Glass To The Arson Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 How Many Sacks Each LT Gave Up in 2009-2009 1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack 2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER 3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11) 3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks 3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks* (He missed first quarter of Philadelphia game because of a shoulder injury) 7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks 8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games) 8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (Only appeared in 12 games) 8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER 8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) 8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15) 13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks PRO BOWLER 13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER 15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks 15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games) 15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts) 18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game) 19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games) 20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks 21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game) 21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks 23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER 24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks 24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks 24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13) 27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks 28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks 29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks 30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games) Can Peters run blocking be that good? Heck no. Goes to show how much of a joke the pro bowl is. And to the ones here in defense to Bill Belichick... He might not have said Peters wasn't good enough to be on the Patriots... but I guarantee he wouldn't want Peters on his team. How do I know? It's common sense an idiot could figure out. This board is wayyyyyyyyyyy too narrow minded. Come out this Friday night in Buffalo and lets have a few drinks (and get off this website for awhile!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Sacks allowed is not a "fact," its an opinion. You can look at the play and say it was Peters, I can look at the play and say it was Dockery. It isn't like receptions; there's no disputing who caught the ball on a given play. The NFL does not keep sacks allowed as an official statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 stop throwing #'s out there. What if the running back missed the chip block? or a blitzing LB got by on his side with no help? please..... These stats are worthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 How Many Sacks Each LT Gave Up in 2009-2009 1.Ryan Clady, Denver 0.5 sacks T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games) Can Peters run blocking be that good? Heck no. Goes to show how much of a joke the pro bowl is. And to the ones here in defense to Bill Belichick... He might not have said Peters wasn't good enough to be on the Patriots... but I guarantee he wouldn't want Peters on his team. How do I know? It's common sense an idiot could figure out. I have no doubt you have it figured out. But making misleading quotes by a coach to make a point is something that, .. well .. an idiot might do. And I might have thought that Belichick would think that he could take this tremendous athlete and coach him up, but..... since you guaranteed he wouldn't want Peters, I will get those silly thoughts out of my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB Bull Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Sure, the "stat" is imprecise, but that does not make it a matter of opinion. There may be some interpretation involved, but even if we add a reasonable margin of error, Peters still looks bad. Let's be reasonably scientific here. Say we assume the statistic is so imprecise that we give a margin of error + or - 3 sacks. Does that sound reasonable? Now, the 15th ranked tackles gave up 4 sacks according to the chart. Peters gave up 11.5 according to the chart. Given that big margin of error, even in the best case Peters still isn't in the top half. I'm not one of the folks saying Peters is terrible. That's ridiculous. But it's also ridiculous to deny that he had a lousy year. The stats may not be exact, but there is a such a huge gap that they can tell us he wasn't near the top of his position in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Nice stats. But without knowing who compiled them, I have no reason to believe them. And I'm not exactly a great Jason Peters fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Sure, the "stat" is imprecise, but that does not make it a matter of opinion. There may be some interpretation involved, but even if we add a reasonable margin of error, Peters still looks bad. Let's be reasonably scientific here. Say we assume the statistic is so imprecise that we give a margin of error + or - 3 sacks. Does that sound reasonable? Now, the 15th ranked tackles gave up 4 sacks according to the chart. Peters gave up 11.5 according to the chart. Given that big margin of error, even in the best case Peters still isn't in the top half. I'm not one of the folks saying Peters is terrible. That's ridiculous. But it's also ridiculous to deny that he had a lousy year. The stats may not be exact, but there is a such a huge gap that they can tell us he wasn't near the top of his position in 2008. I think he was, at times. Late in the year before he shut it down, to be precise. The conventional wisdom is that he was out of shape/practice early in the year due to the holdout and rounded into form as the season went on. But using sacks alone to form an opinion on a lineman's play is sketchy, in any case. To compare it to baseball, you're using errors alone to judge a player's defense, when you ought to use errors in conjunction with fielding percentage. There is no way to use stats alone to form a worthy opinion on a lineman's play...hell, its hard enough to do it with quarterbacks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 What a waste of your time original poster. Linemen get judged far differently than skill position players though and this proves nothing. It doesn't take a football genius to see that Peters is a very good player, and has the potential to be the best LT the Bills have seen in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 How Many Sacks Each LT Gave Up in 2009-2009 1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack 2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER 3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11) 3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks 3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks* (He missed first quarter of Philadelphia game because of a shoulder injury) 7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks 8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games) 8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (Only appeared in 12 games) 8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER 8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) 8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15) 13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks PRO BOWLER 13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER 15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks 15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games) 15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts) 18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game) 19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games) 20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks 21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game) 21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks 23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER 24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks 24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks 24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13) 27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks 28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks 29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks 30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games) Can Peters run blocking be that good? Heck no. Goes to show how much of a joke the pro bowl is. And to the ones here in defense to Bill Belichick... He might not have said Peters wasn't good enough to be on the Patriots... but I guarantee he wouldn't want Peters on his team. How do I know? It's common sense an idiot could figure out. This board is wayyyyyyyyyyy too narrow minded. Come out this Friday night in Buffalo and lets have a few drinks (and get off this website for awhile!) It always amazes me, even though it happens every week or so, when somebody starts a new thread by posting a bunch of stuff - not one piece of which has been on this board less than a hundred times - and acting as if it's some revelation. If you've been off the net for the last six months or so, then I totally understand and support your post. If not, why not make your next post something about, say, the fact that a former Buffalo Bill once rushed 2000 yards in a season and that the Bills have - breaking news - signed Terrell Owens who is a wide reciever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Sure, the "stat" is imprecise, but that does not make it a matter of opinion. There may be some interpretation involved, but even if we add a reasonable margin of error, Peters still looks bad. Let's be reasonably scientific here. Say we assume the statistic is so imprecise that we give a margin of error + or - 3 sacks. Does that sound reasonable? Now, the 15th ranked tackles gave up 4 sacks according to the chart. Peters gave up 11.5 according to the chart. Given that big margin of error, even in the best case Peters still isn't in the top half. I'm not one of the folks saying Peters is terrible. That's ridiculous. But it's also ridiculous to deny that he had a lousy year. The stats may not be exact, but there is a such a huge gap that they can tell us he wasn't near the top of his position in 2008. A lousy year. Yup. Did you notice that he missed training camp? Think that might have something to do with it? And every time somebody posts this same set of stats - I'd guess it's been done 175 times, but I might well have missed a hundred or so - I invite the person to post the same stats for the year before. Strangely, not one person has taken me up on that. So, I'll invite you, UBBULL, and the OP, THEDRIZZ, to get up the guts and the energy to post the same stats for 2007. Come on, if you have the stones. Of course, I don't expect that you will, because that would show what Peters can do when he DOES go to training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 A lousy year. Yup. Did you notice that he missed training camp? Think that might have something to do with it? And every time somebody posts this same set of stats - I'd guess it's been done 175 times, but I might well have missed a hundred or so - I invite the person to post the same stats for the year before. Strangely, not one person has taken me up on that. So, I'll invite you, UBBULL, and the OP, THEDRIZZ, to get up the guts and the energy to post the same stats for 2007. Come on, if you have the stones. Of course, I don't expect that you will, because that would show what Peters can do when he DOES go to training camp. I'm not advocating either way... But let me ask this.... How many sacks with Edwards and how many sacks with Lossman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Based on those stats, let's triple his pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 The only "fact" that matters is this... The Bills are either going to make Peters the highest Paid LT in The NFL or they are going to Trade him...I think without a Deal that makes Him the Top Paid LT in Football Peters will never Play another Game for The Bills... OK well...maybe it's not a "fact" quite yet, but it's been My opinion since forever now and I don't see any movement one way or the other that is going to make Me re-think My stance on this mess...And just for the record I don't think the Bills will pony up the cash necessary to keep JP and He'll be Traded sometime before the 2009 NFL Draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanahan's Horseshoe Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 A lousy year. Yup. Did you notice that he missed training camp? Think that might have something to do with it? And every time somebody posts this same set of stats - I'd guess it's been done 175 times, but I might well have missed a hundred or so - I invite the person to post the same stats for the year before. Strangely, not one person has taken me up on that. So, I'll invite you, UBBULL, and the OP, THEDRIZZ, to get up the guts and the energy to post the same stats for 2007. Come on, if you have the stones. Of course, I don't expect that you will, because that would show what Peters can do when he DOES go to training camp. So showing up completely out of shape and unprepared is okay because he missed training camp? This ain't Baseball where guys get fat and then come to spring training to get into shape. Football, because of it's physical nature takes a year round conditioning effort. So who's fault is it that he didn't show up? He has one good season and all of a sudden he's Anthony Munoz and wants to get paid like a great LT? I think the easy way to get to the core of this argument and be as objective as possible is to simply ask the question, Does Jason Peters deserve the 11-12 million per year that he is wants? I say no because a guy that gets paid like that should be an absolute game changer. I think Peters is good but he is not even close to what Pace, Ogden or Jones were in their prime. And since those 3 guys are/were his great contemporaries he should be judged against them and he's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I'm not advocating either way... But let me ask this.... How many sacks with Edwards and how many sacks with Lossman? Many with both. More importantly, how many sacks early in the year and how many late? He was playing extremely well again late in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 A lousy year. Yup. Did you notice that he missed training camp? Think that might have something to do with it?And every time somebody posts this same set of stats - I'd guess it's been done 175 times, but I might well have missed a hundred or so - I invite the person to post the same stats for the year before. Strangely, not one person has taken me up on that. So, I'll invite you, UBBULL, and the OP, THEDRIZZ, to get up the guts and the energy to post the same stats for 2007. Come on, if you have the stones. Of course, I don't expect that you will, because that would show what Peters can do when he DOES go to training camp. Did you notice why he missed training camp? Becuase he is an underachieving whiner. And those who say these stats don't mean anything, is obviously not facing reality. Because he missed training camp could make him a little less effective for the first 3 or 4 games maybe, but he was still giving up game changing sacks in weeks 13 and later, which missing training camp should have nothing to do with. It isn't like he was learning to do something new? If he is this great Pro Bowl tackle, then all missing training camp should do is make him less in shape, and if he was a dedicated professional, he would have kept himself in shape on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Many with both. More importantly, how many sacks early in the year and how many late? He was playing extremely well again late in the year. Did you see the game at the Meadowlands? Obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofton80 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well said Thurm. Why does every network isolate on Peters matchup with a replay? Maybe its because most of the positive plays are run to his side. The fact I rely is what I see with my own eyes. Peters shoves around his man again and again. Jason Peters is the best football player on this team. Is he better with camp and conditioning? Of course. I do know he and every otherlineman gives up a lot less sacks when Edwards is playing QB vs JP. That is a fact. A lousy year. Yup. Did you notice that he missed training camp? Think that might have something to do with it? And every time somebody posts this same set of stats - I'd guess it's been done 175 times, but I might well have missed a hundred or so - I invite the person to post the same stats for the year before. Strangely, not one person has taken me up on that. So, I'll invite you, UBBULL, and the OP, THEDRIZZ, to get up the guts and the energy to post the same stats for 2007. Come on, if you have the stones. Of course, I don't expect that you will, because that would show what Peters can do when he DOES go to training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanahan's Horseshoe Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Well said Thurm. Why does every network isolate on Peters matchup with a replay? Maybe its because most of the positive plays are run to his side. The fact I rely is what I see with my own eyes. Peters shoves around his man again and again. Jason Peters is the best football player on this team. Is he better with camp and conditioning? Of course. I do know he and every otherlineman gives up a lot less sacks when Edwards is playing QB vs JP. That is a fact. Again, is he worth 11-12 million per? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glass To The Arson Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Did you see the game at the Meadowlands? Obviously not. How about penalties? This guy is a vet and still commits more penalties than I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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