I still don't like the Whitner and McCargo picks

[DE Bills Fan]

I think the Bills could've traded the 8th pick and still gotten Whitner. Having Leinart drop into their laps....he was a tradable commodity. I know that they said Detroit might pick Whitner, but so what? They could've had Arizona's pick plus a 2nd or 3rd. It still drives me nuts. And Whitner got zero votes for defensive rookie of the year.

 

McCargo? Who the hell knows? He was not playing like a first rounder, let alone a first rounder worth giving up what they did to move up and get him. I hope he pans out. Marv gets my full support for the rest of the draft. I thought on draft day that Youboty and Simpson were steals. Youboty would've been a lot better had he not spent a month away from camp. The clubs loyalty to Youboty should pay dividends down the road. They could've been really tough on the kid. If he turns out to be a player, they should be able to keep him without any problem.

 

Remember, Marv drafted Howard Ballard in the 12th, and look how that panned out.

You bring up great points. I think the Bills draft was good this year, but it could have been great had Levy made some stronger moves. Drafting Whittner was a mistake. We needed up front help and the jury is still out on McCargo. We could have gotten a game changing player at #8. I still think Levy did not take advantage of the opportunity he had.

[Alaska Darin]

We could have gotten a game changing player at #8. I still think Levy did not take advantage of the opportunity he had.

Who? Which player drafted after Whitner would you have picked? There were FOUR linemen drafted before our 2nd selection. Ngata, Bunkley, Hali, and Joseph. Which of those guys do you really want?

[DrDawkinstein]

Whitner and McCargo are picks your second guessing, but Youbouty, who has yet to start was still considered a steal?

 

 

very good observation

[Cornerville]

I think the Bills could've traded the 8th pick and still gotten Whitner. Having Leinart drop into their laps....he was a tradable commodity. I know that they said Detroit might pick Whitner, but so what? They could've had Arizona's pick plus a 2nd or 3rd. It still drives me nuts. And Whitner got zero votes for defensive rookie of the year.

 

McCargo? Who the hell knows? He was not playing like a first rounder, let alone a first rounder worth giving up what they did to move up and get him. I hope he pans out. Marv gets my full support for the rest of the draft. I thought on draft day that Youboty and Simpson were steals. Youboty would've been a lot better had he not spent a month away from camp. The clubs loyalty to Youboty should pay dividends down the road. They could've been really tough on the kid. If he turns out to be a player, they should be able to keep him without any problem.

 

Remember, Marv drafted Howard Ballard in the 12th, and look how that panned out.

 

 

Mort, is that you?

[tennesseeboy]

Who? Which player drafted after Whitner would you have picked? There were FOUR linemen drafted before our 2nd selection. Ngata, Bunkley, Hali, and Joseph. Which of those guys do you really want?

I'd have taken Ngata, but Whitner has proven a very worthy first round choice. Couple that with the other choices and I'm giving Marv and DJ an A on this draft.

[MRW]

I don't think that this is what he meant (although I had to read it again).

I THINK that he meant that when Leinart fell, the price of a #8 went up because quarterbacks traditionally go high in the first round. It made the pick more appealing to those who were after a qb.

I don't think that's true though, not with Cutler (originally typoed as Cutlet, heh) still on the board.

[2003Contenders]

Given the success that Marv and Co had with virtually the rest of the draft, you do have to wonder what they may have been able to do with an extra 2nd rounder -- and without giving up that 3rd to move up for McCargo.

 

The funny thing is that the pick that looked like the biggest steal at the time (AY in the 3rd) now looks like the biggest reach, given AY's relative lack of playing time in 2006. Of course, the verdict is still out on that pick just like it is on all of the others. For example, many of our Day 2 picks were rushed into duty by necessity. Does that necessarily mean that they were great picks? Maybe. Maybe not. I think back to the 2001 draft, which was TD's first (and best) draft for us. There were a number of players that were rushed into duty that year too. Some of them have gone onto have productive careers (Schobel, Nate, Travis, Jennings), while others (Edwards, Spoon) haven't.

 

Mort -- who was still bemoaning the departure of TD -- always claimed that there was confusion in the Bills War Room on draft day. I'm not sure where he would have received this tidbit -- and none of us will ever know if this was indeed true. Perhaps there was some indecision on the part of the front office regarding the trade offers. Maybe they spent too much time analyzing what players would be left, if they decided to move down 6-7 spots, as the Eagles and Broncos were both supposedly offering 2nd round picks to move up. I think it is fair to assess that DW would have probably been gone by 14 or 15 if the Bills had pulled the trigger on the trade. Thus, maybe management was guilty of being overly fond of DW in their refusal trade down. Yet, I did not hear criticism at the time of the Raiders and Lions -- both of whom probably had similar trade offers on the table and also refused to trade down to acquire more picks.

 

Given that Whitner was a starter from day one -- and played quite well as a rookie (Note that I don't remember him getting beat over the top very often in the passing game, and he helped the defense wind up with a top 10 rating against the pass.) -- it is hard to really dislike that pick. The only other player taken in that range, who could have conceivably been an upgrade (to this point) would have been Ngata. We know that there was a considerable amount of disagreement amongst the coaches and front office people about whether or not Ngata was a good fit. There was some perception heading into the draft that he was known to take plays off -- and even so, he was NOT a 3-down lineman.

 

I have always felt that Whitner was a consensus selection -- that is a pick that EVERYONE on the staff was on board with and a low-risk selection at that. From that perspective -- and considering the overall "We Are Family" vibe that was to be a season-long motif, I think the Whitner pick may have been every bit as much of a symbolic move as it was a move to acquire an impact player. That is something that was lost on most of the pundits...

 

Even those who thought the team "reached" for Whitner at the time, acknowledged that he was a pretty good player that was definitely a first round talent. However, the McCargo selection was greeted with outright sneers at the time, as some draftniks (like Kiper) had him rated as a 3rd rounder. I would compare the move to get him to what TD did back in 2002 to get Ryan Denney. At the time, our spies had the intel that the Steelers were all set to draft Denney at the end of the second round. Instead, TD moved up from the 3rd to swipe him right from under their noses. Maybe it wasn't in our best interest to move up like that, but if the coaches and front office really wanted him, that's what they were going to have to do. The same thing happened last year with McCargo. The Bills caught wind that the Giants were prepared to draft him at the end of the 1st round, so if the Bills wanted him they were going to have to move up to get him.

 

Obviously the verdict is still out on McCargo; we have to hope and pray that he isn't injury prone, for example. Obviously, DT was a need -- and the draft was dangerously thin at that position in 2006. (Note that there was a major gap between the McCargo pick and when the next DT was taken.) We will not know for some time whether Kiper's assessment of McCargo as a 3rd rounder was right on or not; however, McCargo was something of a late riser. Lenny P had just written an article days before suggesting that he could go as early as the 1st round. If Marv, Modrak or whomever made that call turns out to be correct, then adding a single big body (which should be available in free agency or the draft, where DTs appear to be more plentiful this year) should shore up the interior for years to come.

 

All in all, we headed into the 2006 draft with so many holes to fill that the draft could have taken any direction imaginable. Thanks partly to some nice choices in that draft, we are in much better shape heading into 2007. Thus, I expect this draft to be far more focused than was last year's.

[Orton's Arm]

wow. youre STILL second guessing the whitner pick? ok....

What makes the pick frustrating is that the Bills could have traded down and drafted Mangold. Mangold is well on his way to being one of the best centers in the league, and would have been an excellent building block toward creating a dominating offensive line. Plus the Bills would have had an additional second round pick.

 

Instead we used the 8th overall pick on a player who (thus far) has been a good but not special strong safety. If Whitner becomes the next Ronnie Lott--or even the next Ed Reed--the pick will look a lot stronger than it does right now. But Whitner will have to play very, very well to bring the team as much benefit as Mangold alone would have; let alone Mangold plus a second round pick.

[DrDawkinstein]

coulda, shoulda, if, if, if

 

thats all i see in this thread.

[Alaska Darin]

I'd like to know how any of you evaluates Whitner. Really. Explain it in great detail. I need a good laugh.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I'd like to know how any of you evaluates Whitner. Really. Explain it in great detail. I need a good laugh.

"I've heard of him!"

[tennesseeboy]

I'd like to know how any of you evaluates Whitner. Really. Explain it in great detail. I need a good laugh.

Well...to start with he made the team. He started from the first game. We got rid of a pretty good starting safety to put him on the field. He played well enough to the defensive rookie of the month for September (I believe..could be wrong on this.) and his play all season was outstanding. Other than that he was nothing special!

[jimmyv.]

I think the Bills could've traded the 8th pick and still gotten Whitner. Having Leinart drop into their laps....he was a tradable commodity. I know that they said Detroit might pick Whitner, but so what? They could've had Arizona's pick plus a 2nd or 3rd. It still drives me nuts. And Whitner got zero votes for defensive rookie of the year.

 

McCargo? Who the hell knows? He was not playing like a first rounder, let alone a first rounder worth giving up what they did to move up and get him. I hope he pans out. Marv gets my full support for the rest of the draft. I thought on draft day that Youboty and Simpson were steals. Youboty would've been a lot better had he not spent a month away from camp. The clubs loyalty to Youboty should pay dividends down the road. They could've been really tough on the kid. If he turns out to be a player, they should be able to keep him without any problem.

 

Remember, Marv drafted Howard Ballard in the 12th, and look how that panned out.

 

I agree with you. Ngata was the sensible pick, considering the Bills' needs; you never pass on a big DT (see R. Seymour, V. Wilfork-NE, the two big DTs with Jags, DT with Tenn., notwithstanding his current season's problems). Marv and co. made huge error in judgment, to get a DB who could have been obtained with 3rd round pick- see Pittsburgh and A. Smith from 'cuse- Then to compound that error, they take McCargo, 'cause he was the "3rd best rated DT in draft". Why not take the best in Ngata when you had the chance? You're right the rest of draft was ok, but jury is still out as to how good they actually are.

[John from Riverside]

I absolutely think this draft deserves an A.....

 

Think about how many rookies we had playing starting positions on this team......especially later round ones.....

 

Whitner and Simpson were the only rookie Safety tandem in the league

 

McCargo got hurt when it looked like he was starting to make a contribution......DT is a difficult position to make a impact as a rookie......and we had one that was doing it....I will wait and see on McCargo (I still want another DT)

 

Yobuty is the only pick that really concerns me.....there was another DB in the playoffs (Comradre?) that was rated BEHIND Yobuty and he was making plays.......

[Bill from NYC]

I'd like to know how any of you evaluates Whitner. Really. Explain it in great detail. I need a good laugh.

 

Do you think he was worth a #8? Do you think it would have been OK to try to build a football team with a 1st, 2 2nds, and 2 early 3rds in a draft which was loaded with talented players?

Tell us. We ALL need a good laugh.

[BoondckCL]

I agree with you. Ngata was the sensible pick, considering the Bills' needs; you never pass on a big DT (see R. Seymour, V. Wilfork-NE, the two big DTs with Jags, DT with Tenn., notwithstanding his current season's problems). Marv and co. made huge error in judgment, to get a DB who could have been obtained with 3rd round pick- see Pittsburgh and A. Smith from 'cuse- Then to compound that error, they take McCargo, 'cause he was the "3rd best rated DT in draft". Why not take the best in Ngata when you had the chance? You're right the rest of draft was ok, but jury is still out as to how good they actually are.

 

Ahh, but what you are missing is that Seymour went to Georgia, Wilfork went to Miami, Marcus Stroud went to Georgia, and John Henderson went to Tennessee. Ngata went to Hawaii. Not quite the same resume as the afformentioned DT's in this thread. Nuff said.

[JinVA]

Ahh, but what you are missing is that Seymour went to Georgia, Wilfork went to Miami, Marcus Stroud went to Georgia, and John Henderson went to Tennessee. Ngata went to Hawaii. Not quite the same resume as the afformentioned DT's in this thread. Nuff said.

Ngata went to Oregon.

[BoondckCL]

Wow, i went retarded for a moment. You are correct now that you say it. Maybe i thought Hawaii because of his heritage, or maybe it is just that i don't care. I Still take the SEC over the PAC 10, any day of the week.

[DrDawkinstein]

Do you think he was worth a #8? Do you think it would have been OK to try to build a football team with a 1st, 2 2nds, and 2 early 3rds in a draft which was loaded with talented players?

Tell us. We ALL need a good laugh.

 

yes he was worth a number 8 pick. michael huff was a #7 and what did he do this year? not sayin we should compare or draft to the raiders, but no one had a problem with Huff going 7 because he was a name. Huff had 25 less tackles and no INTs this year. It's not Marv's or Donte's fault that some people didnt do enough draft research and had never heard of whitner before.

 

and im happy with the production we got out of our rookies. the draft is a crap shoot whether you have 1 pick or 15. we did well with what we had, thats all i can ask.

[TC in St. Louis]

I think the best part about this thread this far is this image that i have built up in my mind about TC in STL.

 

I am getting this image of a postal worker, kind of a quiet guy who rarely socializes with people in a face to face interaction. I can imagine him driving his mail truck yesterday in the sh------- whether we have all had, quietly getting more frustrated by the minute with the terrible conditions. Then I imagine out of no where, detonation occurs when he screams out in the mail truck and out of no where says "Dammit Marv, why didn't you trade down and get Whitner.

 

It's obviously something that has been boiling over for a while now. The only thing left that he has to do is get a MAC 11 and finish the tasks that the dog has ordered him to do.

 

Hey I waited till the season was over, had a few drinks in me, and sat down at the computer. I'm glad we've got Marv in charge, instead of a postal worker from Missouri. But we had Leinart in our laps and chose to take Whitner.

 

A few years ago the Rams had the 31st pick in the 1st round, and Washington next pick. I think everybody in the world knew that Washington wanted Patrick Ramsey. The Rams could've called them and picked up a 3rd or 4th round pick, just by threatening to draft Ramsey. They instead drafted linebacker Robert Thomas of UCLA, and Washington took Ramsey.

 

Your description of me is pretty much accurate. I get the mail every day, I read it. I am originally from Sanborn, NY so I know how to drive in any condition, including cow manure. The morons down here drive like idiots. I listen to sports radio, and I still love the Bills more than any other team in sports. My dog does not talk to me, but she did order me a Red Ryder BB gun for Christmas. She heard rumors about it on the internets.