OFF SEASON OL SHAKEUP

[DeeRay]

I think most of us will agree the OL is still a concern after 4 years of Teflon Tom's reign.

 

So here are some questions. What are the answers?

 

Is Jonas Jennings gone?

 

Will Teague take over at LT?

 

Will/can Jason Bannan make the swith to the OL during the off season?

 

Is Tucker the answer at center?

 

Who might be the likely FA O lineman the Bills might pickup?

 

Do Sobieski, Pucillo, McFarland figure in the mix?

[Beerball]

I think most of us will agree the OL is still a concern after 4 years of Teflon Tom's reign.

 

Is Jonas Jennings gone?

 

Will Teague take over at LT?

 

Is Tucker the answer at center?

 

Do Sobieski, Pucillo, McFarland figure in the mix?

96343[/snapback]

My guess yes, Jonas is gone. Someone will make a big mistake and throw a ton of cash his way.

 

Teague--barring a FA signing yes

 

Tucker--seems to be doing well

 

Those three are gone.

 

One for you...do you move Williams to guard? If you do, that leaves two new tackles next year.

[DeeRay]

One for you...do you move Williams to guard? If you do, that leaves two new tackles next year.

 

Good one... I hadn't thought of that possibility? Could Williams play LG... because Villarial, it would seem to me, owns the RG spot...at least for now. Plus... if I drink the teflon Tom Koolaid, his comments from yesterday would be favorable for Mike to come back at RT. And... would we consider re-signing Jonas at a reasonable salary and moving him back to RT?

[Guest Guest_keithg_*]

another concern is Marcus Price...he is good when he plays, but he also gets dinged up a bit and he is not a spring chicken...I think he could start at either tackle spot next year but we better have a youngster ready to step in if he goes down.

[Bill from NYC]

I am thinking that the team needs one free agent, and at least two draft picks in this particular off season. It would help if the draft picks were able to play football, unlike recent linemen drafted by TD.

 

When the OL is weak enough to need defensive tackles to block, it is time for an overhaul.

[ICE]

I say move MW to guard and be done with it. He is too big for tackle.

 

Sign a FA Center if possible, if not draft one worth a damn!

 

Work on Price and Teague at tackles. keep the depth we have.

[ICE]

YUP.

 

IMO, resign Price and name him the starting RT.

 

If Big Mike keeps playing well, keep him at tackle but, move him to LT, if his play downfalls at Tackle, move him to LG.

 

Draft a Center(Ben Wilkerson, LSU) with our first pick in the 2nd round. And, draft a LG or LT in the 3rd round depending on where Mike Williams plays.

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I've still gotta say no to MW being a tackle. He is too BIG for OT's these days. Pass rushers are way to fast. DT's are getting HUGE Across the board. I would feel much better with a Smart, Strong and BIG Center along with MW and Villarial covering the middle.

[Bill from NYC]

I say move MW to guard and be done with it. He is too big for tackle.

 

Sign a FA Center if possible, if not draft one worth a damn!

 

Work on Price and Teague at tackles.  keep the depth we have.

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You would be satisfied with Teague and Price as your starting OTs? I would not. Besides, who would back them up?

 

ICE, is your post based on the premise that McNally would make supersatrs out of both of them?

[bobblehead]

My guess yes, Jonas is gone.  Someone will make a big mistake and throw a ton of cash his way.

 

Teague--barring a FA signing yes

 

Tucker--seems to be doing well

 

Those three are gone.

 

One for you...do you move Williams to guard?  If you do, that leaves two new tackles next year.

96351[/snapback]

 

 

Sobieski is on the shelf for the year, so I don't know about him. McFarland is, well, a bit small for Tackle, IMO. Pucillo just flat out sucks.

 

Teague stays, he has improved. Tucker will have to make the team.

 

Williams stays at Tackle. Jennings is gone.

 

So, Teague, Williams, Villerial stay. Sobieski and Tucker to try out at camp. Jennings, McFarland, Pucillo gone.

[respk]

I'm expecting a HUGE game from the OLine this week against the Jets. I just saw the pancake block Bannan made on the touchdown. I don't remember the last time I saw the OLine get a block like that especially in a crucial situation like that. I'm hoping McNally plays that sequence over and over and over for them to see. I'm hoping they have night mares over that block by a defensive lineman no less.

[ICE]

You would be satisfied with Teague and Price as your starting OTs? I would not. Besides, who would back them up?

 

ICE, is your post based on the premise that McNally would make supersatrs out of both of them? 

96657[/snapback]

 

 

If JMac can't then no one can. I want a New Center, Price at one of the tackles and MW At guard. The other tackle either draft or sign

[R. Rich]

If you were to go with Price as a starter, you'd better have a good backup available. I don't think it's a bad idea, though.

 

Jennings can be let go, unless he wants to sign at a reasonable rate and compete for a starting position. He shouldn't just be handed one, as he hasn't distinguished himself at LT to the point where that should happen.

 

Move Big Mike inside to guard. It minimizes his obvious weakness against speed rushers and helps to solidify the middle against the increasingly larger DTs (look at guys like Haynesworth, Henderson, and Stroud!!!).

 

Teague is NOT the answer at left tackle. At all. Denver did not make an offer to retain him, or else he'd still be there. He was set to be replaced as the starter at LT, regardless of his contract situation.

 

What I hope is that we make an aggressive move to sign a guy like Walter Jones to be the LT. I know it would be tough, as he wants lots of $$$ to play wherever he goes, but we should see if we can work something out with him. If we're successful with that, I'd hope we also look to draft a center AND a guard EARLY in next year's draft. We have average (barely) talent starting for us with very little depth. There is NO excuse for neglecting the line again this coming offseason.

[Bill from NYC]

If you were to go with Price as a starter, you'd better have a good backup available.  I don't think it's a bad idea, though.

 

Jennings can be let go, unless he wants to sign at a reasonable rate and compete for a starting position.  He shouldn't just be handed one, as he hasn't distinguished himself at LT to the point where that should happen.

 

Move Big Mike inside to guard.  It minimizes his obvious weakness against speed rushers and helps to solidify the middle against the increasingly larger DTs (look at guys like Haynesworth, Henderson, and Stroud!!!).

 

Teague is NOT the answer at left tackle.  At all.  Denver did not make an offer to retain him, or else he'd still be there.  He was set to be replaced as the starter at LT, regardless of his contract situation. 

 

What I hope is that we make an aggressive move to sign a guy like Walter Jones to be the LT.  I know it would be tough, as he wants lots of $$$ to play wherever he goes, but we should see if we can work something out with him.  If we're successful with that, I'd hope we also look to draft a center AND a guard EARLY in next year's draft.  We have average (barely) talent starting for us with very little depth.  There is NO excuse for neglecting the line again this coming offseason.

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I am all for drafting a center, but tell me, is Tucker looking OK?

Btw, I am still bummed out that neither you nor Badolbilz likes Hopkins.

 

As for Jones, I would like to offer him 45 million for 6 years, with a 15 million dollar signing bonus.

[CarolinaBill99]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dylan McFarland turns out to compete for a starting job next year. He is a project type with physical skills that McNally has been known to make better. He is 6-5 305 lbs and with a frame to put on weight according to the Bills Draft board. He has been unsucessful putting on weight in college but Rusty will have no problem helping him with that.

He played LT and center in college so he has some versatility.

I would not rely on this to happen, go make other plans, but you can never have too many good lineman.

[R. Rich]

I am all for drafting a center, but tell me, is Tucker looking OK?

Btw, I am still bummed out that neither you nor Badolbilz likes Hopkins. 

 

As for Jones, I would like to offer him 45 million for 6 years, with a 15 million dollar signing bonus.   

97213[/snapback]

 

Tucker is looking okay. Even if he pans out at center, we can still use quality depth. That's why it's important to address the line early in the draft. Even without a first round pick, you can still find excellent interior OL in rounds 2 and 3, where they mostly end up being taken anyway.

 

We discussed Hopkins? You'll have to refresh my memory on that one.

 

Jones would be a nice addition to our OL, don't you think? Look at what bringing in Spikes did for the LB unit. I sure hope it can happen.

 

Sorry 'bout not making it back to your spot after the game. We left pretty quickly due to the weather and having to drive back to Erie.

[/dev/null]

LT - Teague

LG - Williams

C - Tucker

RG - Villarell

RT - McFarland

 

Pucillo, Smith, and Sobeski backups, plus a draftee or 2

Jennings and Price leave as UFAs

[bartshan-83]

I very much disagree with allowing Teague to cover JPs blindside. We just drafted our hopeful star QB for the next decade and if we make ANY big FA move this offseason, I would hope it would be to get him a very good LT to protect him. Allowing Teague to protect him will shorten his career. I'm with you Rich, if we could only get Jones (did the Rams lock up Pace long term?). It would take some serious dough, but i think it would be worth it.

 

For the rest of the line, I like the idea of moving Mike inside but IF, IF we do that, definitely wait till the offseason. Things haven't been that bad since Willis started picking up blitzers, lets see where this current alignmnet gets us.

 

peace

[Estro]

Hear me out now everyone seems to be under the impression we drated Mike Williams to be our Right tackle. Thats what Tom Donahoe said in one of those prior Q & A, but thats a bunch of garbage. The season before we used Jennings at Rt and thats where he was much more suited to play. I think Jennings would've been a solid right tackle, but think hes a little too slow for the more athletic LT postion. Then right after we picked Williams talk was he'd be our dominant LT for the next 10 years. Sure enough we move him to RT showing that he wasnt ready to take over the LT spot, and now Donahoe acts as if that was the original intent to play him at RT. I don't buy it.

 

You dont sign a starting RT to the type of deal Big Mike got. I'm not criticizing Big Mike I think he can still be the dominant force we need him to be (hopefully soon), but rather I'm angry at Tom Donahoe for actually believeing us fans are that stupid.

 

Mike was drafted to be our LT not out RT I don't care what garbage Donahoe says, he beats around the bush way too often.

 

I don't know but does anyone know what the average money a RT gets, I'm sure Mike Willaims is way up their if not the highest paid RT in the league. Anyone who knows let me know I'm interested to see where Mike stacks up salary wise with the rest of him because at this point hes very average and doesnt deserve top dollars.

[HarkinBanks]

Little bird told me that Jason Peters is an absolutely unbelievable athelete at tackle and will figure in the mix for sure next year. Problem is that he is not very bright and I don't know how much that will hold him back.

[ICE]

LT Free Agent

LG Mike Williams

C Tucker

RT Villarial

RT Price or Draft pick.

 

Do that and we are in much better shape.

[Matt in KC]

Do Sobieski, Pucillo, McFarland figure in the mix?

96343[/snapback]

Sobieski didn't make the final roster (which surprised many). It's hard to beleive Pucillo couldn't win a backup job after being a starter so recently, though I do want our backups to play better than I saw from him on many occasions (before the recent blows to his ego).

 

McFarland seems like he might develop, but who knows. He'll be fun to look for next training camp.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I think most of us will agree the OL is still a concern after 4 years of Teflon Tom's reign.

 

So here are some questions.  What are the answers?

 

Is Jonas Jennings gone?

 

Will Teague take over at LT?

 

Will/can Jason Bannan make the swith to the OL during the off season?

 

Is Tucker the answer at center?

 

Who might be the likely FA O lineman the Bills might pickup?

 

Do Sobieski, Pucillo, McFarland figure in the mix?

96343[/snapback]

 

 

I see too many question marks here to make a prediction or certainly to advocate a line-up and positions for players without some try-outs at the new spots. Ihe OL more than any other football unit is not simply a job of picking the best 5 players as athletes and putting them out there or even the best athletes at the 5 positions and sticking them out there. The key is to find the best five players who coordinate and play well together and put this unit out there. In a good OL the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts.

 

I think that for discussion sake, seeing folks opinions on who that might be is worthwhile and a key to rooting for the team, but for the most part I think that the various opinions stated about put this player here and that player there are junk. My sense of working with the OL is:

 

1. Players can move and learn new positions, but they are not tinker toys who can easily be slotted in wherever you want them to go. Chemostry is key to the whole being greater than the sum of the individual parts and chemistry comes from repetition and playing together in the same roles as much as possible. In general, the off-season gives you the necessary time to give player a try in new positions and maybe the bye week gives you some time.

 

However, when a team is forced to bring in 2 new players into this unit of 5 or is forced to bring in 1 new player but shift a stand-by to a new position, even if the new 5 are all great players, the OL play as a unit can suck out the wazoo. Figure that we can make 1.5 changes at a time to the OL (one new player and one old player moving to a new position) and anything more than that figure that many sacks will happen and the run game will take a long while to develop.

 

2. The Bills already burning through this 1.5 switches due to injuries and bad play. Stability does allow us to do some neat experiments like bringing Bannan and Adams in the redzone for a few plays. We needed to do them because overall redzone production was horrible and L. Smith at LG has brought unexpected benefits to a position we have been unable to fill but he is not the player (yet e hope) that we want at LG. The injury to Teague and the nicks which have forced out Jennings for a few games makes it fairly impossible to bring in new players in more than a fill-in for the injured player or shift a players position like MW which at best will be an experiment for now.

 

3. The key thing to remember about the success we had with the Bannan surpruse us that he played way less than a dozen plays and that Adams switched in at TE for a couple of plays. The success they had is great but no one should expect them to man a position for a whole game. Their play is freat because it will make opposing DL players review even more tape. However, if we see them at these positions only once or twice for the rest of the season and only for a few plays that is about what should be expected.

 

Overall, I have enough trust in JMac and his experience (it isn't even funny comparing it to the non-experience of Vinky and Ruel) that he should be fine experimenting and fine tuning this OL the rest of this season, but it is going to be the off-season where we see any position changes that make sense. I trust his judgment to put together a good whole, my assesment of individuals is:

 

Jennings- All signs point to him being gone as an FA who wants to go south to home. He is a good player, but his history of injury makes him too much of a risk for us to break the bank on him. I say adios unless he signs incredibly cheaply and even if he can be had incredibly cheaply I still might want to go in another direction as I think the tackle situation is tough but workable without him.

 

Smith- His stepping up saved our butts because as we searched for a replacement for Ruben it turned out that candidates Pacillo, Sullivan and possibly Sobieski were not up to the job. He is a UDFA/PS background player and produces like one. Even this mediocre level is a bonus for us after the candidates we had for replacing Ruben were at the level they were obvious cuts (even with the marked shortage of OL talent in this league neither of these two players has been picked up as an NFL player as best I can tell). Smith is not an adequate LG (witness the redzone problems and the desperation of even switching to Bannan for a few plays) but he has come incredly far from UDFA to starter and with work he may be an adequuate OG next year.

 

Teague- Despite calls for his being cut by some fans after being embarassingly bowled over a few times last season it seemed clear that many OL and offensive coaches felt he has the smarts and the leadership capacity to be a quality center. From my view Teague has shown the ability to make positive line calls, the athleticism to deal with the hulking DTs he faces, and the ability to do shotgun snaps as he started as an adventure at this last year, but learned how to do good snaps. However, though he strikes me as being able to do all of these individual functions, he has shown an inability to multi-task. When the play mandated that he do several things at the same time he sometimes messed up one of them with disastrous results. Still. up until his injury he seemed to be putting it all together and unless there is a better idea out there (we seemed to be committed to him contractually he is our center. If it comes to it, I think he can play LT for us if Jennings goes, however this creates a gap at C which will need to be filled in FA. Dtill its nice to have the flexibility.

 

Villareal- He is Ruben on the right side for us and has the experience to be a stabilizing force. I assume the bad penalty he took early in the season came from the lack of chemistry. He should last for a couple of years at least and though he does not appear to be the leader we need, merely being solid is good enough if others (Teague in terms of smarts and MW in terms of play) really step it up a notch because they are not there yet.

 

MW- Hmmm. Talk of him being a bust was pre-mature last season but became a real and serious concern when he reacted non-professionally and badly to his Grandmother passing away. As a human being this is understandable since apparently his Grandma raised him like she was his Mother. However, life is tough and he is paid big bucks to be a professional and he was not able to do it this off-season as he allowed himself to get fat and unmotivated.

 

However, so far so good this season as he seems to have heard the wake-up calls with JMac talking about him being moved to G. His injury in the pre-season seemed to come from him working too hard to whip himself back into shape (unfortunate physically but a good sign mentally). He took a bad penalty which cost us a TD in the redzone last week, but this was actually his only penalty so far this season in an OL and team which lacks discipline. Further amidst an OL which gave uop no sacks this week, was incredibly productive in the redzone against one of the better redzone Ds in the league and blocked for a 100 yard rusher, it was Williams who got a game ball.

 

Moving him to guard in midseason may work but merely would be an experiment that may not work well at all either. Particularly with our LT likely gone in the off-season, it makes much more sense to me to keep demanding improvement from MW. Given the lack of solid coaching he has received in his brief career and putting the now of the league Pucillo next to him when he needed a Villareal next to him last year, it strikes me as panicling to call him a bust or to give up on him playing tackle right now. He is a big boy but has shown the athleticism to deal with speed rusher so far in his career.

 

Tucker- He has really shown up for the Bills in Teague's stad and I am more than comfortable with him backing up several positions and pressing Teague for the starting center\s job.

 

Price- He also is great for us to have as a back-up. The idea of making him a starter leaves us two holes to fill in my book as he is able to pull off a rare trick in that he is a credible back-up for both tackle positions.

 

Pucillio- I actually just remembered he ain't gome but is one of our back-up guards. I don't think so and he needs to show some definite improvement or more likely be gone.

 

McFarland- Journey man-

 

Epositio, Pruce, Rodney, Peters- The precence of 4 linemen on our practice squad merely shows how desperate we are. It wouldn't surprise me if one of them is the next Tucker or Smith. In fact one of them had better be or getting a big name FA OL player will be a priority for us in the off-season.

[ICE]

In my oponion, We should draft a Center with our first selection in the draft.

LT:FA or MW

LG:MW or draft pick

C:Draft pick(Ben Wilkerson)

RG:CV

RT:Price

97673[/snapback]

 

 

Scott, Mike williams is TOO SLOW. He is WAY too slow at RT. And you want to move him against the Best/fastest pass rushers? No way brother.

 

I know you are all into "but we spent this much time on him at RT" and all, but his genetics say Guard.

[Lori]

In my oponion, We should draft a Center with our first selection in the draft.

LT:FA or MW

LG:MW or draft pick

C:Draft pick(Ben Wilkerson)

RG:CV

RT:Price

97673[/snapback]

You know Wilkerson just ruptured a patella tendon last weekend, right? Hafta wait and see how that affects his draft status.

[ICE]

You know Wilkerson just ruptured a patella tendon last weekend, right? Hafta wait and see how that affects his draft status.

97684[/snapback]

 

 

Don't touch him. sorry been there done that and he will need 2 full years before coming back.

 

This means TD would 100% Draft him!

[njsue]

What the hell is taking them so long to kick some of these oline losers to the frigging curb. You wonder why the running game slacks

[respk]

I've said it before the beef has to be in the middle and the athlete on the outside. Assuming they can sign Jennings.

 

LT - Teague

LG - Williams

C - Jennings or FA

RG - Villarial

RT - FA/Rookie

 

Bannan pushes Williams at LG since I don't think Williams has the heart for it.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Scott, Mike williams is TOO SLOW.  He is WAY too slow at RT. And you want to move him against the Best/fastest pass rushers?  No way brother.

 

I know you are all into "but we spent this much time on him at RT" and all, but his genetics say Guard.

97679[/snapback]

 

 

MW got a gameball awarded to him for his work in the last game with the OL giving up no sacks and opening holes for a 100 yard rusher and 2 rushing TDs. What is the basis for the indictment of Williams"

 

He has had obvious problems but they have struck me a mental in that he and Pucillo did not co-ordinate well at all last year as a team and at times his focus seems to dift.

 

In terms of athleticism and speed, he certainly has shown in workouts that he is far more nimble than most linemen and big guys. He put on too much weight when got sad over losing his granny this off-season but has seemed diligent in working off the pounds and getting into game shape.

 

When I have seen him give up sacks and allow pressure it has not been speed rushes (which usually have to go through or circle around the TE position on the right side but it has been stunts that have given him problems.