The Big Cat Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I say more positive than negative. I think he carries too much intangible baggage. I say more positive than negative because: He didn't prove himself to be indispensable last year. Issues pertaining to contracts/his commitment seem to be cooking up in similar ways this year. What we get in return could be used to plug two or three other holes. I don't like his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I voted for both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 Wow, 8 positives to 7 negatives. I'm quite surprised it's that close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 If we get equal value in return, by definition, isn't that neither positive nor negative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I say more positive than negative. I think he carries too much intangible baggage. I say more positive than negative because: He didn't prove himself to be indispensable last year. Issues pertaining to contracts/his commitment seem to be cooking up in similar ways this year. What we get in return could be used to plug two or three other holes. I don't like his face. racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 If we get equal value in return, by definition, isn't that neither positive nor negative? You're thinking about this way too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 First off, I don't think he's all that at LT. He may be the best we currently have (although, I think Walker filled in admirably the first two games) but compared to other left tackles around the league, he's maybe in the top 10. Secondly, if he pulls this contract bullsleet now, who's to say he won't do it again two seasons from now (see Bruce Smith). I say, trade him off to Philly and get one of their 1st round picks. Considering this guy was an undrafted FA and was paid close to minimum for his first few years, I think the Bills have already gotten their money's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I say more positive than negative. I think he carries too much intangible baggage. I say more positive than negative because: He didn't prove himself to be indispensable last year. Issues pertaining to contracts/his commitment seem to be cooking up in similar ways this year. What we get in return could be used to plug two or three other holes. I don't like his face. When the rest of the league looks for players to anchor the left side of their line we possibly turn one away without a clear answer to backfill. Not to mention we have no LG and as of yet no backup center. Seems stupid to me to create a problem rather than solve one. So Peters is not good at PR... he is a very good LT. Why do you think Tuna took a LT @ #1 last year? because it is a building block position on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 First off, I don't think he's all that at LT. He may be the best we currently have (although, I think Walker filled in admirably the first two games) but compared to other left tackles around the league, he's maybe in the top 10. Secondly, if he pulls this contract bullsleet now, who's to say he won't do it again two seasons from now (see Bruce Smith). I say, trade him off to Philly and get one of their 1st round picks. Considering this guy was an undrafted FA and was paid close to minimum for his first few years, I think the Bills have already gotten their money's worth. I'm convinced that those saying we'd wilt without Peters either a.) didn't watch the games he missed last year and don't realize there wasn't a big of a drop off without him or b.) are choosing to ignore that reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Glad to see that the cognoscenti are winning over the unintelligentsia. But not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cåblelady Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 He's still a phat phuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 First off, I don't think he's all that at LT. He may be the best we currently have (although, I think Walker filled in admirably the first two games) but compared to other left tackles around the league, he's maybe in the top 10. Secondly, if he pulls this contract bullsleet now, who's to say he won't do it again two seasons from now (see Bruce Smith). I say, trade him off to Philly and get one of their 1st round picks. Considering this guy was an undrafted FA and was paid close to minimum for his first few years, I think the Bills have already gotten their money's worth. Thats what I have been thinking. We dont really lose anything. He was undrafted and is turning into a big pain in the a#$. If we can get a number one and maybe a 3 or 4 I would be all over it. If not I would let him rot the next 2 years....he is still under contract and then year 3 slap the franchis tag on him. He forgets we are really in the drivers seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 He's still a phat phuck. Tea Bag him LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 First off, I don't think he's all that at LT. He may be the best we currently have (although, I think Walker filled in admirably the first two games) but compared to other left tackles around the league, he's maybe in the top 10. Secondly, if he pulls this contract bullsleet now, who's to say he won't do it again two seasons from now (see Bruce Smith). I say, trade him off to Philly and get one of their 1st round picks. Considering this guy was an undrafted FA and was paid close to minimum for his first few years, I think the Bills have already gotten their money's worth. Can anyone say that we shouldn't have paid Bruce Smith that extra money either? Not saying that Peters is the kind of player that Bruce was (not by a long shot) but IMO both are worth the money. Peters was playing better the second half of the season, and still has huge upside. When he plays to his potential, he's the best LT in football. However, if he's a top 10 LT he should be compensated like one. Right now he has the 21st rated salary for LTs, meaning that there are also RTs that make more than him. In fact we have one on the team right now. In fact, last season, Peters made the lowest salary of any starter on our OL. Our best OL had the lowest salary. PErhaps there's something wrong with that? Maybe not, since his play did fall off, but he does deserve a raise. 11.5M, no, but he should probably get something in the 9.25M range. And everyone that says we should just trade him for picks, where are we going to magically dig up another LT and an LG. You want two rookies starting on TE's blind side. If you thought people were blaming the QB for stuff last season, just wait. The first three games and they'll be roaming the streets with axes and pitchforks coming for Trent's head with two rookies on the left side. TE won't stand a chance. The fact is, we have other holes on the team that we need to address, particularly at the DE and OLB positions. We don't need to create more needs at key positions by getting rid of top ten players. And any tackly that you can find to play for Peters' current salary is going to be a significant drop off in talent. Let's see where this thing goes over the next couple of weeks. It's early in negotiations and we all know there's no way Peters is getting 11.5 mil per season. But 9.25-10 Mil I don't think is unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Thats what I have been thinking. We dont really lose anything. He was undrafted and is turning into a big pain in the a#$. If we can get a number one and maybe a 3 or 4 I would be all over it. If not I would let him rot the next 2 years....he is still under contract and then year 3 slap the franchis tag on him. He forgets we are really in the drivers seat. If he isn't "all that," why would a team give us a 1st and a 3rd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 If he isn't "all that," why would a team give us a 1st and a 3rd? Beacuse some teams are in dire need of a solid LT and they are hard to come by. I dont think he is all that either but he is one of the better options for some teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Can anyone say that we shouldn't have paid Bruce Smith that extra money either? Not saying that Peters is the kind of player that Bruce was (not by a long shot) but IMO both are worth the money. Peters was playing better the second half of the season, and still has huge upside. When he plays to his potential, he's the best LT in football. However, if he's a top 10 LT he should be compensated like one. Right now he has the 21st rated salary for LTs, meaning that there are also RTs that make more than him. In fact we have one on the team right now. In fact, last season, Peters made the lowest salary of any starter on our OL. Our best OL had the lowest salary. PErhaps there's something wrong with that? Maybe not, since his play did fall off, but he does deserve a raise. 11.5M, no, but he should probably get something in the 9.25M range. And everyone that says we should just trade him for picks, where are we going to magically dig up another LT and an LG. You want two rookies starting on TE's blind side. If you thought people were blaming the QB for stuff last season, just wait. The first three games and they'll be roaming the streets with axes and pitchforks coming for Trent's head with two rookies on the left side. TE won't stand a chance. The fact is, we have other holes on the team that we need to address, particularly at the DE and OLB positions. We don't need to create more needs at key positions by getting rid of top ten players. And any tackly that you can find to play for Peters' current salary is going to be a significant drop off in talent. Let's see where this thing goes over the next couple of weeks. It's early in negotiations and we all know there's no way Peters is getting 11.5 mil per season. But 9.25-10 Mil I don't think is unreasonable. I believe...and dont quote me on this...but the Bills offered him a contract around 8 mil a season. That by not standard is chump change. ANd he was under contract making 4.5 mil per year. He already had his contract re structured once. And now we have made him another good offer. At some point a team has to say enough is enough. Jason Peters isnt bigger than the Bills or the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fewell733 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 my problem with answering the poll is what is equal value? It would have to more than just fill the hole left in his absence. I am not comfortable using the 11th pick on a LT and expecting him to start effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 It is interesting to see how evenly split this is ... the multitude of threads on this subject tend to be very negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Beacuse some teams are in dire need of a solid LT and they are hard to come by. I dont think he is all that either but he is one of the better options for some teams. I agree....some teams including ours. History has taught us (except perhaps Jauron) thaT the Bills cannot win with weak lines. It won't happen anywhere, let alone in the elements of WNY. We cannot afford to lose our best one, even if he is only here due to luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 He's going to cry about his contract, doubt he shows up for camp AGAIN this year, which probably means he'll play like crap again. I would like to see him traded for quality picks that could really plug some holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Beacuse some teams are in dire need of a solid LT and they are hard to come by. I dont think he is all that either but he is one of the better options for some teams. like we aren't in dire need? do some people actually think before they post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I had to go more negative since I have no idea what our options are without peters. Our line stinks and we need help and without a LT that can pass block no way to get owens or lee the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenwick Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I agree....some teams including ours. History has taught us that (except perhaps Jauron) the Bills cannot win with weak lines. It won't happen anywhere, let alone in the elements of WNY. We cannot afford to lose our best one, even if he is only here due to luck. The Bills if they make a trade for Peters will probably give him away........What is a LT who made the pro bowl two years running, and voted the Best young tackle in the league worth? Last year he laid back wanting a new contract... When he wants to be he is the best LT in the league game in and game out... He should be paid so. What is he now making? 3 to 4 million when other good ones are making double or more. Philly knows what they are getting and that is why they will push the trade... He is worth a lot but the Bills will excect anything I say sign Peters and get it over with... But the Bills history tells us different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 The Bills if they make a trade for Peters will probably give him away........What is a LT who made the pro bowl two years running, and voted the Best young tackle in the league worth? Last year he laid back wanting a new contract... When he wants to be he is the best LT in the league game in and game out... He should be paid so. What is he now making? 3 to 4 million when other good ones are making double or more. Philly knows what they are getting and that is why they will push the trade... He is worth a lot but the Bills will excect anything I say sign Peters and get it over with... But the Bills history tells us different... I think the Bills will pay him a contract of $10 Mill a year with incentives that could possibly take him to $11-12 Mill a year. I don't see the Bills trading away unless they get a really sweet deal. They know that we have a lot invested in this season, with Jauron, T.O, Trent and the desperate Bills fans. We have him for $4Million this year, the Bills FO have the leverage on this deal. If we don't trade him during the draft, which I hope to God we don't, then I see him coming into camp and trying to renogotiate a deal. We'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazy8321 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I'm going to throw it out there because no one has yet. Peters = TO A difference would be that Peters continues to be a recurring problem within our organization(small market) and not in the national media like you find TO. Should also mention that we have heard very little solid evidence about what kind of person Peters is. I havn't heard one story of how someone here met him at a charity event or anything of that nature. I know that most of the problems in Buffalo get dealed with behind closed doors. Maybe it's a small market thing and it doesn't get the coverage, or maybe RW said he will give spankings to those that talk to the media... McGahee, like someone said earlier, was gone pretty quick after the "move to Toronto" quote. I know this is aside a bit from the actual topic but it relates in the fact of "More positive than negative" or visa versa. I guess I'm on the fence until I know more about Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 It is interesting to see how evenly split this is ... the multitude of threads on this subject tend to be very negative. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I agree....some teams including ours. History has taught us that (except perhaps Jauron) the Bills cannot win with weak lines. It won't happen anywhere, let alone in the elements of WNY. We cannot afford to lose our best one, even if he is only here due to luck. great point...keeping him would be good and the o line is very important, especially in nov/dec. BUt is he worth 11 mil? Im not sure about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia Bill Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 great point...keeping him would be good and the o line is very important, especially in nov/dec. BUt is he worth 11 mil? Im not sure about that. It's thinking like that has prevented us from having a solid O'line since the early 90's. We can never believe anyone is worth THAT much, so we keep paying less than great salaries, and getting less than great results. At a certain point you've got to make some gambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 My whole beef with the Peter's thing is this: he is under contract. Forget all the crap about "What's his value to the o-line?" & "How much money should he be paid?". Yada, yada, yada... He was only in the second year of a five year contract. At least get your greedy ass into camp, help your team, and increase your visual value by trying to look like a good guy/team player. He got bit with the selfish bug for two reasons. First, he made the pro-bowl the year before (deservedly so) and second, Dockery was way overpaid which made Peters resentful. I agree that Jason should be paid more but not as the highest LT in the league and not for pulling the crap that he's doing. If he doesn't want to play ball, then sit for the season, you selfish bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 My whole beef with the Peter's thing is this: he is under contract. Forget all the crap about "What's his value to the o-line?" & "How much money should he be paid?". Yada, yada, yada...He was only in the second year of a five year contract. At least get your greedy ass into camp, help your team, and increase your visual value by trying to look like a good guy/team player. He got bit with the selfish bug for two reasons. First, he made the pro-bowl the year before (deservedly so) and second, Dockery was way overpaid which made Peters resentful. I agree that Jason should be paid more but not as the highest LT in the league and not for pulling the crap that he's doing. If he doesn't want to play ball, then sit for the season, you selfish bastard. Makes you wonder how much Peters' negotiations played a factor in Dockery getting cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 great point...keeping him would be good and the o line is very important, especially in nov/dec. BUt is he worth 11 mil? Im not sure about that. It makes me wonder what sort of contract people think he would be getting from his new team if we trade him. Any team trading for him will likely make him one of the highest paid players in the league. Where is the logic in thinking some other team would value Peters to the point of letting go at least a 1st round pick plus a massive contract.....yet he is not worth a massive contract from the Bills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 .....and not for pulling the crap that he's doing. If he doesn't want to play ball, then sit for the season, you selfish bastard. What sort of crap is he pulling? He held out last year(which is not uncommon)......he was told his contract would be re-worked for this year.....and now they are trying to re-work the contract. What is it you are imagining he is doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Frog Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 What sort of crap is he pulling? He held out last year(which is not uncommon)......he was told his contract would be re-worked for this year.....and now they are trying to re-work the contract. What is it you are imagining he is doing? I'm not imagining anything. He wants to be the highest paid LT in the league. Considering he started out as a project and was probably paid accordingly, I think he's just trying to recoup what he thought was lost potential income. Welcome to the real world, Jason. Perform consistently for a duration and eventually you'll be compensated. Look at Thomas Vanek of the Sabres. He was underpaid but kept playing and didn't threaten to holdout. Eventually, he got a nice contract offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaikotic Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 It makes me wonder what sort of contract people think he would be getting from his new team if we trade him. Any team trading for him will likely make him one of the highest paid players in the league. Where is the logic in thinking some other team would value Peters to the point of letting go at least a 1st round pick plus a massive contract.....yet he is not worth a massive contract from the Bills? TY Dibs...thats the same way I feel about it...any LT Buffalo brings in to try to fill the spot, if theyre looking for one with comparable skills, will cost almost the same money Peters is asking for now...people keep saying that hes under contract and he needs to play out that contract and then be paid...hes got what, 2 years left on that contract...what do you think a probowl LT will be paid in 2 more seasons..I'd bet its 15mil / year...all those who say dont pay him 10 - 11.5 now, will you like the 15mil he asks for in 2 years when thats going to be the norm for a probowl LT?...what happens if the Lions grab a LT in pick 1 like some say they might...Longs contract will be smaller than what the Lions will have to pay...this, along with a possable 3 more LT being taken in the top 10 is going to drive the prices of LT up...I for one dont like the Bills creating a new hole and especially at the spot this will be at...I also read that ppl thought the 1st 2 games Peters missed he wasnt felt missed...who did Buffalo play when Peters was gone?..crap teams...next season is going to be a lot harder...we're going to need a LT like Peters...I can only hope that Buffalo paying him will settle him down..I feel it will..Peters never gave Buffalo any trouble untill they brought in Dockerey and his payday..I think that along with Peters seeing how Buffalo overpaid Kelsay and a few others might be why hes acting the way he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manateefan Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 He had a good season, voted to the Pro Bowl. Held out, played mediocre but still got Pro Bowl and didn't deserve it. Hasn't provenh himself consistently. Still has time left on contract. Maybe plug in som incentives. Play better, get more money instead of just giving more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBills Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 i say good riddance. lets get another 1st round pick(alex mack) and hopefully another first day pick, ill take a 3rd round though. ive definitely had enough of this a-holes unwavering arrogance. he is not what he thinks he is. he is good but not elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 if we can get fair value or higher, TRADE HIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Beacuse some teams are in dire need of a solid LT and they are hard to come by. I dont think he is all that either but he is one of the better options for some teams. he is the only option the Bills have so I guess he has value to the Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 great point...keeping him would be good and the o line is very important, especially in nov/dec. BUt is he worth 11 mil? Im not sure about that. you are correct - it is a much wiser investment to spend that kind of money on high motor white DL guys who can't tackle or rush the passer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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