C.Biscuit97 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 To further how DUMB this thread is...let me ask you this... So every game that Joe Montanna lost, Payton Manning lost, Brady has lost, Marino has lost, etc means the opposing QB is better than them because they beat them? You cant be this stupid...well, it is the TSW board, so maybe you can... JP Losman has won many games...so is he better than every QB he won against? I am dumbfounded by how lame this thread is... I must have missed these many Losman victories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm also sure Cutler would have the same monster stats with Robert Royal and Josh Reed as primary targets. Plus, that Mike Shanahan guy is not as good of coordinator as the Turk and has never made an average player look really good. Cutler got to play for one of the greatest offensive minds in NFL with a far superior group of weapons than Edwards has. Cutler has also never had a winning season since high school. Obviously, it's a team game but it really does make you wonder how he could not have one winning season. Stats are for fantasy geeks. I like Ws. And so far, Edwards has more Ws than Ls with a worse team. Now that TE finally has comparable weapons and Cutler is in Chicago with MS, we will have a fairer comparison of the 2 QBs. And they will be a lot closer than people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm also sure Cutler would have the same monster stats with Robert Royal and Josh Reed as primary targets. Plus, that Mike Shanahan guy is not as good of coordinator as the Turk and has never made an average player look really good. My God, what a novel concept. A NFL head coach making his players perform better. Who woulda thunk it ... Cutler got to play for one of the greatest offensive minds in NFL with a far superior group of weapons than Edwards has. Cutler has also never had a winning season since high school. Obviously, it's a team game but it really does make you wonder how he could not have one winning season. Stats are for fantasy geeks. I like Ws. And so far, Edwards has more Ws than Ls with a worse team. Now that TE finally has comparable weapons and Cutler is in Chicago with MS, we will have a fairer comparison of the 2 QBs. And they will be a lot closer than people think. Are you sure? As you yourself said, Shanahan did have that ability to make an "average player look really good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I must have missed these many Losman victories. Are you implying the Bills won zero games while Losman was a QB? My point was, as bas as Losman is, we won games with him is our QB...so by the OP logic, that makes him better than the teams we beat...thats how stupid this post is...might be the dumbest thread Ive seen on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 It's very easy to sit back and blame everything on a coaching staff. I've heard it all on this board. DJ and his staff are the reason Hardy didn't look good last year. DJ and his staff would have ruined Cutler's career. DJ and his staff are the reason Edwards regressed last year. DJ and his staff aren't getting the most out of Poz, Lynch, Jackson, and Evans. DJ and his staff routinely cost the Bills wins. DJ and his staff aren't going to use TO correctly. DJ and his staff are going to destroy whatever rookies we draft. DJ and his staff don't know how to draft. I can understand having criticism of the guy and some of his calls, but you make it seem like every call he makes is wrong. Trent Edward's play falls directly on his shoulders. Given his supporting cast, I would still say he performed poorly. If you want to see young QBs who are going in the right direction check out Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Phillip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, and even Jamrcus Russell is improving. Russell's season last year is comparable to Edwards and he was playing his best at the end of the season. Tyler Thigpen plays in an arguably worse situation and he played far better. Kyle Orton isn't a franchise Qb and he outplayed Edwards in a worse situation. If Jauron was really as bad as everyone here says, the players wouldn't publicly embrace him like they do. If the guy was ruining careers and hurting the team, vets wouldn't be coming out and saying he's our guy. Some posters make the argument that he lets them do what they want and practices inside, so thats why he gets support. This is such a lame excuse. NFL players care about their money, stats, and winning, in that order. I highly doubt practicing indoors is more important. They must feel confident that Jauron is not the reason their production is subpar. A Bills fan's worst nightmare is we don't have our Qb yet. It's much easier to jump on the bandwagon that blames everybody else. If his name was Losman and he was drafted in the first round, this board would be singing a much different tune. I have said before he deserves another season, and I believe that. I expect more than okay play this year and I hope most fans do as well. I want more than completion percentages and the meaning less Qb rating. That crap sounds like when JP homers whopointed to his physical attributes and potential. TOUCHDOWNS and FIRST DOWNS are what I'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Pushpile you are starting to get as bad as Alpha. He's Batman and you're Robin. Well, anyway, I'm glad the Bills FO and the rest of the NFL don't share you're views. Any one with a reasonable view, knows that Trent in his first full year played well enough, considering the lack of weapons and coaching staff to not even consider replacing him. If the NFL analysts or mocks felt the way you two do, then there would be talk of us drafting a QB. The only talk of us drafting a QB is ALpha's speculation and some other's on this board hahaha. you guyz are too much. But no where is there anything like that even mentioned, or trade talks or anything! My feeling is that some of you are going to hedge Trent's possible failure to our success. Deep down inside, I don't care how many times you say "he's a good guy, I like him and he has potential" bla bla bla, we all know there is a part of you that is rooting against him. Hoping that a player like Cutler who has terrible character and isn't even one of our own, you are secretly going to root for him. Don't say that you won't, because we know that you are. That's Sad. We do have our QB, and he's a going to continue to get better and I'm excited to see how we will do now with a full year under his belt, with an added weapon. Magox you are as delusional as they come...he played well enough? Please explain to me how this is "well enough" by looking at his last 8 games played: 1. A passer rating over 79 only twice in his last 8 games (and both were against horrid defenses). 2. 9 TD's (6 passing, 3 rushing) and 11 turnovers in last 8 games (8 Int's, 3 lost fumbles with 7 total fumbles) 3. 2 wins, 6 losses 4. Only 3 games over 200 yards passing, and none over 300 (as he has never had a 300 game in his career) 5. 3 games UNDER 150 yards passing...(Well 4 games, but the SF game he only played a half, but only had 112 yards in the half). 6. 3 games with ZERO TD's 7. 5 games under a 70 QB rating, including 2 at 50 or lower. How is this acceptable or "well enough"? How is this clearly not regression? How did Trent do in our division: He played 4 full games against the division: 1. ZERO wins, 4 LOSSES 2. QB Ratings: 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 70.1 3. Only 2 TD's yet 8 turnovers! Thats 1 TD for every 4 Turnovers...are you kidding me? 4. 2 games UNDER 130 yards passing! His slow starts put us behind all the time: Trents rating during the first quarter all season: 58.3 Trents first half rating: 75.3 How is Trent in the clutch during the whole season in close games where we are tied or trail? Well lets look: When game is Tied: 70.1 When behind 1-8 points: 79.6 When behind 9-16 points: 75.3 When behind overall: 78.3 All trents positive stats come when we are playing with a LEAD...he is a FRONT RUNNER! His QB rating when ahead is 116.0! He clearly plays WORSE when there is MORE pressure in the game and we NEED him to bring us back! How is he in the cold? Well, playing at home is cold...his rating is 80.4...not very good, ESPCCIALLY considering he is at home! Total TD's on the year rushing and passing: 14 Total turnovers (Int's and lost fumbles): 15 Total fumbles (lost and not lost): 9 He turns the ball over more than he scores, and was atrocious in this area in our divisional games where he turned the ball over at a 4:1 ratio to TD's... So, please, oh please, explain to me how this is "well enough" and acceptable play? And you dont get to pull your normal cop out answer here and dodge all this info by just saying that I dont like Trent... There is no amount of spin you can put on this to make Trent look good...he blew in his last 8 games for the most part and that was the BIGGEST reason we missed the playoffs, especially since JP was just as bad in 2 1/2 games... Here is the AMAZING part...we were IN everyone of these games despite this horrid play from Trent and JP. DJ and Co. deserve some credit for keeping us in games we had no business being in...its a minor miracle we won 7 games with this kind of QB play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Magox you are as delusional as they come...he played well enough? Please explain to me how this is "well enough" by looking at his last 8 games played: 1. A passer rating over 79 only twice in his last 8 games (and both were against horrid defenses). 2. 9 TD's (6 passing, 3 rushing) and 11 turnovers in last 8 games (8 Int's, 3 lost fumbles with 7 total fumbles) 3. 2 wins, 6 losses 4. Only 3 games over 200 yards passing, and none over 300 (as he has never had a 300 game in his career) 5. 3 games UNDER 150 yards passing...(Well 4 games, but the SF game he only played a half, but only had 112 yards in the half). 6. 3 games with ZERO TD's 7. 5 games under a 70 QB rating, including 2 at 50 or lower. How is this acceptable or "well enough"? How is this clearly not regression? How did Trent do in our division: He played 4 full games against the division: 1. ZERO wins, 4 LOSSES 2. QB Ratings: 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 70.1 3. Only 2 TD's yet 8 turnovers! Thats 1 TD for every 4 Turnovers...are you kidding me? 4. 2 games UNDER 130 yards passing! His slow starts put us behind all the time: Trents rating during the first quarter all season: 58.3 Trents first half rating: 75.3 How is Trent in the clutch in close games where we are tied or trail? Well lets look: When game is Tied: 70.1 When behind 1-8 points: 79.6 When behind 9-16 points: 75.3 When behind overall: 78.3 All trents positive stats come when we are playing with a LEAD...he is a FRONT RUNNER! His QB rating when ahead is 116.0! He clearly plays WORSE when there is MORE pressure in the game and we NEED him to bring us back! How is he in the cold? Well, playing at home is cold...his rating is 80.4...not very good, ESPCCIALLY considering he is at home! Total TD's on the year rushing and passing: 14 Total turnovers (Int's and lost fumbles): 15 Total fumbles (lost and not lost): 9 He turns the ball over more than he scores, and was atrocious in this area in our divisional games where he turned the ball over at a 4:1 ratio to TD's... So, please, oh please, explain to me how this is "well enough" and acceptable play? And you dont get to pull your normal cop out answer here and dodge all this info by just saying that I dont like Trent... There is no amount of spin you can put on this to make Trent look good...he blew in his last 8 games for the most part and that was the BIGGEST reason we missed the playoffs, especially since JP was just as bad in 2 1/2 games... Here is the AMAZING part...we were IN everyone of these games despite this horrid play from Trent and JP. DJ and Co. deserve some credit for keeping us in games we had no business being in...its a minor miracle we won 7 games with this kind of QB play... your audience is getting smaller by the way. don't you realize how foolish you look? and the crusade continues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 your audience is getting smaller by the way. don't you realize how foolish you look? and the crusade continues Magox, I said NO COP OUT ANSWERS...for once you get to address the info...its hilarious how you dodge this stuff in EVERY thread... Foolish? NOTHING and I mean NOTHING in my post is speculative or opinnion, its all FACTS! But to you, Facts = Crusade... You're the only one looking foolish, you dodge facts like Bush dodged work in the White House... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Magox, I said NO COP OUT ANSWERS...for once you get to address the info...its hilarious how you dodge this stuff in EVERY thread... Foolish? NOTHING and I mean NOTHING in my post is speculative or opinnion, its all FACTS! But to you, Facts = Crusade... You're the only one looking foolish, you dodge facts like Bush dodged work in the White House... I see you copying stats to your clipboard all day, so you can have them ready for your endless crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I see you copying stats to your clipboard all day, so you can have them ready for your endless crusade. I suspected that he was trolling but wasn't sure, until he posted that the Bills draft better than the Patriots. That was a fairly decent clue, wouldn't you say? In other words, our playoff drought is not the fault of Jauron, Ralph, or anybody else except Trent Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Are you sure? As you yourself said, Shanahan did have that ability to make an "average player look really good". Brandon Marshall = Lee Evans+Roscoe+Hardy Yes, they have better weapons. I'm willing to say Royal > Evans. Royal goes over the middle, Lee doesn't. The guy averaged more catches, more 1st downs, more yards per game, and was a rookie and only upside at this point. Lee has better hands thant Marshall and Royal. Yes, Cutler had much better weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I suspected that he was trolling but wasn't sure, until he posted that the Bills draft better than the Patriots. That was a fairly decent clue, wouldn't you say? In other words, our playoff drought is not the fault of Jauron, Ralph, or anybody else except Trent Edwards. Look at who was drafted, not the win/loss of team...NE is as good as they are because of a combo of draft and key FA signings...and they have a great FO... We have IMO overall had a slightly better draft in recent years...the DIFFERENCE is that NE has been good for 10 years...so if you blindly look at record you foolishly assume things. NE is incredible at finding players that fit with their system in both FA and draft...but that doesnt change my opinnion that overall in terms of NUMBER of good picks, we have a slight edge... And, hmmmm, maybe it looks so great for them because of a certain draft pick named Tom Brady too...hmmmm, what have we been missing since the nineties...a FREAKING QB...anyone with even a 1st grade IQ could see that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm glad that I inspire you so much Alpha to where you feel compelled to write these long winded posts that offer nothing new. Here, let me sum up one of your posts: bla bla bla....Trent sucks....bla bla bla.... "I have nothing against the guy" ....bla bla bla....Trent sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm glad that I inspire you so much Alpha to where you feel compelled to write these long winded posts that offer nothing new. Here, let me sum up one of your posts: You dodge facts like Bush dodges questions about Weapons of Mass Destruction... Do you even realize, how little you add to a conversation? I mean, your only response is "you dont like Trent"...thats it...you really should get a new line and post...it gets old...just being honest. Here is you: "Trent is a great QB, is clutch, etc, etc." Someone else: "But look at this (wealth of facts disputing your outlandish statements), so how can you say that?" You again: "You just don't like Trent and I am incapable of responding to your facts because your logic confuses me and you make too much sense..." Pretty much how it goes with you on every thread that involves Trent... So, I am still waiting for one, just one, intelligent response to what wrote and asked...I fully expect you to dodge it though, since thats all you do, ever...BillsVet is right there with you too so at least your not alone in ignoring facts... And I have never once said he sucks, I said his play thus far has not been very good overall, but he has potential and may get better, but never said he will always suck...but yes, his play last year sucked in the second half, and CLEARLY and UNDISPUTEDLY showed that already...you know, its those facts you pretend in lala land dont exist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 wanna shut the trent ballwashers up? just show them indisputable fact and they won't have anything to counter with other than poise/he has potential/i have a hugely homosexual more than mancrush on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Denver HAD to win the game at home against the Bills, and Edwards beat Cutler. Edwards seems to be a level headed guy who can emerge as a leader, especially if he gets protection, has some good play calling, and now has more weapons than ever. Cutler is an egomaniac, not to mention a crybaby. He'll flounder in Chicago. was that a one on one game between Edwards and Cutler?...Washington beat Buffalo in the Super Bowl, does that mean Mark Rypien was better then Jim Kelly? or does it make more sense that the skins were better then the Bills although I do think Cutler should have played better down the stretch their defense was pitiful and their running game wasnt good last year has Edwards even proved he can play in bad weather yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 wanna shut the trent ballwashers up? just show them indisputable fact and they won't have anything to counter with other than poise/he has potential/i have a hugely homosexual more than mancrush on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 You two should hook up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 You two should hook up! We did... ...with your girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 I suspected that he was trolling but wasn't sure, until he posted that the Bills draft better than the Patriots. That was a fairly decent clue, wouldn't you say? In other words, our playoff drought is not the fault of Jauron, Ralph, or anybody else except Trent Edwards. Bill why do you only defend Edward's poor play? I mean if somebody bashes Kelsay, no one says a thing. If another post is questioning Whitner's play or Poz's play, you might here a couple posters say we have to wait and see still. You take every chance you see to bash Jauron and staff, as do many here. The moment somebody questions Edwards regression last season, they get accused of not being a fan. I've literally seen posters say that Schobel is a waste of money and was never more than an average player. Yet, no one is calling them a bad fan? I just find it weird that some of you guys are so in love with this guy. Why? Is it still because he's not JP? Have you forgotten what good Qb play is? It's one thing to still have hope for improvement (which I do). It's quite another, to defend his collapse last season. A few observations: 1.Jaurons coaching only effects Edwards play. Rarely, if ever, have I seen this argument used for any other player. The other members of the team are identified for poor play and recieve the blame. Not the annointed one. 2. Any member of the Bills is open for performance review, without having to have your fan hood questioned. Any member that's not named Trent Edwards. Their is literally a 24-7 debate going on about our probowl LT. I've yet to see someone say, you are less of a fan, if you think Peters stinks. 3. The hardcore Trent fanboys are usually the hardcore anti JP crew. Is this a coincidence? Posters here marry themselves to an idea and can't admit to being wrong. Some posters actually think JP is a starting caliber Qb, still. You guys are like politicians. Trent lovers are sounding more and more like JP fanboys every post. It's everybody else's fault but JP/Trent. 4. The team has surrounded Edwards with some weapons this year, and excuses are already being formed for his future play. Yes, we could lose Peters, and the line might see some new faces. I'll reserve my evaluation of the protection until, a line is put together, and I actually see them play. I can already see some of you working on your excuse list. Sad. His protection was pretty good last year and some still bash it. 5. Facts and Stats are a useless tool for the Trent lover. You can lay out your concerns with the Qb position and sight game examples, while supporting those observations with facts, and you will be called a troll. An objective give and take, conversation can't be reached with fanboys. I can recall when this was the case with JP. You provide facts and Bill from NY, tries to say you aren't credible because he didn't agree with a totally off subject post four days ago. Magox just replies with an absurd accusation about someone's loyalty to the team. Let it be known if you ever utter a negative word about our Qb, you aren't a fan of the Bills anymore. Disclaimer: I'm still a Bills fan. Like many of you I have serious questions in regards to this team and organization. IMO, the Qb position is the most important and should not be exempt from evaluation. Our Qb has had good moments but has never shown me he can take the next step. Edwards deserves another year as the starter, because IMO 23 starts is not enough to evaluate a young Qb. He needs to show he can stay healthy and elevate his play consistently. I wasn't a fan of fan of the Fitzpatrick signing and I do think he will end having to start at somepoint this year. I would be a big fan of the team bringing in another Qb from the draft. I'm not saying wiht the first pick. A young Qb is like a lottery ticket and could provide a nice competition in camp. I say again, Trent is the starter but far from a sure thing and the team needs to start looking at the possibility of having to look elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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