks Screwtops Just kidding, didn't mean to start that whole argument way back many posts ago

Yes you did .

[Fan in San Diego]

BTW, just thought I would mention that I love this vineyard for Zins. Not cheap, but not crazy either. Have been buying wine from them directly for about a decade, very good wines if you are a Zin lover.

http://www.wildhogvineyard.com/

 

And also, Deano and Chef move into the new millenium fellas Corks Screwtops Just kidding, didn't mean to start that whole argument way back many posts ago

 

Did you watch the video of the wild hogs by his vinyard? I would be bagging one of those every now and then.

[Chef Jim]

Did you watch the video of the wild hogs by his vinyard? I would be banging one of those every now and then.

 

Duuuuude.

[Fan in San Diego]

Duuuuude.

 

Bagging as in shooting with a gun, bacon, ribs, chops, roasts and the like.