McCain's five words that sealed my vote...

[Boatdrinks]

For OBAMA.... " At the moment of conception". He sold himself to the evangelicals like a two dollar whore. Add to that the fact that he wants a back door income tax increase on anyone who has an employer paid health insurance policy worth a damn, and it's Obama all the way. That whole meeting with "Pastor Rick " or whatever that idiot calls himself was a joke. Religious test for office, anyone? I liked Obama's answer to that ridiculous question, though. It was essentially like saying "It's out of my area" and is best left to the INDIVIDUAL to decide. Some people get uncomfortable with that though, they need a "guiding light" or something...

[Chilly]

The abortion issue is just oh so important when picking a political candidate.

[John Adams]

For OBAMA.... " At the moment of conception". He sold himself to the evangelicals like a two dollar whore. Add to that the fact that he wants a back door income tax increase on anyone who has an employer paid health insurance policy worth a damn, and it's Obama all the way. That whole meeting with "Pastor Rick " or whatever that idiot calls himself was a joke. Religious test for office, anyone? I liked Obama's answer to that ridiculous question, though. It was essentially like saying "It's out of my area" and is best left to the INDIVIDUAL to decide. Some people get uncomfortable with that though, they need a "guiding light" or something...

 

Go figure. I think life begins at some point near conception too, and I don't care AT ALL about the abortion issue. If you base your vote on someone's abortion view, your right to vote should be revoked.

[Boatdrinks]

Go figure. I think life begins at some point near conception too, and I don't care AT ALL about the abortion issue. If you base your vote on someone's abortion view, your right to vote should be revoked.

 

You know what, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, one's stance on the abortion issue is a pretty good window into their worldview. Those who are vehemently against it are usually religious wackos who want to control the freedoms of others and oppose all that do not conform with their "religion". Very scary stuff. As a male, I do not feel as though I should have any say in in the matter. Women should decide ultimately. Will I ever personally need an abortion? No. Do I care about the "issue"? Not really, it's just an indicator of how one's mind works or doesn't.

[BillsNYC]

Go figure. I think life begins at some point near conception too, and I don't care AT ALL about the abortion issue. If you base your vote on someone's abortion view, your right to vote should be revoked.

 

That's McCain's dilemma. You know he wants Lieberman, but all the conservative wackos out there will vote for a 3rd party rather than vote for a McCain ticket with a pro-life VICE PRESIDENT.

 

I'm a McCain supporter and would love to see Lieberman on the ticket as I'm a social democrat but republican on everything else.

[ExiledInIllinois]

The abortion issue is just oh so important when picking a political candidate.

 

You only have two viable... So pick one. Sorry it isn't PerfectoLand.

[outsidethebox]

For OBAMA.... " At the moment of conception". He sold himself to the evangelicals like a two dollar whore. Add to that the fact that he wants a back door income tax increase on anyone who has an employer paid health insurance policy worth a damn, and it's Obama all the way. That whole meeting with "Pastor Rick " or whatever that idiot calls himself was a joke. Religious test for office, anyone? I liked Obama's answer to that ridiculous question, though. It was essentially like saying "It's out of my area" and is best left to the INDIVIDUAL to decide. Some people get uncomfortable with that though, they need a "guiding light" or something...

just a quick question for you Boatdrinks, are you for or against the death penalty?

[Albany,n.y.]

Things have changed so much since abortion was illegal, many people either are too young to know or have forgotten why there was a push to legalize it.

Back when it was illegal, women who had money could travel out of the country and have safe abortions. Women who couldn't afford it played Russian Roulette with their lives, some not surviving an abortion as a result. That's the real reason for the push to legalize abortion-women were dying.

Now there's more to the story-back in the days before Roe v Wade, our society would stigmatize both woman & child who were the result of an unmarried pregnancy, this doesn't seem to be as much of an issue these days as it did 40-50 years ago. What was once called a "bastard", is now "the child of a single mother". So the urgency to avoid being ostracized by society is somewhat of a moot point.

Also, before the pill, birth control was a lot less effective, another reason the issue is quite different today. Plus there is now the morning after pill.

Whenever the issue comes up, I remember the women who either couldn't afford another child or didn't want to be stigmatized and died as a result.

I really can't say what the effect would be if there was no place in the USA where abortion was legal. That would be the only true test since if it was legal in a few states, those states would have women seeking abortions going there. Since both society & science have changed so much, the issue is quite different than when the politician from the souther tier cast the deciding vote to make abortion legal in NYS.

[SD Jarhead]

You know what, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, one's stance on the abortion issue is a pretty good window into their worldview. Those who are vehemently against it are usually religious wackos who want to control the freedoms of others and oppose all that do not conform with their "religion". Very scary stuff. As a male, I do not feel as though I should have any say in in the matter. Women should decide ultimately. Will I ever personally need an abortion? No. Do I care about the "issue"? Not really, it's just an indicator of how one's mind works or doesn't.

 

That's McCain in a nutshell.

[Boatdrinks]

just a quick question for you Boatdrinks, are you for or against the death penalty?

 

I would lean toward against it in most cases. I would say it might be applicable only if the entire crime was caught on video.Otherwise there are just too many variables and chances for error. Not to mention being more expensive to apply than lifetime imprisonment. That said, if you are trying to compare abortion vs death penalty, well there is no comparison. A pregnant woman's decision to end a pregnancy is completely different from prosecution and punishment for a crime. There is no error involved. She either wants to or she doesn't. It is her body, ultimately.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Not to mention being more expensive to apply than lifetime imprisonment.

at the risk of going way off topic, what does this mean? it costs more to convict and execute a felon than it does to convict, house, feed, and care (to whatever extent the prison system provides...) for the rest of their life?

 

Death Row undoubtedly costs more than the general population, but it's a relatively short period, compared to life behind bars.

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah, abortion is a really important issue facing the country.

 

[Albany,n.y.]

That's McCain in a nutshell.

No, he's just someone pandering to the people he described.

[Chilly]

You only have two viable... So pick one. Sorry it isn't PerfectoLand.

 

 

What does abortion have to do with your comment?

[Boatdrinks]

at the risk of going way off topic, what does this mean? it costs more to convict and execute a felon than it does to convict, house, feed, and care (to whatever extent the prison system provides...) for the rest of their life?

 

Death Row undoubtedly costs more than the general population, but it's a relatively short period, compared to life behind bars.

 

Yes, the cost of the legal process, inevitable appeals, etc for a death penalty case actually exceeds the cost of housing the inmate for life. Studies have been done that show this. So from a taxpayer standpoint death is a less economical option.

[Buford T. Justice]

No one tells Boatdrinks what he can do with his vagina.

[Boatdrinks]

Yeah, abortion is a really important issue facing the country.

 

 

No Darin. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't. That is my point. Why can't we get economic conservatism AND someone who errs on the side of KEEPING freedoms rather than eliminating them? Politcs and "religion" just don't mix. Politics is and should always be about the bottom line only...the ECONOMIC bottom line. Taxes should be low. Services should be fairly minimal. Necessary programs (i.e. defense) should be funded. Regulation should be fairly restrained. These things all benefit the bottom line. And at the end of the day, legal abortion, gay marriage and other social issues du jour just do not change my paycheck any. Therefore they are OK. This is a free country and as many things as possible ought to remain that way.

[SD Jarhead]

Maybe McCain should've just said "present" when asked that question...

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Yes, the cost of the legal process, inevitable appeals, etc for a death penalty case actually exceeds the cost of housing the inmate for life. Studies have been done that show this. So from a taxpayer standpoint death is a less economical option.

ok, I hear that, didn't know

[John Adams]

No Darin. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't. That is my point. Why can't we get economic conservatism AND someone who errs on the side of KEEPING freedoms rather than eliminating them? Politcs and "religion" just don't mix. Politics is and should always be about the bottom line only...the ECONOMIC bottom line. Taxes should be low. Services should be fairly minimal. Necessary programs (i.e. defense) should be funded. Regulation should be fairly restrained. These things all benefit the bottom line. And at the end of the day, legal abortion, gay marriage and other social issues du jour just do not change my paycheck any. Therefore they are OK. This is a free country and as many things as possible ought to remain that way.

 

That's your point--that abortion is not that important an issue? But did you start this thread by saying McCain's abortion stance sealed your vote?

 

Take a deep breath. Collect your thoughts. Try again.

 

McCain is pro-choice and would like to send the abortion question back to states to decide. I disagree but think there are more pressing matters. So, I am sure, does McCain. Obama won't answer conception/life questions because "it's above his pay grade." That's annoyingly evasive, but I still don't care.

[DC Tom]

ok, I hear that, didn't know

 

Not infrequently it costs more to convict, too. Varies state to state, but a capital punhsiment sentence frequently requires an even higher burden of proof and/or an additional sentencing hearing.

 

I have no problem with the death penalty in principle - some people simply are too dangerous, damaged, or outright predatory to live in any society, period. (Jeffrey Dahmer springs most immediately to mind). But a fiscal argument doesn't wouldn't support it, unless you want to roll back the clock to the stereotypical (and somewhat fictional) Old West style "Hang 'Em High" justice.

[Boatdrinks]

Maybe McCain should've just said "present" when asked that question...

:censored: :censored:

[Boatdrinks]

That's your point--that abortion is not that important an issue? But did you start this thread by saying McCain's abortion stance sealed your vote?

 

Take a deep breath. Collect your thoughts. Try again.

 

 

Mmm. Nice try, but how about reading the rest of the thread? It sealed it because it exposes one as a religious zealot bent on restricting freedoms in general. If you can't grow a pair and not pander to evangelicals, you can't be Prez as far as I'm concerned. It's not that abortion is a pressing issue, just that the stance reveals a certain psychotic state of mind that is highly dangerous.

[Chilly]

Mmm. Nice try, but how about reading the rest of the thread? It sealed it because it exposes one as a religious zealot bent on restricting freedoms in general. If you can't grow a pair and not pander to evangelicals, you can't be Prez as far as I'm concerned. It's not that abortion is a pressing issue, just that the stance reveals a certain psychotic state of mind that is highly dangerous.

 

So who the Republicans pander to is more dangerous than who the Dems pander to?

[Wacka]

What about the baby's right to be born?

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Not infrequently it costs more to convict, too. Varies state to state, but a capital punhsiment sentence frequently requires an even higher burden of proof and/or an additional sentencing hearing.

 

I have no problem with the death penalty in principle - some people simply are too dangerous, damaged, or outright predatory to live in any society, period. (Jeffrey Dahmer springs most immediately to mind). But a fiscal argument doesn't wouldn't support it, unless you want to roll back the clock to the stereotypical (and somewhat fictional) Old West style "Hang 'Em High" justice.

yes, that totally makes sense. I was thinking of a 20 year life sentence costing a lot more than death row for 5 years, but sounds like it's all in the court costs.

[John Adams]

Mmm. Nice try, but how about reading the rest of the thread? It sealed it because it exposes one as a religious zealot bent on restricting freedoms in general. If you can't grow a pair and not pander to evangelicals, you can't be Prez as far as I'm concerned. It's not that abortion is a pressing issue, just that the stance reveals a certain psychotic state of mind that is highly dangerous.

 

Again, you're prioritizing that issue above others. Obama/Biden want to take your money if you're smart/productive enough to make more money. That's theft. They want to grow more government--which result in more debt and more taxes. That's also theft. For me, that's a bigger issue than abortion.

 

McCain believes abortion is wrong--it's not pandering as much as stating his belief. He's going to state those beliefs because it's important to a certain voting block. Obama panders to the religious when he talks about his faith.

 

By the way, there's a WSJ article today on how the Democratic Convention is highlighting religion and faith--trying to show how it's a God-fearing party.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219621246...ays_us_page_one

[Wacka]

They better fear god because they are all going to hell!

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

They better fear god because they are all going to hell!

Wacka, are you God? ... remember if you are not, "Thou Shall Not Judge"

 

Only God can make that decision.

 

I am not going to argue your previous point, I don't know, I am not God but I would tend to agree with you.

[KD in CA]

For OBAMA.... " At the moment of conception". He sold himself to the evangelicals like a two dollar whore. Add to that the fact that he wants a back door income tax increase on anyone who has an employer paid health insurance policy worth a damn, and it's Obama all the way. That whole meeting with "Pastor Rick " or whatever that idiot calls himself was a joke. Religious test for office, anyone? I liked Obama's answer to that ridiculous question, though. It was essentially like saying "It's out of my area" and is best left to the INDIVIDUAL to decide. Some people get uncomfortable with that though, they need a "guiding light" or something...

 

Yeah, I'm sure you were really leaning McCain until that speech. And JK-molton was a big Bush supporter until Katrina.

 

 

But I still don't understand your post since McCain and Obama were apparently not answering the same question (or Obama was ducking it). What was the context of the "at the moment of conception" comment? Did McCain say abortion should be outlawed?

 

It's a basic fact of human physiology that life begins at conception. That is independent of whether or not you believe people should have the right to terminate their pregnancies. I for one don't want the government butting into such personal decisions. If you don't want your own kid, that's up to you.

[olivier in france]

They better fear god because they are all going to hell!

 

if Hell is free of religious wackos, it sure will be a better place to pass eternity than Paradise!

[Wacka]

Wacka, are you God? ... remember if you are not, "Thou Shall Not Judge"

 

Only God can make that decision.

 

I am not going to argue your previous point, I don't know, I am not God but I would tend to agree with you.

 

See the smiley?- I was joking. They did have a twister near Denver yesterday or this AM - I just saw it on the morning news. Maybe god is trying to tell them something!

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

See the smiley?- I was joking. They did have a twister near Denver yesterday or this AM - I just saw it on the morning news. Maybe god is trying to tell them something!

Ok, got the smiley.... Honestly, not sure God cares that much about either convention, kinda like the football player pointing at the sky after a good catch. What is more important is what is in his or her soul.

[Chef Jim]

From my wife today:

 

an e-mail from Ireland

An email from Ireland to all of their brethren in the States...a point to ponder despite your political affiliation:

 

'We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you people are even bothering to hold an election in the United States

 

On one side, you had a pants wearing female lawyer, married to another lawyer who can't seem to keep his pants on, who just lost a long and heated primary against a lawyer, who goes to the wrong church, who is married to yet another lawyer, who doesn't even like the country her husband wants to run !

 

Now...On the other side, you have a nice old war hero whose name starts with the appropriate 'Mc' terminology, married to a good looking younger woman who owns a beer distributorship !!

 

What in God's name are ya lads thinkin over in the colonies !

 

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

From my wife today:

 

an e-mail from Ireland

An email from Ireland to all of their brethren in the States...a point to ponder despite your political affiliation:

 

'We, in Ireland , can't figure out why you people are even bothering to hold an election in the United States

 

On one side, you had a pants wearing female lawyer, married to another lawyer who can't seem to keep his pants on, who just lost a long and heated primary against a lawyer, who goes to the wrong church, who is married to yet another lawyer, who doesn't even like the country her husband wants to run !

 

Now...On the other side, you have a nice old war hero whose name starts with the appropriate 'Mc' terminology, married to a good looking younger woman who owns a beer distributorship !!

 

What in God's name are ya lads thinkin over in the colonies !

 

great analogy!

[Albany,n.y.]

They better fear god because they are all going to hell!

There is no such thing as hell, it's a metaphor for the center of the earth. Hell is not even recognized by all religions.

[Wacka]

There is no such thing as hell, it's a metaphor for the center of the earth. Hell is not even recognized by all religions.

 

Lighten up Francis. See post #33.

[/dev/null]

See the smiley?- I was joking. They did have a twister near Denver yesterday or this AM - I just saw it on the morning news. Maybe god is trying to tell them something!

 

And there's a hurricane pathing towards New Orleans on the eve of the Republican convention

[Wacka]

I saw where it was yesterday. It's over Haiti and was breaking up. It could go anywhere, even up FL again.

[olivier in france]

I saw where it was yesterday. It's over Haiti and was breaking up. It could go anywhere, even up FL again.

 

 

After all the critics made to the Bush administration after Katrina, it'd be ironic to see the rep convention affected by a new hurricane on NO....