Jason Peters

[Thurman#1]

So showing up completely out of shape and unprepared is okay because he missed training camp? This ain't Baseball where guys get fat and then come to spring training to get into shape. Football, because of it's physical nature takes a year round conditioning effort. So who's fault is it that he didn't show up? He has one good season and all of a sudden he's Anthony Munoz and wants to get paid like a great LT?

 

I think the easy way to get to the core of this argument and be as objective as possible is to simply ask the question, Does Jason Peters deserve the 11-12 million per year that he is wants?

I say no because a guy that gets paid like that should be an absolute game changer. I think Peters is good but he is not even close to what Pace, Ogden or Jones were in their prime. And since those 3 guys are/were his great contemporaries he should be judged against them and he's not even close.

 

 

 

Hey, you're right, "showing up completely out of shape" would be totally unacceptable. Of course, Peters didn't do that, so I have no idea what you and all the hordes screaming about this are talking about. He showed up in terrific shape, everyone on the Bills said so. That whole "he was out of shape" thing is simply not true. But if enough people yell it loud enough and often enough, people might begin to believe it. Which still wouldn't make it true.

 

But obviously, you can be in great weight-lifting and running shape and not look terrific on the field for the first few weeks. It happened to Bruce Smith every year he missed camp. His first few games he would be bad, then he'd do well at the end. Just like Peters did last year.

 

Whose fault was it that he didn't show up? I'm glad you asked that question. Whose fault is it that the Democrats and Republicans don't agree on social security? Whose fault is it that the economy in Buffalo sucks? Whose fault is it that there are fewer fish in the sea every day and more and more pollution, and an island of plastic twice the size of Texas floating in the North Atlantic? ( http://ourdescent.wordpress.com/2007/05/24...d-in-the-ocean/ )

 

The correct answer to all these questions as well as to who is responsible for Peters's holdout is: everyone involved in the situation on any side. You and I are responsible for that island of plastic, assuming you don't live on some kind of a green commune. And both Peters and the Buffalo Bills are responsible for Peters's holdout. Anyone who wants to hold either side completely responsible is oversimplifying and distorting the situation.

 

Another misstatement!! "One year" when he was good. Simply not true. Obviously and demonstratively false. Just because you see something written here again and again in anti-Peters threads doesn't mean that it is true. The guy exceeded expectations every year but the last. He was moved to LT halfway through 2006 and was terrific immediately.

 

 

If you want to judge him against Pace, Ogden or Jones, start with the fact that those guys played the position from college, while Peters's head coach had him at TE. Therefore he has had much less experience at the position than they do. Add in the fact that all of those guys had long careers and Peters is just entering his athletic prime. Finish with the fact that those three guys were at or near the top of the list of LTs for years, and Peters was also right at the absolute summit of his profession when he went to training camp. The next few years are exactly the years when Peters's ability to be mentioned in the same category with the all-time greats will be proved.

 

And that's why we are going to re-sign the guy, for a huge salary, if we have any sense at all. Luckily for all Bills fans, it certainly looks like we do indeed have the sense to keep this guy in Buffalo.

[Thurman#1]

Did you notice why he missed training camp? Becuase he is an underachieving whiner. And those who say these stats don't mean anything, is obviously not facing reality. Because he missed training camp could make him a little less effective for the first 3 or 4 games maybe, but he was still giving up game changing sacks in weeks 13 and later, which missing training camp should have nothing to do with. It isn't like he was learning to do something new? If he is this great Pro Bowl tackle, then all missing training camp should do is make him less in shape, and if he was a dedicated professional, he would have kept himself in shape on his own.

 

 

He missed training camp because the two sides were unable to come to agreement, so the dispute followed one of the commonest paths that this type of dispute follows. Saying it was all Peters's fault is like saying that Iraq was all Bush's fault. It is just way too simple, though Bush certainly gets his share of the blame, as does Peters.

 

Sigh. He WAS in shape. It kills me how people simply make up their own facts. Find one source close to the issue, one source on either side, who said that Peters was out of shape. The only people who say that are on boards and at water coolers.

[Thurman#1]

Did you see the game at the Meadowlands? Obviously not.

 

 

 

Yes. And Peters played very well, though not perfectly. Many have tried to assign blame on the two plays - two plays - that people mention over and over entirely to Peters. Which contravenes common sense. Look again at the two plays - TWO PLAYS - and you see that either could have been a communication mistake or a Dockery mistake.

[Thurman#1]

Well said Thurm. Why does every network isolate on Peters matchup with a replay? Maybe its because most of the positive plays are run to his side. The fact I rely is what I see with my own eyes. Peters shoves around his man again and again. Jason Peters is the best football player on this team. Is he better with camp and conditioning? Of course. I do know he and every otherlineman gives up a lot less sacks when Edwards is playing QB vs JP. That is a fact.

 

 

 

Let's agree to disagree about Peters and Trent/JP.

 

But yeah, he's our best guy, and there's absolutely no doubt about it. And that was in a year when he missed a training camp when they installed new signals for the o-line.

[Thurman#1]

A lousy year. Yup. Did you notice that he missed training camp? Think that might have something to do with it?

 

And every time somebody posts this same set of stats - I'd guess it's been done 175 times, but I might well have missed a hundred or so - I invite the person to post the same stats for the year before. Strangely, not one person has taken me up on that. So, I'll invite you, UBBULL, and the OP, THEDRIZZ, to get up the guts and the energy to post the same stats for 2007. Come on, if you have the stones.

 

Of course, I don't expect that you will, because that would show what Peters can do when he DOES go to training camp.

 

 

 

STILL WAITING.

 

Anyone going to post the same set of stats for 2007?

 

STILL WAITING.

[mrags]

The real issue here is this. If Peters holds out again. And takes another 4-6 games to get into football condition, then why the hell would we want to pay him after that? You can pull up stats to say he sucked last year, or you can give excuses that the other lineman were bad, or the running backs missed the blitz pickup, or it was a coverage sack because Trent/JP held on to the ball too long. But you cant argue the fact that Peters was much better as the season went on as opposed to the first 4-5 games or so. I say this, if we are so far on contract talks and Peters may be a hold-out again this year. It would be better to trade him and get someone in here that will show up. I want to keep Peters, but this needs to be resolved one way or another before the draft.

[pimp on da' net]

So from this "Sack Stat" comparison your trying to say that Peters is the worth start Tackle in football? PLEASE....

Its almost impossible for you to know the Bills Offensive Blocking scheme through out the whole game, if so we're really in trouble, because what could any DC's from around the league do with this information?

Jason Peters by his own admissions stated he was responsible for roughly 4-5 sacks this yr after reviewing game films during an interview (channel 7-Sunday Sports ). IMO, your stats are very questionable.

[The Dean]

Yes, after not attending camp, or playing on one preseason game, Peters had a sub-par year and allowed many more sacks than he has ever allowed in his career.

 

Your point?

 

I would think the best answer is to get his contract done, and get his ass into camp, so he can go back to being a rising star at Left Tackle.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Yes, after not attending camp, or playing on one preseason game, Peters had a sub-par year and allowed many more sacks than he has ever allowed in his career.

 

Your point?

 

I would think the best answer is to get his contract done, and get his ass into camp, so he can go back to being a rising star at Left Tackle.

GD , I am trying to have an office/admin day and this board is killing it!

 

I agree The Dean, but has he shown enough to justify an 11-12/per contract? I don't think anyone is saying that he's not good, but is he great? Will the Bills be greatly overpaying for him at his asking price? I say there is almost no way to argue that they will be overpaying by alot. Look what overpaying players has gotten us, no pass rush and former soft LG.

[ddaryl]

If peters doens't accept the Bills offer of 8.5 - 9 mil per season then screw him

[The Dean]

GD , I am trying to have an office/admin day and this board is killing it!

 

I agree The Dean, but has he shown enough to justify an 11-12/per contract? I don't think anyone is saying that he's not good, but is he great? Will the Bills be greatly overpaying for him at his asking price? I say there is almost no way to argue that they will be overpaying by alot. Look what overpaying players has gotten us, no pass rush and former soft LG.

 

Is he worth $11 mil/year today? Probably not. And, honestly, I don't think it is going to take $11 mil/year to get him signed. I would make it POSSIBLE for him to get top LT$, but if the two sides are $3 mill apart, I'm guessing there is a deal to be made somewhere in the middle. As long as the guaranteed money (bonus) isn't astronomically high, then what's the real risk?

 

Also, if Peters really is the real deal, in the early stages of his career, $11 mil will be a bargain, in a few years...and the Bills might be looking to re-do his contract once again. Top draft picks who have yet to play ONE down in the NFL are getting seriously big money to play Left Tackle. If the Bills don't give it to Peters, and draft a LT at #11, he will get a very big contract (much bigger than Peter's current deal)...he won't get $11 million, right away as a #11 pick...but, remember, he also could be a total flop.

 

We already know Peters can play in the NFL at a very high level. I don't understand risking the season by letting him go over a few million dollars, only to spend multiple millions on an unknown. The only way I would trade Jason Peters is if another high-quality LT came in return. Of course, that LT is either making, or will want, really big $$, too, now or in the near future.

[thebandit27]

I can't believe that I'm replying to another idiotic "Peters sucks" thread, but since you wanted the FACTS, let's lay out some FACTS that you (understadably) left out:

 

- For the last time, "sacks allowed" is NOT an official stat. Not by the NFL, Elias, or Dallas Morning News. There's a reason for this: it's very difficult to track.

- Peters is not among the 20 highest-paid left tackles (forget about how many right tackles make more than him) in the game. For a 2-time pro bowler, that's a travesty

- In the last 10 years, not one team has traded a pro bowl left tackle. There's also a reason for this: no team is that stupid. The last team to trade a pro bowl tackle was the Saints, who traded Willie Roaf to the Chiefs in 2000. The Chiefs had the #1 offense in the NFL for the next 3 years, while the Saints o-line struggled until they plucked Jammal Brown in the first round of the 2005 draft.

- If you want to talk sacks, why not bring up a team with a great offensive line? How about the Giants? In 2007 (you know, the year they won the Superbowl), LT David Diehl allegedly "allowed" the most sacks in the NFL (I've posted this about 10 times so far, but nobody ever acknowledges it), and the Giants rewarded him with a 4-year, $33M extension. They continue to have a good o-line today.

- Lastly, the last time Peters signed a new deal was during the 2006 season. The next year, he had a dominant campaign at left tackle, there's no reason to think he won't perform if given a new contract this time.

 

So, how do these FACTS suit you?

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Is he worth $11 mil/year today? Probably not. And, honestly, I don't think it is going to take $11 mil/year to get him signed. I would make it POSSIBLE for him to get top LT$, but if the two sides are $3 mill apart, I'm guessing there is a deal to be made somewhere in the middle. As long as the guaranteed money (bonus) isn't astronomically high, then what's the real risk?

 

Also, if Peters really is the real deal, in the early stages of his career, $11 mil will be a bargain, in a few years...and the Bills might be looking to re-do his contract once again. Top draft picks who have yet to play ONE down in the NFL are getting seriously big money to play Left Tackle. If the Bills don't give it to Peters, and draft a LT at #11, he will get a very big contract (much bigger than Peter's current deal)...he won't get $11 million, right away as a #11 pick...but, remember, he also could be a total flop.

 

We already know Peters can play in the NFL at a very high level. I don't understand risking the season by letting him go over a few million dollars, only to spend multiple millions on an unknown. The only way I would trade Jason Peters is if another high-quality LT came in return. Of course, that LT is either making, or will want, really big $$, too, now or in the near future.

Why I think you're giving a little to much credit to Peters, YOU"RE RIGHT! But that little 2,3,4 million dollar gap per year is signicant when we are discussing the Bills. If he were an Cowboy I would be saying, just pay the guy! But these are the Buffalo Bills and spending 10% of the cap on a guy who is good, not great, is just not going to happen. Maybe I'm just preparing myself for the inevitable, a large hole at LT.

[KOKBILLS]

Is he worth $11 mil/year today? Probably not. And, honestly, I don't think it is going to take $11 mil/year to get him signed. I would make it POSSIBLE for him to get top LT$, but if the two sides are $3 mill apart, I'm guessing there is a deal to be made somewhere in the middle. As long as the guaranteed money (bonus) isn't astronomically high, then what's the real risk?

 

I wish I shared Your optimism...but I don't...I think Peters will be the Top Paid LT in The NFL by the time this is all said and done...I don't think He's going to accept less...And I think that is going to seal His fate as a Buffalo Bill...I think He holds out for the Top LT cash and forces a Trade...

 

Just My opinion...

[KOKBILLS]

Why I think you're giving a little to much credit to Peters, YOU"RE RIGHT! But that little 2,3,4 million dollar gap per year is signicant when we are discussing the Bills. If he were an Cowboy I would be saying, just pay the guy! But these are the Buffalo Bills and spending 10% of the cap on a guy who is good, not great, is just not going to happen. Maybe I'm just preparing myself for the inevitable, a large hole at LT.

 

Agreed...

[BuffaloBill]

Let's assume for now that the stats you throw out are absolutely correct. If Peters sucks so bad then whay are the following true:

 

• The players and coaches who vote for the probowl have the same stats available to them. They seem not to put much weight on them.
  The Bills cut Dockery in an admission that he was a failure - do you suppose any of the sacks assigned to peters may have had something to do with Dockery's poor play?
  The Bills have not shopped Peters in any trade scenario. People on this board have suggested they should, the media in other NFL cities have tried to speculate the Bills might. Bottom line is that the Bills have not.
  Even during his holdout the Bills office never questioned his play. They also did not following the season. They did let their starting center(s) and LG go.
  The Bills could have signed Peters to a much lower contract had they gotten busy this time last offseason. I do not doubt that missiing camp and OTA's had an effect on Peters play. the Bills are as responsible as Peters for this situation.
  

 

Let's get off this trade Peters BS and get him signed.

[The Dean]

I wish I shared Your optimism...but I don't...I think Peters will be the Top Paid LT in The NFL by the time this is all said and done...I don't think He's going to accept less...And I think that is going to seal His fate as a Buffalo Bill...I think He holds out for the Top LT cash and forces a Trade...

 

Just My opinion...

 

 

If the Bills can get a deal done, that gets them as starting LT, then fine. But, if not, I'd let Peters sit. Not to punish him, but simply to make the statement that they won't/can't be forced info a bad deal. The holdout hurt both sides, last year. Another one is likely to do the same. The Bills need to cover their bases, and make sure that position is filled, either way.

 

But, as far as Jason not budging from being the highest paid LT in the league, I think you are wrong. I am certain he wants to be AMONG the highest paid, though. I'm guessing he (and his agents) aren't negotiating until after the draft, so they can see what kind of $$ the top LT in the draft gets.

 

But, in the final analysis, I would have no problem constructing a contract that gives Peters the opportunity to be the highest (or among the highest) paid LTs in the game. Bonus for off-season workout program, bonus for attending OTAs, bonus for being in camp on time, etc.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Let's assume for now that the stats you throw out are absolutely correct. If Peters sucks so bad then whay are the following true:

 

• The players and coaches who vote for the probowl have the same stats available to them. They seem not to put much weight on them.
  The Bills cut Dockery in an admission that he was a failure - do you suppose any of the sacks assigned to peters may have had something to do with Dockery's poor play?
  The Bills have not shopped Peters in any trade scenario. People on this board have suggested they should, the media in other NFL cities have tried to speculate the Bills might. Bottom line is that the Bills have not.
  Even during his holdout the Bills office never questioned his play. They also did not following the season. They did let their starting center(s) and LG go.
  The Bills could have signed Peters to a much lower contract had they gotten busy this time last offseason. I do not doubt that missiing camp and OTA's had an effect on Peters play. the Bills are as responsible as Peters for this situation.
  

 

Let's get off this trade Peters BS and get him signed.

Again, you and the rest of "Pay Peters Camp" are right. He will get paid but it won't be by the Bills at his asking price. Did you guys forget who signs the checks at OBD? The highest paid player in Bills history will not be JPeters, so get used to #71 in a different uniform.

[KOKBILLS]

If the Bills can get a deal done, that gets them as starting LT, then fine. But, if not, I'd let Peters sit. Not to punish him, but simply to make the statement that they won't/can't be forced info a bad deal. The holdout hurt both sides, last year. Another one is likely to do the same. The Bills need to cover their bases, and make sure that position is filled, either way.

 

But, as far as Jason not budging from being the highest paid LT in the league, I think you are wrong. I am certain he wants to be AMONG the highest paid, though. I'm guessing he (and his agents) aren't negotiating until after the draft, so they can see what kind of $$ the top LT in the draft gets.

 

But, in the final analysis, I would have no problem constructing a contract that gives Peters the opportunity to be the highest (or among the highest) paid LTs in the game. Bonus for off-season workout program, bonus for attending OTAs, bonus for being in camp on time, etc.

 

I hope something can be worked out...I don't see how Trading Peters can be a good thing...I just think it may be the inevitable conclusion...We'll see...

[KD in CA]

He missed training camp because the two sides were unable to come to agreement

Actually, they did come to an agreement and Peters just refused to live up to his end of it.

 

I'd love to see this guy have a HOF career as the Bills LT, but remain very skeptical that he will ever be more than mediocre once he gets his huge payday.