dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I remember the play vividly. Peters got out of his stance fine. It was when Umenyiora engaged/bull-rushed him and crunched him back on himself that Peters got injured. I originally thought it was a hyperextension of his leg. Whether you want to argue semantics over who dominated whom, Umenyiora won the battle because he knocked Peters out. I was highly disappointed when it happened because I thought Peters was an all-world LT and Umenyiora should have been able to do that to him. And the Giants went onto win the SB, shutting down the greatest offense in NFL history, so it can be argued that losing Peters wasn't the sole reason why the offense went into the tank, and that they made adjustments. ?? What "battle" are you talking about? One play, or all the plays in combination? In the previous three series, the Bills moved the ball easily without allowing any sacks. Did you do the same analysis of Peters v. Umenyiora in for the previous 20-25 plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 ?? What "battle" are you talking about? One play, or all the plays in combination? In the previous three series, the Bills moved the ball easily without allowing any sacks. Did you do the same analysis of Peters v. Umenyiora in for the previous 20-25 plays? Dude. He's talking about the entire game. Whoopty freaking doo, Peters held his own for half of the first quarter. But for the rest of the game he was on the sidelines, and it's quite likely the soon-to-be SB winners made adjustments. He was on the sidelines because Osi literally beat him down. And that was PART of the reason the offense began to stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Dude. He's talking about the entire game. Whoopty freaking doo, Peters held his own for half of the first quarter. But for the rest of the game he was on the sidelines, and it's quite likely the soon-to-be SB winners made adjustments. He was on the sidelines because Osi literally beat him down. And that was PART of the reason the offense began to stall. Well put. And many seem to forget the special teams problems that changed the game's momentum... Not to mention the fact that the Bills led 21-17 in the 4th quarter before some bad bounces and worse tackling cost them the game, long after Jason was sittin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Must be nice to live in a delusional world. Of course money is available. Money was always available in Ralph Wilson's world. But only Ralph Wilson decides how and on whom he spends HIS money. Only Ralph Wilson decides the fate of his franchise. You may pretend that his lieutenants control the spending, but you would figure that a 50-year history would prove that the lieutenants are nothing more than the public whipping boys for a rich man's plaything. Apparently not. Dockery and Walker were identified by John Guy, signed off by Marv and ultimately approved by Ralph. To think that John Guy (and the front office) were not instrumental in those signings is rather delusional on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Dude. He's talking about the entire game. Whoopty freaking doo, Peters held his own for half of the first quarter. But for the rest of the game he was on the sidelines, and it's quite likely the soon-to-be SB winners made adjustments. He was on the sidelines because Osi literally beat him down. And that was PART of the reason the offense began to stall. ?? Injuries occur for reasons that have to do with the internal workings of the body, not because of a "beat down" administered by one player to another. If that was the case, Derrick Dockery would have suffered many injuries last year. Peters got hurt in the course of play, which is a run-of-the-mill occurrence in the NFL. Before he got hurt, the offense was productive and provided excellent protection from the left side of the o-line; after he got hurt he was sacked numerous times from that side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Dockery and Walker were identified by John Guy, signed off by Marv and ultimately approved by Ralph. To think that John Guy (and the front office) were not instrumental in those signings is rather delusional on your part. Gerry's point is that all of the incompetents running the show, from Stew Barber on down, are in the final analysis the responsibility of Wilson. Wilson very conspicuously hired Donohoe, who in turn hired Guy and Modrak and promoted Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Gerry's point is that all of the incompetents running the show, from Stew Barber on down, are in the final analysis the responsibility of Wilson. Wilson very conspicuously hired Donohoe, who in turn hired Guy and Modrak and promoted Brandon. That in addition that the usual cast of incompetents don't even have the final say on matters. How many times does the same thing need repeating? It doesn't matter who has what title in the organization, it's a Ralph Wilson show, and particularly so after he got burnt by Donahoe. PS - the role of personnel directors (Pro & college) is to present the options. They are not the ones making the final decision. Some posters can't divorce from their pet theories, even though reality is in plain sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Dockery and Walker were identified by John Guy, signed off by Marv and ultimately approved by Ralph. To think that John Guy (and the front office) were not instrumental in those signings is rather delusional on your part. Our new scout, Buddy Nix, was on the Chargers' scouting team and in the past 5 drafts, SD has drafted 4 starting o-linemen. Everyone was picked in the 3rd round or lower. LT is a very overrated position nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Our new scout, Buddy Nix, was on the Chargers' scouting team and in the past 5 drafts, SD has drafted 4 starting o-linemen. Everyone was picked in the 3rd round or lower. LT is a very overrated position nowadays. Was very excited that Buddy's back. Hopefully that translates to building the line the right way -- through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Was very excited that Buddy's back. Hopefully that translates to building the line the right way -- through the draft. Although we differ on the Whitner pick (he's here now and he's still young), I agree with you 100%. If we don't draft at least 2 o-linemen and possibly more in the first half of the draft, I will finally see the glass half empty. There should be no one drafted that weighs under 220 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I can see the logic in not re-signing Peters and not re-signing Clements. But to get nothing in return and create a hole in your roster is just bad business. If the Bills weren't planning to pay Peters top dollar, they should have drafted Ryan Clady last year instead of McKelvin. If the Bills weren't going to pay Clements top dollar, they should have traded him in exchange for a first or second round pick. Regarding clements, you can keep saying whatever you want about not tagging/trading, but that's the norm in the NFL. Samuel, Briggs, Haynesworth, etc were all allowed to walk and test FA after they had been tagged. so based on your criteria, there are numerous retarded front offices, including new england. I believe the Bills had every intention on paying peters top dollar, only they wanted in on their terms. If Peters had showed up to camp and had a decent season, he would have been extended this offseason. The Bills simply didn't want to pay him in 2008, only 2 seasons after re-signing him. Thus, no reason to draft Clady. You can't predict that Peters would have held out all camp, because lots of players grumble about contracts and very rarely do they actual no show up to camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 LT is a very overrated position nowadays. The "elite" pass rushers today are DeMarcus Ware, Joey Porter, John Abraham, and James Harrison. 3 of the 4 were on playoff teams. 1 on the team that won the Super Bowl. But, no, this list doesn't seem to be quite up to a Lawrence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Derrick Thomas, etc. list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The "elite" pass rushers today are DeMarcus Ware, Joey Porter, John Abraham, and James Harrison. 3 of the 4 were on playoff teams. 1 on the team that won the Super Bowl. But, no, this list doesn't seem to be quite up to a Lawrence Taylor, Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Derrick Thomas, etc. list. Mario Williams should be on that list. And if it's an odd year, probably Peppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Regarding clements, you can keep saying whatever you want about not tagging/trading, but that's the norm in the NFL. Samuel, Briggs, Haynesworth, etc were all allowed to walk and test FA after they had been tagged. so based on your criteria, there are numerous retarded front offices, including new england. New England and Tennessee were playoff contenders. Squeezing an extra year out of their asset for the sake of a deep playoff run was far more valuable to them than getting a draft choice in return. In Buffalo, they were clearly rebuilding with a brand new GM and the front office had no intention whatsoever to re-sign Clements. Why keep him around when his value was at its peak? I believe the Bills had every intention on paying peters top dollar, only they wanted in on their terms. If Peters had showed up to camp and had a decent season, he would have been extended this offseason. The Bills simply didn't want to pay him in 2008, only 2 seasons after re-signing him. Thus, no reason to draft Clady. You can't predict that Peters would have held out all camp, because lots of players grumble about contracts and very rarely do they actual no show up to camp. It was fairly obvious where this was heading given that (a) Peters missed all voluntary workouts and (b) he wasn't returning phone calls or communicating with the team. It was also widely speculated throughout the offseason that Peters may hold out. Not to mention, it doesn't take a genius in the front office to predict what will happen when you pay Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker more than you're paying your best offensive lineman. While it is rare for players to not show up, it's also rare for a team to make their best offensive lineman the 3rd or 4th highest paid lineman on his own team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 New England and Tennessee were playoff contenders. Squeezing an extra year out of their asset for the sake of a deep playoff run was far more valuable to them than getting a draft choice in return. In Buffalo, they were clearly rebuilding with a brand new GM and the front office had no intention whatsoever to re-sign Clements. Why keep him around when his value was at its peak? Clements had a great year in 06, and made many of the games fun to watch. Did the Bills make the playoffs? No. But they were a better and more competitive team because of his presence. That's not chopped liver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 New England and Tennessee were playoff contenders. Squeezing an extra year out of their asset for the sake of a deep playoff run was far more valuable to them than getting a draft choice in return. In Buffalo, they were clearly rebuilding with a brand new GM and the front office had no intention whatsoever to re-sign Clements. Why keep him around when his value was at its peak? It was fairly obvious where this was heading given that (a) Peters missed all voluntary workouts and (b) he wasn't returning phone calls or communicating with the team. It was also widely speculated throughout the offseason that Peters may hold out. Not to mention, it doesn't take a genius in the front office to predict what will happen when you pay Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker more than you're paying your best offensive lineman. While it is rare for players to not show up, it's also rare for a team to make their best offensive lineman the 3rd or 4th highest paid lineman on his own team! I take it NFL teams negotiate in a vacuum and should have no consideration for what the players and agents do? Oh wait, we have an answer from your contradictory position. It was Bills fault for agreeing to Clements' demands of no FP designation if he reported to camp, because they wanted to avoid his pending holdout and it was Bills fault for not drafting Peters' replacement because they didn't predict his pending holdout. Which one is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I posted a few weeks ago, that I felt that Peters was a cancer on this team that had to be cut out. I stand by my earlier claims, but I also, while trying to be diplomatic and choosing my words carefully, accussed him of laying down. A lot of you questioned that, and felt that no NFL player actually lays dowm, well, maybe that used to be the case when people played for and with pride, but not any more in this egotistically self-centered world in which we live in. When he misses a block down the road, and there is someone else making more money than him on the same line, I am certain his attitude will again be, oh well. I applaud the Buffalo Bills for sticking to their collective guns, and not caving in to this neanderthal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 ?? Injuries occur for reasons that have to do with the internal workings of the body, not because of a "beat down" administered by one player to another. If that was the case, Derrick Dockery would have suffered many injuries last year. Peters got hurt in the course of play, which is a run-of-the-mill occurrence in the NFL. Before he got hurt, the offense was productive and provided excellent protection from the left side of the o-line; after he got hurt he was sacked numerous times from that side. Oh really, I think not, he mailed it in, looooooser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Oh really, I think not, he mailed it in, looooooser! ??? This makes no sense. Please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 ??? This makes no sense. Please clarify. Not sure if you were referring to Peters being injured for the last couple of games last year or not, but if so, he definitley was not hurt, but faking the injury, come to think of it, it really doesn't matter when it was, as I am pretty sure he was faking then to. Peters went about this thing absiloutley the wrong way, not saying that the Bills didn't have some responsibility, but very little IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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