Ned Flanders Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 NFL Films taking shots This is truly sad...NFL Films is why I love the NFL...the Pat Summerall/Tom Brookshier highlights show which featured Facenda and the great music, was a "can't miss" show at my house growing up. I met Steve Sabol in 1995...I asked him why NFL Films didn't market the music more aggressively. He turned to his assistant and said "Get him a tape in the mail tomorrow." The tape arrived within days. Thing is, you can get NFL highlights 24/7...NFL Network is missing a great opportunity in not featuring these old highlights shows...linked article sez people (read 18-24 year olds) don't relate to this type of programing. I hope NFL Films can ride the storm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Hard to believe that we may be witnessing the passing of an era.. I love watching the 'Lost Episodes' features. The clarity rivals HD on some of them -even old AFL footage. I just don't buy the NFL being 'frugal' on this aspect.. Then again, I definately don't fit the 18-24 demographic.. Where's my bi-focals? Who took my walker?? Damn whippasnappa's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I read stories like this, and I am reminded that I should hate the NFL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patience Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I'm 18, and those shows appeal to me very much. Watching the old teams (70's Oilers & Steelers, 60's Packers, etc.) on NFL Films is very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Kraft and the league's other owners will discuss the Films layoffs, as well as the struggles of the 4-year-old NFL Network, next week at their annual March meeting in Palm Beach, Fla. The new regime taking charge of the NFL is disturbingly stupid. They want to take away revenue sharing that has made the league the competitive game it has become. IMO, that competitiveness is one of the biggest reasons for it's success. Every year some formerly bad team has a shot. Do the Pirates or Royals have a shot in baseball? They also are insistent on putting the NFL network on basic cable at the expense of millions of viewers who would bring in the $.70 per household and millions of dollars more in advertising revenue. They can't see the forest for the trees. They should let cable companies put it on a paid tier and then work to persuade them to put it on basic cable later. _________________________________________________________________ Kraft said the league had hoped the NFL Network would be in 75 million to 80 million homes already. Instead, it's in just 31 million. It lost another 4 million subscribers recently when Dish Network dropped NFLN from its "America's Top 100" package to its "America's Top 200" package. The "Top 100" package reaches an estimated 12 million Dish subscribers. The "Top 200" package reaches 8 million. "It's been frustrating," admitted Kraft, who also serves on the three-man operations committee that oversees the NFL Network. "But we have a long view of things. Over time, we'll find a way to get a resolution to this. One way or another, we'll do something that allows us to . . . we'll either do partnerships with media companies or partnerships with cable or something. We'll wind up getting the distribution we want." In addition to the low subscription numbers, there also are growing complaints around the league about the quality of the programming on the NFL Network. Two weeks ago, the league put out a release trumpeting the fact that the NFL Network, NFL Films and NFL.com received 15 sports Emmy nominations. But 14 of them, including for last year's well-received "America's Game: The Super Bowl Champions" series, were earned by Films and the other by NFL.com. Maybe they should run old episodes of "Charles in Charge" instead. _________________________________________________________________ But the people running NFL Network seem to view the history of the game the way high school sophomores do the history of the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution. "Everything about the network is about what's happening right now," one Films employee said. "Some of the best stuff we've done over the years has been the historical stuff. But they just don't want to go there. They just don't think there's an audience for that. They think if people tune into the NFL Network and see black-and-white footage, they're on to the next channel." Bornstein has ended much of Films' signature programming, which included the long-running "NFL Films Presents" series on ESPN and Films' Emmy-winning "Lost Treasures" anthology. ______________________________________________________________ NFL Films spends most of its time assembling highlights packages that run on "Total Access" or putting together video streams for NFL.com. It's like having Picasso paint "Dogs Playing Poker." ______________________________________________________________ But the league's battle with Comcast and Time Warner has stunted the network's growth, and with it, the revenue it had hoped it would produce. According to league sources, the network isn't losing money, but it's not making very much either. I wonder if a larger number of households and advertising revenue would help them out. Let's see, how could they get more viewers? Maybe make it available to a lot of people who can't get it now but not everyone they want. Hmmmm, that might work. I also wonder what the difference in advertising revenue vs. losing money if they don't charge a fee for the network works out. If they offered it free I'm sure cable companies would be more than happy to put it on a basic tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 _________________________________________________________________ But the people running NFL Network seem to view the history of the game the way high school sophomores do the history of the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution. "Everything about the network is about what's happening right now," one Films employee said. "Some of the best stuff we've done over the years has been the historical stuff. But they just don't want to go there. They just don't think there's an audience for that. They think if people tune into the NFL Network and see black-and-white footage, they're on to the next channel." Bornstein has ended much of Films' signature programming, which included the long-running "NFL Films Presents" series on ESPN and Films' Emmy-winning "Lost Treasures" anthology. That is pretty much correct. There is an extremely devoted segment of the population who loves that stuff, but all you have to do is look at this board to see that the majority of posters couldn't care less about anything that happened prior to about 2000. Hence, all of the "Classic" games they have been playing have been 2003 or later, except for the Bills-Oilers playoff in 1992. There are ways to view films of old games (not from NFL Films, since they refuse to open their vaults ), but it is not the easiest thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Facenda did the 1980 Bills highlight film...his best line, and it still sends shivers up my old, feeble spine: "Joe Cribbs was a working man, in a working man's town." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 That is pretty much correct. There is an extremely devoted segment of the population who loves that stuff, but all you have to do is look at this board to see that the majority of posters couldn't care less about anything that happened prior to about 2000. Hence, all of the "Classic" games they have been playing have been 2003 or later, except for the Bills-Oilers playoff in 1992. There are ways to view films of old games (not from NFL Films, since they refuse to open their vaults ), but it is not the easiest thing to do. That is pretty sad, but true. I remember when the NFL Network launched (I didn't get it), and immediately, all of the NFL Films programming that ESPN Classic used to show during the offseason disappeared....I was pretty bummed. I remember seeing the Bills team highlight films from 1965, 1966 and 1969...that stuff was priceless to me. Though I was born in 1965, my cognisent Bills memories don't start until around 1973, when everyone was in love with the Juice. I love being able to see footage of those old 1960's teams. Strangely, NFL films never really made much of that stuff available to the public, but I know they have released box set DVD's of the history of the Packers, Cowboys, Steelers, Eagles and Broncos...no Bills yet...sadly, it doesn't sound like there ever will be. Incidently, a good friend ( a huge Bears fan) got the entire 1985 Bears NFL season on DVD (actually it is 15 games from that season, in their entirety, as they were broadcast- like the Bills/Olilers Comeback release), and it is put out by the NFL Network... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 The elimination of NFL Films would be awful, IMO. But, a reduction of 7% of the staff doesn't sound like "going out of business" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 The elimination of NFL Films would be awful, IMO. But, a reduction of 7% of the staff doesn't sound like "going out of business" to me. with all those reductions, they probably can get that Walsh guy and a few of his buddies on the cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 The elimination of NFL Films would be awful, IMO. But, a reduction of 7% of the staff doesn't sound like "going out of business" to me. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but, if they are reducing staff now, they are probably only going to eliminate more in the future...it sounds like the NFL has determined NFL films has outlived its' usefulness. Those guys, as we all know, don't have a lot of use for tradition, not like a lot of us fans do, if it comes with a price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Maybe I am reading too much into it, but, if they are reducing staff now, they are probably only going to eliminate more in the future...it sounds like the NFL has determined NFL films has outlived its' usefulness. Those guys, as we all know, don't have a lot of use for tradition, not like a lot of us fans do, if it comes with a price tag. I seriously doubt the NFL will totally kill off NFL Films. If they do, it's a crime. If 21 people represents 7.4%, that means they still have 260+ people left on staff. I can see the canceled HBO show representing 10-15 people and the rest, perhaps are due to some "belt tightening" or new technology...or a reduction in how much they plan to use NFL Films. Still, it's seems a far cry from a death knell, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I seriously doubt the NFL will totally kill off NFL Films. If they do, it's a crime. If 21 people represents 7.4%, that means they still have 260+ people left on staff. I can see the canceled HBO show representing 10-15 people and the rest, perhaps are due to some "belt tightening" or new technology...or a reduction in how much they plan to use NFL Films. Still, it's seems a far cry from a death knell, IMO. Maybe you are right, but they also said they cancelled the "NFL Presents..." show in ESPN...ESPN doesn't really show any of their stuff any more. Soon, you will only be able to see the productions on the NFL Network, which, not everyone has...I wonder what this means for the video yearbooks....I think NFL films still does (and I have heard are planning more) of the HBO show "Hard Knocks"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Seems odd to me.... with the emergence of the NFL Network, you'd think they'd be busier than ever at NFL Films generating all sorts of original programming for their network. But what happens, they start cutting back and continue to show the same 2 or 3 shows 10 times a day. I just don't get it. But, I've noticed that's the trend in all of TV. Turn on USA Network or TNT or A&E or anything and it's like they have about 4 hours of programming that they put on a loop and repeat all day long. Or they show Law and Order from noon till midnight nonstop. What ever happened to actual programming and variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 That is pretty sad, but true. I remember when the NFL Network launched (I didn't get it), and immediately, all of the NFL Films programming that ESPN Classic used to show during the offseason disappeared....I was pretty bummed. I remember seeing the Bills team highlight films from 1965, 1966 and 1969...that stuff was priceless to me. Though I was born in 1965, my cognisent Bills memories don't start until around 1973, when everyone was in love with the Juice. I love being able to see footage of those old 1960's teams. Strangely, NFL films never really made much of that stuff available to the public, but I know they have released box set DVD's of the history of the Packers, Cowboys, Steelers, Eagles and Broncos...no Bills yet...sadly, it doesn't sound like there ever will be. Incidently, a good friend ( a huge Bears fan) got the entire 1985 Bears NFL season on DVD (actually it is 15 games from that season, in their entirety, as they were broadcast- like the Bills/Olilers Comeback release), and it is put out by the NFL Network... There are only a couple of ways to get that kind of stuff. First, get friendly with your local football historian. Sometimes, they have that kind of stuff in their personal archives. If not, they might know someone who does. Next, get friendly with the people at the Hall of Fame Research Library. They have a lot of game films there. Unfortunately, you are probably not going to see any historical stuff coming out of NFL Films in the near future. You could see the trend, as you mentioned, since ESPN Classic was taken off the air and replaced with NFL Network. NFL Network's version of "Classic" is anything around 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I don't know about anyone else, but if I ever get my act together enough to get into heaven and God's voice isn't that of John Facenda, I'll be deeply disappointed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Unfortunately, you are probably not going to see any historical stuff coming out of NFL Films in the near future. You could see the trend, as you mentioned, since ESPN Classic was taken off the air and replaced with NFL Network. NFL Network's version of "Classic" is anything around 2004. That's probably true. But, the stuff that NFL films produces in the present will be fine historical footage in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 That's probably true. But, the stuff that NFL films produces in the present will be fine historical footage in the future. Agreed, if they let anybody look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Indablanc Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 "The shots that people associate with Films, those long, beautiful, super slo-mo shots of a spiraling football, the NFL Network people hate that," said a league executive familiar with the situation. "It's too slow for them." Yeah, I much prefer the "sonic the hedgehog" technique used by the networks during halftime highlights. Real professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 "The shots that people associate with Films, those long, beautiful, super slo-mo shots of a spiraling football, the NFL Network people hate that," said a league executive familiar with the situation. "It's too slow for them." Yeah, I much prefer the "sonic the hedgehog" technique used by the networks during halftime highlights. Real professional. Just dumb it all down for Generation Y (or Z or whatever late teens and 20 somethings call themselves these days), he says in his best Grandpa Simpson impersonation..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikturk Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Was it a dream I had, or wasn't there an IBM commercial that said one day we would be able to access all the NFL plays on our computer - show me video of all the 3 and 19 plays the bills had between 2003-2006 when playing against a team with a better record. - Kind of a Youtube of every down in every game, in all of NFL films history. Wouldn't that be cool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Was it a dream I had, or wasn't there an IBM commercial that said one day we would be able to access all the NFL plays on our computer - show me video of all the 3 and 19 plays the bills had between 2003-2006 when playing against a team with a better record. - Kind of a Youtube of every down in every game, in all of NFL films history. Wouldn't that be cool? that's actually something worth paying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 That is pretty sad, but true. I remember when the NFL Network launched (I didn't get it), and immediately, all of the NFL Films programming that ESPN Classic used to show during the offseason disappeared....I was pretty bummed. I remember seeing the Bills team highlight films from 1965, 1966 and 1969...that stuff was priceless to me. Though I was born in 1965, my cognisent Bills memories don't start until around 1973, when everyone was in love with the Juice. I love being able to see footage of those old 1960's teams. Strangely, NFL films never really made much of that stuff available to the public, but I know they have released box set DVD's of the history of the Packers, Cowboys, Steelers, Eagles and Broncos...no Bills yet...sadly, it doesn't sound like there ever will be. Incidently, a good friend ( a huge Bears fan) got the entire 1985 Bears NFL season on DVD (actually it is 15 games from that season, in their entirety, as they were broadcast- like the Bills/Olilers Comeback release), and it is put out by the NFL Network... I have a friend who is a longtime employee at MTV and I asked her a few years back about why they never seem to show any videos, even on MTV2. Wasn't that the entire point of the network? Her response: as a rule, videos were the least watched stuff on MTV. Hence their reliance on absolute crap shows (not that most videos aren't crap, but still ...). The NFL's logic is very similar. They're competing with ESPN. In my opinion, ESPN is a pox upon the American televisual landscape, but it attracts tons of eyeballs (including me occasionally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 NFL Films taking shots This is truly sad...NFL Films is why I love the NFL...the Pat Summerall/Tom Brookshier highlights show which featured Facenda and the great music, was a "can't miss" show at my house growing up. I met Steve Sabol in 1995...I asked him why NFL Films didn't market the music more aggressively. He turned to his assistant and said "Get him a tape in the mail tomorrow." The tape arrived within days. Thing is, you can get NFL highlights 24/7...NFL Network is missing a great opportunity in not featuring these old highlights shows...linked article sez people (read 18-24 year olds) don't relate to this type of programing. I hope NFL Films can ride the storm out. That's just sad. NFL Films is one of the best football shows out there. It would be an absolute disgrace to the NFL to see it discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I have a friend who is a longtime employee at MTV and I asked her a few years back about why they never seem to show any videos, even on MTV2. Wasn't that the entire point of the network? Her response: as a rule, videos were the least watched stuff on MTV. Hence their reliance on absolute crap shows (not that most videos aren't crap, but still ...). The NFL's logic is very similar. They're competing with ESPN. In my opinion, ESPN is a pox upon the American televisual landscape, but it attracts tons of eyeballs (including me occasionally). I just don't get that about MTV. So they launch a network that revolutionizes the music industry and becomes hugely popular with an entire generation growing up saying, "I want my MTV!". How did they do that... by showing music videos, nonstop. Yet, now mysteriously, no one wants to watch videos anymore? I don't buy it. And that's the problem with the NFL Network, they shouldn't be competing with ESPN. They should be blazing a different trail and giving viewers something better than ESPN. If I want to watch ESPN, why would I turn on the NFL Network? But, that's a larger problem in corporate America. No one has any balls and they try to copy everyone else, just giving everyone the same old bland product, but at a high profit. A few years ago, NFL Network showed all sorts of classic games. It was one of the things that really got me excited about DirecTV. My father-in-law had it and I was like a junkie watchin those old games. But, in just a couple of years, literally, those games are all but gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Was it a dream I had, or wasn't there an IBM commercial that said one day we would be able to access all the NFL plays on our computer - show me video of all the 3 and 19 plays the bills had between 2003-2006 when playing against a team with a better record. - Kind of a Youtube of every down in every game, in all of NFL films history. Wouldn't that be cool? I remember that commercial. I don't think we'll see this on NFL network. This is something we'll see on the computer like you said. For a fee. And I'm fine with that. And then they'll put it on DVDs. And that will be the best selling ones on the computer. This also could fail. I just want NFL to replay more of the old classic games like their Superbowl classic games. And did you notice that the Superbowl Classic games are running against the Arena Football on ESPN. Monday's and Saturdays. They've also showed the Bills-Oilers game last week. And Colts-Pats Championship from the Colts Superbowl year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I just don't get that about MTV. So they launch a network that revolutionizes the music industry and becomes hugely popular with an entire generation growing up saying, "I want my MTV!". How did they do that... by showing music videos, nonstop. Yet, now mysteriously, no one wants to watch videos anymore? I don't buy it. And that's the problem with the NFL Network, they shouldn't be competing with ESPN. They should be blazing a different trail and giving viewers something better than ESPN. If I want to watch ESPN, why would I turn on the NFL Network? But, that's a larger problem in corporate America. No one has any balls and they try to copy everyone else, just giving everyone the same old bland product, but at a high profit. A few years ago, NFL Network showed all sorts of classic games. It was one of the things that really got me excited about DirecTV. My father-in-law had it and I was like a junkie watchin those old games. But, in just a couple of years, literally, those games are all but gone. I taped all of those classic games from a few years ago. I don't know why they can't replay more now. But it seems they don't want to. They want to get paid for it. See above. I think I would pay for it but I don't think the average person would. It could fail. I have an idea that they could replay all Monday night football games. Start from the first Monday night game and replay them all in order. It could be called "Classic Monday Night". And they could have programming for a long time. But I doubt they would do it. It seems the NFL Network is only about what's happening right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I remember that commercial. I don't think we'll see this on NFL network. This is something we'll see on the computer like you said. For a fee. And I'm fine with that. And then they'll put it on DVDs. And that will be the best selling ones on the computer. This also could fail. I just want NFL to replay more of the old classic games like their Superbowl classic games. And did you notice that the Superbowl Classic games are running against the Arena Football on ESPN. Monday's and Saturdays. They've also showed the Bills-Oilers game last week. And Colts-Pats Championship from the Colts Superbowl year. To me, it's would be a successful service, if all of the footage was properly coded and available to be accessed any way the user wanted it, and on the fly. It would be terrific for analysis, coaching, etc. If you could pull up a teams 3rd down plays, this season...then, while watching you see a WR screen, you may immediately want to see all that team's WR screens. Something looks odd about the way they run it, so you decide to look at all the WR screens run this season, to see what's what...you get the picture. Having that kind of access to the video (which should all be digitized by now) would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I just don't get that about MTV. So they launch a network that revolutionizes the music industry and becomes hugely popular with an entire generation growing up saying, "I want my MTV!". How did they do that... by showing music videos, nonstop. Yet, now mysteriously, no one wants to watch videos anymore? I don't buy it. And that's the problem with the NFL Network, they shouldn't be competing with ESPN. They should be blazing a different trail and giving viewers something better than ESPN. If I want to watch ESPN, why would I turn on the NFL Network? But, that's a larger problem in corporate America. No one has any balls and they try to copy everyone else, just giving everyone the same old bland product, but at a high profit. A few years ago, NFL Network showed all sorts of classic games. It was one of the things that really got me excited about DirecTV. My father-in-law had it and I was like a junkie watchin those old games. But, in just a couple of years, literally, those games are all but gone. Generational interests change. The kids today just don't like videos as much as the other crap programming MTV delivers. Beavis and Butthead were much better than videos but MTV has yet to find something as good as Beavis and Butthead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Generational interests change. The kids today just don't like videos as much as the other crap programming MTV delivers. Beavis and Butthead were much better than videos but MTV has yet to find something as good as Beavis and Butthead. I would disagree with that statement. I never really saw the appeal of that show. But, then again, I've never really liked The Simpsons either. Maybe, I'm just the nut. All I say.. is if MTV wants to show crap shows; that's fine. But they should change their name to CTV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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