Bills appear to be done in FA

[Bill from NYC]

Funny, most seem to agree with me that QB play was more of a factor than our D...especially considering our offense was ranked considerably lower than our D which lost 2 key players early in the year...

 

And anyone who looks at 4 TD's to 16 turnovers and doesnt see that as why we lost truly has no concept of football and isnt worth having a football discussion with. First rule of football is dont turn the ball over...Second rule of football is dont turn the ball over...any guess to what the third rule is?

 

LOL.....most of whom? The people that would also agree with this gem from yesterday:

 

>>>>>Might be a good option for him...he can likely start and will have good coaches there. If he plays well, he may very well play himself right back into a qb competition in the NFL or even a starting gig. ...<<<<<

 

That was wonderful, subtle excuses (coaching) and all. I did notice that your numbers list a very bad set of games for Trent. Who were the coaches?

 

It is a shame that you can't resist these silly, subtle attacks on Trent. There is nothing to hide here. If you think that he sucks, say so! What is stopping you? We will survive a guy named Alphadog attacking our quarterback. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we will come out of it OK so blast away, but please stop with the utter nonsense that our defense was good, because it wasn't. It sucked at virtually every facet of play as I listed above. Disagree? Please tell me where our defense was good. No again, they were piss poor, and many times forced both quarterbacks to shoulder too great a burden.

 

What makes your posts so weird is the fact that if you could get past this silly tangent, you would provide some good football discussion, not to say that you shoould care what I think.

[VOR]

QB play was a big problem last year. Trent has a lot to prove and has no more excuses.

[The Dean]

Funny, most seem to agree with me that QB play was more of a factor than our D...especially considering our offense was ranked considerably lower than our D which lost 2 key players early in the year...

 

 

First of all, the offense was a bigger problem, overall, last year than was the defense. Poor QB play was a problem in the offense. Poor coaching was also a problem...a bigger problem, IMO.

 

Now, on a VERY poorly conceived and coached offense, how do you really start evaluating the QB? I said the same thing when JP was taking shots here. Think of it this way. Way back when, Tampa Bay was losing just about every game. They would have done better had they had better play from their QB. So, should we have assumed that the problem was Steve Young? Clearly Young was not the problem there. But, if you use your analysis, you probably would have come to that conclusion.

 

Now, I'm not suggesting Trent will become Steve Young. I'm suggesting that a lot of QBs would look like crap in the Bills offense from last year.

[Bill from NYC]

First of all, the offense was a bigger problem, overall, last year than was the defense. Poor QB play was a problem in the offense. Poor coaching was also a problem...a bigger problem, IMO.

 

Now, on a VERY poorly conceived and coached offense, how do you really start evaluating the QB? I said the same thing when JP was taking shots here. Think of it this way. Way back when, Tampa Bay was losing just about every game. They would have done better had they had better play from their QB. So, should we have assumed that the problem was Steve Young? Clearly Young was not the problem there. But, if you use your analysis, you probably would have come to that conclusion.

 

Now, I'm not suggesting Trent will become Steve Young. I'm suggesting that a lot of QBs would look like crap in the Bills offense from last year.

 

You make some good points. The thing is, I fail to see how a rational fan can think that the Bills defense was good. Losing Schobel hurt, but they were pretty bad in every phase of football.

 

The above has nothing to do with trent or even JP directly, but it stands to reason that ANY qb would have an easier time with a good defense. I am thinking that McMahon would not have won a superbowl with Peyton Manning's Colts. Do you see where I'm going?

[Magox]

LOL.....most of whom? The people that would also agree with this gem from yesterday:

 

>>>>>Might be a good option for him...he can likely start and will have good coaches there. If he plays well, he may very well play himself right back into a qb competition in the NFL or even a starting gig. ...<<<<<

 

That was wonderful, subtle excuses (coaching) and all. I did notice that your numbers list a very bad set of games for Trent. Who were the coaches?

 

It is a shame that you can't resist these silly, subtle attacks on Trent. There is nothing to hide here. If you think that he sucks, say so! What is stopping you? We will survive a guy named Alphadog attacking our quarterback. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we will come out of it OK so blast away, but please stop with the utter nonsense that our defense was good, because it wasn't. It sucked at virtually every facet of play as I listed above. Disagree? Please tell me where our defense was good. No again, they were piss poor, and many times forced both quarterbacks to shoulder too great a burden.

 

What makes your posts so weird is the fact that if you could get past this silly tangent, you would provide some good football discussion, not to say that you should care what I think.

 

Didn't you know Bill, guys like Big Cat, Vor and another user are considered "most"?

 

Ya these guys are real gem's. Btw Vor, good one with the Tim Graham post, you didn't look like an azz at all

 

Why bother Bill, Alpha is going to continue to Hijack threads with his obsessive crusade against Trent. I called it on the last hijacking he committed on the Cutler one.

 

Funny how this thread was about the Bills appearing to be done in FA, then he came in with his usual long winded criticism of Trent.

 

Why should we surprised?

[K-9]

You make some good points. The thing is, I fail to see how a rational fan can think that the Bills defense was good. Losing Schobel hurt, but they were pretty bad in every phase of football.

 

The above has nothing to do with trent or even JP directly, but it stands to reason that ANY qb would have an easier time with a good defense. I am thinking that McMahon would not have won a superbowl with Peyton Manning's Colts. Do you see where I'm going?

 

When I think back to those 10 minute drives in the 4th qtr given up to the Phins and Jets it makes me cringe. I suppose one could try to argue that they had been out on the field such a long time and got tired but up until the 4th qtr. of those games the TOP was pretty even. Untimely penalties, poor play, and the inability to make a critical stop on 3rd down showed how bad our D let us down in those games.

 

In defense of the defense, it would have been more fun to see them play with more leads, to make teams more one dimensional. But for the most part, they were very rarely in mangeable 2nd and 3rd down situations where they didn't have to play it honest.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bill from NYC]

When I think back to those 10 minute drives in the 4th qtr given up to the Phins and Jets it makes me cringe. I suppose one could try to argue that they had been out on the field such a long time and got tired but up until the 4th qtr. of those games the TOP was pretty even. Untimely penalties, poor play, and the inability to make a critical stop on 3rd down showed how bad our D let us down in those games.

 

In defense of the defense, it would have been more fun to see them play with more leads, to make teams more one dimensional. But for the most part, they were very rarely in mangeable 2nd and 3rd down situations where they didn't have to play it honest.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Oh yeah, but many of the Bills wins were come from behind as well. Lets face it....we have 1 good DE and he was hurt. We have one good DT; the rest are at backup level at best. We have flashy first round defensive backs that are all but useless with a weak front and playing 50 yards away from the l.o.s.

 

We can point all the fingers we want, but it was Bills management who failed to provide us with a strong team where it counts, and did provide us with an absolute horror for a head coach.

[The Dean]

You make some good points. The thing is, I fail to see how a rational fan can think that the Bills defense was good. Losing Schobel hurt, but they were pretty bad in every phase of football.

 

The above has nothing to do with trent or even JP directly, but it stands to reason that ANY qb would have an easier time with a good defense. I am thinking that McMahon would not have won a superbowl with Peyton Manning's Colts. Do you see where I'm going?

 

 

The Bills D wasn't good. But, the offense was worse, by most objective measures. Here is where the Bills O and D ranked, last year:

 

Total Offense/Defense: 25 vs 14

Points Scored/Allowed: 23 vs 14

Russhing Gained/Allowed: 14 vs 22

Passing Gained/Allowed: 22 vs 13

 

I hated the passive defense the Bills used, last year, and think the team plays better when they are aggressive. But, I think it's reasonable to assume the scheme kept the team in games, on occasion.

 

Of course these stats don't tell the whole story. The defense was bad on 3rd down, and in clutch situations. Then again, so was the offense.

 

As far as the Colts go, I disagree. That team is driven by the offense, IMO. I think the only way that team wins a SB, is if they have a top flight QB. The O makes the D look better, in their case, as the opposing team is almost always playing from a deficit.

[Fingon]

The Bills D wasn't good. But, the offense was worse, by most objective measures. Here is where the Bills O and D ranked, last year:

 

Total Offense/Defense: 25 vs 14

Points Scored/Allowed: 23 vs 14

Russhing Gained/Allowed: 14 vs 22

Passing Gained/Allowed: 22 vs 13

 

I hated the passive defense the Bills used, last year, and think the team plays better when they are aggressive. But, I think it's reasonable to assume the scheme kept the team in games, on occasion.

 

Of course these stats don't tell the whole story. The defense was bad on 3rd down, and in clutch situations. Then again, so was the offense.

 

As far as the Colts go, I disagree. That team is driven by the offense, IMO. I think the only way that team wins a SB, is if they have a top flight QB. The O makes the D look better, in their case, as the opposing team is almost always playing from a deficit.

The Bills D was 9th in the NFL on 3rd down % at 36.1. The offense was 17th at 39.9%.

 

Even with a bad pass rush, we were still pretty good on 3rd down.

[Bill from NYC]

As far as the Colts go, I disagree. That team is driven by the offense, IMO. I think the only way that team wins a SB, is if they have a top flight QB. The O makes the D look better, in their case, as the opposing team is almost always playing from a deficit.

 

That is what I was trying to say. McMahon couldn't have moved the Colts the way Manning did imo. But, McMahon had one of the greatest defenses ever, so it mattered less. The Bears won the superbowl even though McMahon wasn't great.

Manning is great.

[Bill from NYC]

The Bills D was 9th in the NFL on 3rd down % at 36.1. The offense was 17th at 39.9%.

 

Even with a bad pass rush, we were still pretty good on 3rd down.

 

They were bad when it counted. I watched every play of every game and in the clutch, teams were making first downs in the air and on the ground.

[The Dean]

The Bills D was 9th in the NFL on 3rd down % at 36.1. The offense was 17th at 39.9%.

 

Even with a bad pass rush, we were still pretty good on 3rd down.

 

 

Wow, that's a shocker.

 

Thanks

[The Dean]

That is what I was trying to say. McMahon couldn't have moved the Colts the way Manning did imo. But, McMahon had one of the greatest defenses ever, so it mattered less. The Bears won the superbowl even though McMahon wasn't great.

Manning is great.

 

 

Gotcha. My bad...I read it wrong/

[Sisyphean Bills]

The Bills D wasn't good. But, the offense was worse, by most objective measures. Here is where the Bills O and D ranked, last year:

 

Total Offense/Defense: 25 vs 14

Points Scored/Allowed: 23 vs 14

Russhing Gained/Allowed: 14 vs 22

Passing Gained/Allowed: 22 vs 13

 

I hated the passive defense the Bills used, last year, and think the team plays better when they are aggressive. But, I think it's reasonable to assume the scheme kept the team in games, on occasion.

 

Of course these stats don't tell the whole story. The defense was bad on 3rd down, and in clutch situations. Then again, so was the offense.

 

As far as the Colts go, I disagree. That team is driven by the offense, IMO. I think the only way that team wins a SB, is if they have a top flight QB. The O makes the D look better, in their case, as the opposing team is almost always playing from a deficit.

The defense wasn't as good as that 14th ranking. They had no pass rush but did manage to keep teams in front of them and forced them to march the ball down the field, melting the clock, and giving both themselves and the opponents fewer opportunities. (The glories of the Tampa 2 defense. Yey!) And, yes, the offense was terrible for the most part. It showed some signs of life in the Chiefs game and in some other drives here and there, but it was mostly dysfunctional. Finally, the jury is still out on Trent Edwards. He has started 20+ games, which is enough for some people to crucify him, but he still hasn't shown that he can execute in the red zone consistently enough to win, let alone excel to the point of leading a team deep into the playoffs. And, of course, I couldn't agree with you more about coaching. Our staff consists of noobs and greenhorns, and while they are all working hard, sometimes they get their diapers yanked off and bottoms wiped by the more experienced & bigger boys.

 

As far as the Colts, yes, they are Peyton's team. Unfortunately for him, if he was on a more complete team (see John Elway early years) then he'd have racked up more Super Bowls than 1. Indeed, the "Colts can't win the big one" is reminiscent of some other Bill Polian teams. (Don't get me wrong, I'd take Bill over the 3 stooges we have now in a heartbeat.)

[Bill from NYC]

The defense wasn't as good as that 14th ranking. They had no pass rush but did manage to keep teams in front of them and forced them to march the ball down the field, melting the clock, and giving both themselves and the opponents fewer opportunities. And, yes, the offense was terrible for the most part. It showed some signs of life in the Chiefs game and in some other drives here and there, but it was mostly dysfunctional. Finally, the jury is still out on Trent Edwards. He has started 20+ games, which is enough for some people to crucify him, but he still hasn't shown that he can execute in the red zone consistently enough to win, let alone excel to the point of leading a team deep into the playoffs. And, of course, I couldn't agree with you more about coaching. Our staff consists of noobs and greenhorns, and while they are all working hard, sometimes they get their diapers yanked off and bottoms wiped by the more experienced & bigger boys.

 

Good post!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Good post!

Thanks. I agree with Brian on the QB evaluation point to a certain extent. Steve Young would not be in the HoF now if he had stayed in Leeman Bennett's offense his entire career. People that didn't appreciate the game rode SY mercilessly in Tampa and blamed him for their pathetic franchise, a franchise that was dead from the neck up. It wasn't all him. And neither was his great success in SF entirely his doing.

[Alphadawg7]

LOL.....most of whom? The people that would also agree with this gem from yesterday:

 

>>>>>Might be a good option for him...he can likely start and will have good coaches there. If he plays well, he may very well play himself right back into a qb competition in the NFL or even a starting gig. ...<<<<<

 

That was wonderful, subtle excuses (coaching) and all. I did notice that your numbers list a very bad set of games for Trent. Who were the coaches?

 

It is a shame that you can't resist these silly, subtle attacks on Trent. There is nothing to hide here. If you think that he sucks, say so! What is stopping you? We will survive a guy named Alphadog attacking our quarterback. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we will come out of it OK so blast away, but please stop with the utter nonsense that our defense was good, because it wasn't. It sucked at virtually every facet of play as I listed above. Disagree? Please tell me where our defense was good. No again, they were piss poor, and many times forced both quarterbacks to shoulder too great a burden.

 

What makes your posts so weird is the fact that if you could get past this silly tangent, you would provide some good football discussion, not to say that you shoould care what I think.

 

You really do crack me up with the statement at the end…”if I could get past this silly tangent I could provide some good football discussion” I find it hilarious because that’s ALL I have ever posted on Trent, straight football discussion only...Never have I slammed the guy, Never have I said he cant get better, Never have I said we should dump him for some rookie, Never have called him names or outright bashed him...all I have ever done is discuss his ACTUAL on field play. That’s it…

 

So if you want to consider his stats as bashing him, then call Trent and complain to him, because I didn't play the games for him and I didn't make up those stats.

 

So for the last and final time, I DO LIKE THE KID, and I think he HAS potential...BUT, he did NOT play good enough last year and that, in my opinion, is clearly why we missed the playoffs. I played football through college, and let me say, its VERY difficult to win if the offense keeps turning the ball over and isn't scoring many points when they dont...and the NFL is light years harder than college.

 

PS: If you read my original post in this thread, it points out how BOTH of our QB’s struggled, not just Trent. And it was in response to the OP saying we didnt do enough in FA because TO wasn't enough. I think TO is enough, and I showed the poor production at QB as proof because TO will be a big addition for Trent because of the style of play matches so well with Trents game. I also said I think we make the playoffs because of it…

 

So once again, the stats are on what really happened last year, but that has ZERO to do with what I think he is capable of this year, something you and Magox seem to have a hard time understanding...

 

Oh, and I never said the defense was "good", I said it played good enough to win the game. This isnt even debateable because we were in EVERY game but one despite not scoring many offensive points. Add into the fact that we lost key players because of injury, and our offense got worse as the year went on, and they did a decent job. With more offensive production and our players healthy, the unit we have now could be top 10 and they were before the injuries and the offensive tanked.