The Bills Should Move to Toronto

[Setrett]

Despite the NFL’s best attempts at creating parity throughout the league, it remains mostly impotent in the arena of overall team revenue. Every team in the NFL is subject to the same salary cap for players, but profits from the sales of luxury boxes, tickets, and merchandising go by and large to teams in the biggest markets. And I haven’t even mentioned revenue from playoff appearances. Just look at the disparity in money generated in luxury box seats alone between the Dallas Cowboys and Buffalo Bills.

 

Buffalo’s biggest problem over the last decade has been a complete inability to “right the ship”. In my estimation, the biggest factors that have played into this are the personnel decisions made by the front office and the coaching regimes. With competition in the NFL at a truly intense level, it is obvious that if a team cannot secure a competitive advantage in these two categories then it will be chronically disadvantaged.

 

I fear that the Bills have fallen into a state of perpetual mediocrity. I don’t believe this is due to a lack of heart on anyone’s part. It’s a simple matter of lacking the tools to hire the best staff and coaches available in the NFL. Unless Ralph Wilson decides to open up the purse strings or western New York’s economy is suddenly revitalized, I don’t see these endemic problems (the type of problems that keep teams out of the playoffs for an embarrassing stretch of time) being overcome any time soon.

 

For that reason, I am in favor of the Bills moving to Toronto. Even when the Bills are playing well, Ralph Wilson Stadium does not always sell out, depriving the team of revenue. The problem has become so acute that the NFL has actively tried to avoid scheduling home games in the month of December in Buffalo. While the Roger’s Center is slightly smaller than The Ralph, this would be more than compensated by the higher ticket prices the organization has proven capable of charging. All luxury seats for the Bills-Dolphins match-up have been sold.

 

Being the only Canadian NFL team is likely to draw in more Canadian spectators, increasing the fan base and driving up merchandise sales. Being part of a larger market would also lead to greater national exposure, something a team that has been playing in the dark for so long sorely needs.

 

While I understand that this suggestion is likely to attract hatred amongst the Bills faithful, I have to beg the question: If you knew that moving the team two hours up the road would significantly increase its chances of returning to the Super Bowl, would the trade-off be worth it? Wouldn’t anything be better than our current status quo? Football in Buffalo is a full day event anyway, and one could imagine the 100 minute drive becoming a new ritual, not unlike the one fans in New York City already participate in to get to The Meadowlands. Furthermore, there is no reason that a Bills team based out of Toronto shouldn’t play at least a game a year in Ralph Wilson stadium, giving the team a dynamic that no other in the league could match.

 

Make no mistake. The Bills will always be a part of western New York, and regardless of where the team resides, an eventual Super Bowl victory parade will march through the streets of Buffalo. But just as we send our sons and daughters to college and our brave men and women of the armed forces abroad, sometimes we realize that we need to send those that we love away to ensure that true greatness can emerge.

[taterhill]

If the Bills move...the team and the NFL are dead to me

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I take it you're not from Buffalo. Did Baltimore Colts fans root for the Indianapolis Colts? No. I'm sorry if this is petty, but if the Superbowl parade isn't in the city of Buffalo, I can't celebrate it.

[enrique14150]

This poster can't be from Buffalo, because if they were their heart wouldn't let them write something like that. Did they support the Braves when they moved to San Diego? Why would you support a team that would jilt you like that? You'd be the ultimate sucker. The sign on the door says the BUFFALO Bills, and it means that. If they leave, they're not our team anymore.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

This poster can't be from Buffalo, because if they were their heart wouldn't let them write something like that. Did they support the Braves when they moved to San Diego? Why would you support a team that would jilt you like that? You'd be the ultimate sucker. The sign on the door says the BUFFALO Bills, and it means that. If they leave, they're not our team anymore.

 

I thought the Braves moved to LA and became the Clippers.

[billfan63]

I take it you're not from Buffalo. Did Baltimore Colts fans root for the Indianapolis Colts? No. I'm sorry if this is petty, but if the Superbowl parade isn't in the city of Buffalo, I can't celebrate it.

There are fans here in Houston who still root for the Titans based on their Oiler past.

It's alot easier this year with Tennesee undefeated and the Texans sucking but since the Oilers left Houston

there is a loyal following who still consider the Titans as their team.

[taterhill]

I thought the Braves moved to LA and became the Clippers.

San Diego first

[Gavin in Va Beach]

While I understand that this suggestion is likely to attract hatred amongst the Bills faithful, I have to beg the question: If you knew that moving the team two hours up the road would significantly increase its chances of returning to the Super Bowl, would the trade-off be worth it? Wouldn’t anything be better than our current status quo? Football in Buffalo is a full day event anyway, and one could imagine the 100 minute drive becoming a new ritual, not unlike the one fans in New York City already participate in to get to The Meadowlands. Furthermore, there is no reason that a Bills team based out of Toronto shouldn’t play at least a game a year in Ralph Wilson stadium, giving the team a dynamic that no other in the league could match.

 

Make no mistake. The Bills will always be a part of western New York, and regardless of where the team resides, an eventual Super Bowl victory parade will march through the streets of Buffalo. But just as we send our sons and daughters to college and our brave men and women of the armed forces abroad, sometimes we realize that we need to send those that we love away to ensure that true greatness can emerge.

 

1)The Toronto Bills =|= The Buffalo Bills. Personally I'd hope that if the team ever does move the name 'Bills' and the teams history stays behind in Buffalo until at some point after the city has an economic revival the team could restarted, like the Browns. If that didn't happen, I would not root for the Toronto Bills. It wouldn't even remotely be the same. And I think it's ridiculous to think a Super Bowl parade for the Toronto Bills would ever go through Buffalo. I'd expect a lot of snowballs would be thrown.

[BuffaloWings]

I thought the Braves moved to LA and became the Clippers.

I think they moved to San Diego first, then LA.

[buckeyemike]

I think they moved to San Diego first, then LA.

 

Correct. San Diego in 1978, then to LA in '84.

[kegtapr]

Don't feed the trolls

[stephenjames716]

If the Bills move...the team and the NFL are dead to me

 

exactly

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Don't feed the trolls

 

I don't think he's a troll, because he presents a logical argument from the perspective of an outsider. He just fails to include the emotional factor that comes with growing up in Buffalo.

[BB2004]

If the Bills move...the team and the NFL are dead to me

 

I agree 100%. I'm not from the Buffalo area, but if the Bills move from Buffalo that will truly be the biggest and most painful loss in franchise history.

[Mularkey]

If the Bills move...the team and the NFL are dead to me

 

Protests in the lots every opening day!!!!

[GG]

On the other hand, I'd gain my Sundays and sanity back.

[Billsboyd]

To me, the Bills moving to Toronto and still expecting Buffalo fans to support them would be like your girl leaving you for your neighbor and still expecting you to come over for thanksgiving dinner because it "would mean so much to her". No thank you sir, no thank you.

[Setrett]

My “outsider” status is that obvious, huh? Well, you are right. I have been a Bills fan for as long as I’ve known what a touchdown was, but I now live in Baltimore and with the exception of the great Bills Backers down at Fletcher’s every Sunday, we remote few live in greater isolation than the current Buffalo denizens.

 

From my perspective, there is a much smaller football community for your team when you’re out of state. The greatest hope I have to cling to is that the Bills will once again rise to prominence and make all of us very happy.

 

But there is a difference between us. For me, I will support the Bills regardless of where I am and regardless of where they are. They are my team and there’s nothing that I can forsee ever changing that. My ultimate frustration is watching them build our hopes up year and year only to dash them in the final weeks of each season. While I do still believe that moving the team to Toronto would increase the chances of their becoming a more successful organization, I completely empathize with local fans. But to me, realize that driving two hours to see my team play would be a welcome blessing, not a reason to give up on the NFL entirely.

 

Perhaps the more reasonable proposal would be for the NFL to begin to include coaches and staff under the salary cap. They are just as important as the players when it comes to winning games, so why has the league, which professes to care about parity, not yet made this change? This would address the competitive disadvantage issue while still allowing the team to remain in Buffalo.

[billybob]

Bills and Sabre, If the teams are willing and able to compete I'd want them to stay if not let them go - I never understood Fans of some of those baseball teams who are basically out of the race every year before the season even begins- I don't understand how it is sports if there are teams who have no chance of winning- I don't think the Bills or Sabre are at that point yet but if they get there let them go, you have better things to do with your time and money.

[marauderswr80]

If the Bills move...the team and the NFL are dead to me

 

Same here, even fantasy football would be dead to me. I could careless about football. And it would be hard to watch college football cause my team there is Syracuse, and well.......id rather be dragged outside get kicked in the nuts and call it a day.

[macaroni]

My “outsider” status is that obvious, huh? Well, you are right. I have been a Bills fan for as long as I’ve known what a touchdown was, but I now live in Baltimore and with the exception of the great Bills Backers down at Fletcher’s every Sunday, we remote few live in greater isolation than the current Buffalo denizens.

 

From my perspective, there is a much smaller football community for your team when you’re out of state. The greatest hope I have to cling to is that the Bills will once again rise to prominence and make all of us very happy.

 

Very interesting ..... not to disparage your "fandom", but what exactly drives you to be a Bills fan?

 

The reason I ask is I'm pretty much in the same boat as far as being an out of state Bills fan. I was born and raised in WNY and attended the Bills Camps/games from the begining, but left Buffalo in 1970.

I remain a Bills fan because watching and rooting for them for some strange reason brings me back to my roots. Laugh if you will but when the Bills tee it up on Sundays I can actually feel the chill in the Florida air, I can actually smell autumn in the air, I crave a bag of peanuts from the vendor outside of the gates on Best street. I can almost taste the ice cold Genny. Watching a Bills game brings back memories of my youth with my brothers and dad at the rockpile in a much MUCH simpler time.

 

However, in todays age of free agency, if the Bills would ever move from WNY, they would become just another NFL team to me. I wouldn't actively "boycott" them, but I'd have no special interest in them either. If I remained a football fan, living in Florida, I guess I'd have to choose between the Jags, Bucks, and dolphins as my "home team" (yeah like I could ever root for the dolphins).

[Flbillsfan#1]

I thought the Braves moved to LA and became the Clippers.

Actually the Braves moved to Boston & became the Celtics. The Celtics moved to Cal & became the Clippers.

[murra]

I agree 100%. I'm not from the Buffalo area, but if the Bills move from Buffalo that will truly be the biggest and most painful loss in franchise history.

 

...Yeah. Typically, not having a franchise anymore is the biggest loss in a franchise's history.

[Flbillsfan#1]

My “outsider” status is that obvious, huh? Well, you are right. I have been a Bills fan for as long as I’ve known what a touchdown was, but I now live in Baltimore and with the exception of the great Bills Backers down at Fletcher’s every Sunday, we remote few live in greater isolation than the current Buffalo denizens.

 

From my perspective, there is a much smaller football community for your team when you’re out of state. The greatest hope I have to cling to is that the Bills will once again rise to prominence and make all of us very happy.

 

But there is a difference between us. For me, I will support the Bills regardless of where I am and regardless of where they are. They are my team and there’s nothing that I can forsee ever changing that. My ultimate frustration is watching them build our hopes up year and year only to dash them in the final weeks of each season. While I do still believe that moving the team to Toronto would increase the chances of their becoming a more successful organization, I completely empathize with local fans. But to me, realize that driving two hours to see my team play would be a welcome blessing, not a reason to give up on the NFL entirely.

 

Perhaps the more reasonable proposal would be for the NFL to begin to include coaches and staff under the salary cap. They are just as important as the players when it comes to winning games, so why has the league, which professes to care about parity, not yet made this change? This would address the competitive disadvantage issue while still allowing the team to remain in Buffalo.

If the Bills ever move to Toronto, the Bills backer group you watch the games with would likely shrink to 2-3 people, you & one or two others that don't have a clue what it means to truely be a Bills fan.

[scribo]

If the Bills ever move to Toronto, the Bills backer group you watch the games with would likely shrink to 2-3 people, you & one or two others that don't have a clue what it means to truely be a Bills fan.

 

How is that fair? Because he doesn't know what it means to be from a city on hard times?

 

He is sticking with the team even when they break out hearts over and over and over again.

 

I don't think we should attack this guy. He is just Bills fan, but not necessarily a Buffalo Bills fan.

 

I am from Rochester and love and pray for the very best for all of WNY. Professional football would be no more in my view if the Bills leave WNY, but if he isn't from WNY, why should he really care about it? He loves the Bills not Buffalo. We who are from the region know that the Bills and Buffalo are considered one in the same to all of us, but I guess it makes sense outsiders wouldn't always see it that way.

[Flbillsfan#1]

How is that fair? Because he doesn't know what it means to be from a city on hard times?

 

He is sticking with the team even when they break out hearts over and over and over again.

 

I don't think we should attack this guy. He is just Bills fan, but not necessarily a Buffalo Bills fan.

 

I am from Rochester and love and pray for the very best for all of WNY. Professional football would be no more in my view if the Bills leave WNY, but if he isn't from WNY, why should he really care about it? He loves the Bills not Buffalo. We who are from the region know that the Bills and Buffalo are considered one in the same to all of us, but I guess it makes sense outsiders wouldn't always see it that way.

I don't mean to attack him. I'm just stating facts. Most people that follow the Bills from other areas of the country do so because they grew up in the area as Bills fans. If the Bills ever leave they could still be called the Bills (I doubt they would because it wouldn't make any sense)but they wouldn't be the BUFFALO Bills anymore than the Colts are the BALTIMORE Colts or the RAVENS are the CLEVLAND Browns. I doubt there would be many fans ANYWHERE in this Country rooting for the Toronto Whatevers.

[John from Riverside]

I am not from Buffalo.....the closest I ever got to there was Cape Cod MA

 

BUT

 

I dont want to see them leave.....and on the flipside of that I am concerned that whoever controls this team if it stays in Buffalo will not make the moves it will take to make this team good....

 

It means overspending for players who are worth it.....

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I don't mean to attack him. I'm just stating facts. Most people that follow the Bills from other areas of the country do so because they grew up in the area as Bills fans. If the Bills ever leave they could still be called the Bills (I doubt they would because it wouldn't make any sense)but they wouldn't be the BUFFALO Bills anymore than the Colts are the BALTIMORE Colts or the RAVENS are the CLEVLAND Browns. I doubt there would be many fans ANYWHERE in this Country rooting for the Toronto Whatevers.

 

They might still call them the Bills, even though it wouldn't make sense. Just ask the Los Angeles Lakers (formerly Minnesota) and the Utah Jazz (formerly New Orleans) if their names make any sense.

[Setrett]

After making the original posting, I've had some long conversations with a lot of people and have drawn the conclusion that my initial argument was a bit hasty. While it is true that I am more connected to the Bills than Buffalo, I wonder how my fandom would change with a move to Toronto. The poster who argued that the Bills crowd at Fletcher's would dwindle down is probably correct. If that happens, then I don't even have a place to watch the games anymore, and that would be a disaster. I want to quote one of my friends who had some good things to say on this issue:

 

"I totally disagree, Buffalo's problems are not as a result of the small market in which they play. It is the result of terrible mismanagement that will not be cured by any move to Toronto. It's ludicrous to claim that Buffalo simply cannot generate the revenue necessary to hire competent staff, especially when Buffalo's owner purchases, with untold millions each year, a luxury in which only a handful of owners indulge: a stadium named after himself. If the Bill struggles are a matter of finances and if the Bills ownership is seriously committed to staying and competing in Buffalo (and not, say, extorting public subsidies from Toronto or Buffalo) why don't they sell the naming rights for their stadium so they can hire a few more scouts?

 

Now, that's the extra revenue stream I thought of on my way home from work, and without any knowledge of the marketing opportunities open to the Bills. A competent ownership group would be able to make a profit out of any NFL team. The Bills are one of 32 teams in the most successful professional sports league in the country, and even teams from smaller market towns like Pittsburgh and Green Bay have been able to field consistently successful teams with similar financial constraints. Moreover, the team gets an enormous pile of money in shared revenue from the TV contract and tickets no matter how incompetently they manage the team's finances. The profit margins may be a bit less in Buffalo, but it should be enough for a civic minded owner to sustain an NFL Franchise.

 

After all, what is the point of having shared revenue and a salary cap if teams from still-major cities with committed fan bases like Buffalo have to move? I thought the idea was that the league would sacrifice the rather efficient allocation of assigning the largest payrolls to the teams with the most committed and most numerous fan bases in exchange for the benefits of giving every NFL city a relatively equal shot at the title. I don't believe that Buffalo has been deserted in such large numbers over the past 7 years such that it has less potential as a market than, say, Green Bay, if the Bills were actually managed properly.

 

But more importantly, what is the point of being a Buffalo Bills fan if they aren't the Buffalo Bills anymore? What is the essential thing that draws you to them if not the city, your fellow fans, and the uniform, all of which would be changed if the franchise moved to Buffalo? I just can't see how it would be any source of satisfaction to any Bills fan if, in 2017, the Toronto Argonauts won the Super Bowl. For one, it would not be the Buffalo Bills. For another, the people who you celebrated with would not be the Buffalo expats that suffered in Fletcher's all these years, but rather...like....Joanna Nairn [ed: a Toronto acquaintance] and others in the coming Toronto fair weather crowd, who will be able to enjoy the Super Bowl, not because they were loyal and supportive of the team over 40 years, but because they had more money than the blue collar town of Buffalo. And you would be looked at by former Bills fans with the same scorn as if you had jumped ship to root for the Colts."

 

 

I also wanted to address the other issue of why I'm a Bills fan in the first place. I was born and raised in New Jersey before moving to Boston for five years and now live in Baltimore. Our local teams were either the Giants, Jets, or Eagles. When I was a kid, my dad had arranged a collection of those tiny 25 cent football helmets that you get out of the machines in our basement. When I was 7, I didn't really know what the teams stood for, but I could definitely recognize their logos. As I grew up, I began to pay more attention to sports, watching highlights of games and hearing commentary and such. I would alternate between listening to coverage and checking out those toy helmets. After a while (and I don't know why this happened), my brain just started tuning out other teams and honed in on the Bills. I liken it to falling in love. Sometimes you don't choose your passions. They choose you. So from a very young age, something about the Buffalo Bills resonated with me, and as I've continued to follow them over the years, I've found my love for them has only grown (often increasingly painful...hah).

 

In another cruel twist of fate, my favorite basketball team was the Seattle Supersonics, who are now, of course, the Oklahoma City Thunder. I consider myself a Thunder fan despite their horrible record and a complete inability to ever see them play. Despite that, my connection to them pales in comparison to my desire to see the Bills succeed. I just think it's an interesting and improbable coincidence.

[Flbillsfan#1]

They might still call them the Bills, even though it wouldn't make sense. Just ask the Los Angeles Lakers (formerly Minnesota) and the Utah Jazz (formerly New Orleans) if their names make any sense.

Basketball, go figure.

[Flbillsfan#1]

After making the original posting, I've had some long conversations with a lot of people and have drawn the conclusion that my initial argument was a bit hasty. While it is true that I am more connected to the Bills than Buffalo, I wonder how my fandom would change with a move to Toronto. The poster who argued that the Bills crowd at Fletcher's would dwindle down is probably correct. If that happens, then I don't even have a place to watch the games anymore, and that would be a disaster. I want to quote one of my friends who had some good things to say on this issue:

 

"I totally disagree, Buffalo's problems are not as a result of the small market in which they play. It is the result of terrible mismanagement that will not be cured by any move to Toronto. It's ludicrous to claim that Buffalo simply cannot generate the revenue necessary to hire competent staff, especially when Buffalo's owner purchases, with untold millions each year, a luxury in which only a handful of owners indulge: a stadium named after himself. If the Bill struggles are a matter of finances and if the Bills ownership is seriously committed to staying and competing in Buffalo (and not, say, extorting public subsidies from Toronto or Buffalo) why don't they sell the naming rights for their stadium so they can hire a few more scouts?

 

Now, that's the extra revenue stream I thought of on my way home from work, and without any knowledge of the marketing opportunities open to the Bills. A competent ownership group would be able to make a profit out of any NFL team. The Bills are one of 32 teams in the most successful professional sports league in the country, and even teams from smaller market towns like Pittsburgh and Green Bay have been able to field consistently successful teams with similar financial constraints. Moreover, the team gets an enormous pile of money in shared revenue from the TV contract and tickets no matter how incompetently they manage the team's finances. The profit margins may be a bit less in Buffalo, but it should be enough for a civic minded owner to sustain an NFL Franchise.

 

After all, what is the point of having shared revenue and a salary cap if teams from still-major cities with committed fan bases like Buffalo have to move? I thought the idea was that the league would sacrifice the rather efficient allocation of assigning the largest payrolls to the teams with the most committed and most numerous fan bases in exchange for the benefits of giving every NFL city a relatively equal shot at the title. I don't believe that Buffalo has been deserted in such large numbers over the past 7 years such that it has less potential as a market than, say, Green Bay, if the Bills were actually managed properly.

 

But more importantly, what is the point of being a Buffalo Bills fan if they aren't the Buffalo Bills anymore? What is the essential thing that draws you to them if not the city, your fellow fans, and the uniform, all of which would be changed if the franchise moved to Buffalo? I just can't see how it would be any source of satisfaction to any Bills fan if, in 2017, the Toronto Argonauts won the Super Bowl. For one, it would not be the Buffalo Bills. For another, the people who you celebrated with would not be the Buffalo expats that suffered in Fletcher's all these years, but rather...like....Joanna Nairn [ed: a Toronto acquaintance] and others in the coming Toronto fair weather crowd, who will be able to enjoy the Super Bowl, not because they were loyal and supportive of the team over 40 years, but because they had more money than the blue collar town of Buffalo. And you would be looked at by former Bills fans with the same scorn as if you had jumped ship to root for the Colts."

 

 

I also wanted to address the other issue of why I'm a Bills fan in the first place. I was born and raised in New Jersey before moving to Boston for five years and now live in Baltimore. Our local teams were either the Giants, Jets, or Eagles. When I was a kid, my dad had arranged a collection of those tiny 25 cent football helmets that you get out of the machines in our basement. When I was 7, I didn't really know what the teams stood for, but I could definitely recognize their logos. As I grew up, I began to pay more attention to sports, watching highlights of games and hearing commentary and such. I would alternate between listening to coverage and checking out those toy helmets. After a while (and I don't know why this happened), my brain just started tuning out other teams and honed in on the Bills. I liken it to falling in love. Sometimes you don't choose your passions. They choose you. So from a very young age, something about the Buffalo Bills resonated with me, and as I've continued to follow them over the years, I've found my love for them has only grown (often increasingly painful...hah).

 

In another cruel twist of fate, my favorite basketball team was the Seattle Supersonics, who are now, of course, the Oklahoma City Thunder. I consider myself a Thunder fan despite their horrible record and a complete inability to ever see them play. Despite that, my connection to them pales in comparison to my desire to see the Bills succeed. I just think it's an interesting and improbable coincidence.

Good post, I think you got it.

[Tcali]

The Toronto Bills???? How would you like your wife to go marry another man and then win the lottery>>???

I doubt you would be celebrating her good fortune.

[The Chief Corky]

Supporting the Bills WHEN they move to Toronto is like:

1. Inviting your ex-wife to your next wedding.

2. Eating at Subway instead of John & Mary's.

3. Eating at McDonalds instead of Ted'sHot Dogs.

4. Being 60 yrs old and only wearing a thong outside on Jan. 1st (picture that)

5. Keeping 15% of your check and givig 85% to obama's treasure chest.

6. Going to a football gams and NOT looking at the cheerleaders.

7. 20 degrees and snowing outside and saying "I'll take the motorcycle today instead of the car."

8. Hanging a picture of Jimmy "da lizard face" Johnson up in your livingroom and becoming a dullfish fan.

 

I could go on & on but when the Bills move to Toronto...thay can go F**K themselves.

Matter of fact, they keep up this crap, I may that that motorcycle ride to ease my pain of them leaving by conditioning (pun intended) myself and divorcing the Bills after 49 years of faithful support right now.

 

How many more game and seasons like this can a 59 yr old heart take?

I'd rather go out from a gun in my wife's hand as she finds me in bed with a 20 year old cheerleader.